Shop Comfort Note, and a lighting question

[Guest]

I walked outside. Briefly, it’s like Satan’s armpit out there. Screw it, like Mad Dogs and Englishmen I may not go out in the noonday sun locally again ‘til October. Noel Coward or Joe Cocker, Leon Russell if you prefer.

Retreating back to the shop office, sitting there thinking about putting finally the window AC unit in. As the beads of sweat ran down my neck. Think man, think.

Five minutes to install the window AC unit, all the screw holes are already there. The concrete shop floor was doing no favors to the humidity level, and my fluorescent lights have lately been reluctant to come on.

I’m watching a thermometer/hygrometer on the shop wall; the temperature and humidity have each dropped 5 degrees in minutes, but I’m still waiting for two sets of fluorescents to come on.

Which leads to the lighting question. Those fluorescents are 4’ T-12’s. Can I replace them with LED tubes using the same fixtures?

It could be surface of the sun bright in the shop going all LED, there are six dual tube fluorescent fixtures on the ceiling (and some LED task lights over the bench). Can I mix the T-12’s and LED’s, putting pairs in separate fixtures?

I could Google that, but suspect I would be as confused as ever.

 

[dogbrain]

Mike. You can never have enough light in a shop. I have replaced fluorescent with led. One worked and one didn't for some reason. The fixtures are different manufacturers but I didn't look into the actual difference. Mark

 

[Alan Gage]

We've retrofitted dozens of fluorescent (T-8 and T-12) to LED in our repair shop. Big difference. Best part is the ballast is removed (or at least wired around) in the process and we found them to often fail before the fluorescent bulbs.

Do a little googling and I think you'll find your answers. Are you T-12's single pin? If that's the case I think you'll have to buy new tombstones and maybe the brackets they fit in. We had to do that for quite a few of our lights. Maybe they make some now that work with the single pin, I'm not sure.

If you have the double pin you might be good to go by just popping in new bulbs and wiring around the ballast.

The concrete shop floor was doing no favors to the humidity level,

Not that you can do anything about it but insulating under the slab is the answer to that problem. The slab is in contact with the cool soil below and hot, humid air above, which isn't much different than your cold beer can and gives the same result, condensation.

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

When I built my shop a couple years ago I scrounged old fluorescent fixtures for free and converted them to LED. It worked great but I was surprised to see that buying the bulbs to retrofit the old fixtures wasn't much cheaper than buying a new LED fixture. There are also these alien looking LED bulbs that screw into a standard socket with very high output that people seem quite happy with. My dad bought some locally and loved them in his new shop. When the local supply ran out he bought some from Amazon and was disappointed with them. Not sure which brand either were.

Alan

 

[sailsman63]

I was around when a couple of electricians converted an entire auditorium to LED: You can get two different types of LED bulbs. One just drops in, using the existing ballast. The other, you need to wire around the ballast. Whichever you get, the packaging should have appropriate instructions. The ones that use the ballast are less efficient, and won't work if the ballast fails. The only advantage is that you can swap back to fluorescent if so desired. (but, why?)

 

[billconner]

I made my living as a lighting designer. Replace the fixtures. Probably require fewer for same illumination, but you may want just as many for minimizing shadows. More efficient and will last longer. Less work than rewiring existing fixtures. Many more options for better CRI and color temperature. 10 packs in the $125 range.

 

[Conk]

One of the best improvements I have made to my shop has been converting to LED lighting. I kept my existing two pin 4' fixtures and retrofitted to accommodate LED tubes. I would highly recommend bypassing the ballast should you elect to take that route. No reason to maintain them with direct wire LED's. People's preferences may vary but I like working under a minimum temperature of 5000K. We do not have many romantic dinners in the shop so the brighter white is preferable. I've been told 5000K can have a detrimental affect ones ability to discern color (not one of your strengths) but so far I see no distortion in the hue of my shop décor. Probably the best thing about my LED retrofit, besides being able to see, is the lack of flickering, no hum, less wattage, clear radio reception and I haven't changed a bulb or ballast in years.

 

[recped]

People's preferences may vary but I like working under a minimum temperature of 5000K. We do not have many romantic dinners in the shop so the brighter white is preferable. I've been told 5000K

They certainly do, I only use 5000k (mixed with warmer bulbs) for indoor product photography. For an actual work space I prefer 3000 or 3400k but anything warmer I would toss as useless for my eyes.

For me it's almost as much about output lumens as kelvin temperature, I like light on the warmer side but I want LOTS of it.

A couple of things to consider:

The light output and colour temperatures quoted by manufacturers isn't necessarily that accurate and worse not consistent. Last year I bought a 3 foot under cabinet fixture, liked it a lot, bought another a few weeks ago (exact same fixture/packaging), I like it too but it definitely has a slightly higher kelvin temp, can't say if it's the old, the new or both but something is not consistent in the measurement department.

 

[billconner]

For better color, look for a CRI of 90 or above. Color temperature is a personal preference. I like 3000k - roughly incandescent - but maybe a shop for canoes should be closer to 5000k - nearing daylight which is 6500k.

 

[Cruiser]

I converted my shop to LED just using the existing fluorescent fixtures as a starting point, removing the ballast and doing a simply rewire. I have 6, 4 tube fixtures so 24 new LED tubes.

This is what I bought for LED tubes: https://www.amazon.com/Hyperikon-Bulbs-Daylight-Ballast-Bypass/dp/B00SSNPGSC in the 4000k flavour

I measured the light intensity at my benchtop before and after the install and was surprised to see a 3 fold increase, that was with a phone app, which likely isn't deadly accurate, but I am fairly confident it is close, the shop is really bright.

They have been in for several years now and I haven't had a single failure.

I will mention a thought on LED vs Fluorescent in the shop concerning any finish work like varnishing. Originally (fluorescent) when varnishing I needed to make a plastic tent, wet down etc to get a clean finish .... with the LEDs I have noticed a sudden drop in the "stuff" that drops out on the varnish finish. So much so that I don't tent anymore or wet down .... if I leave the shop undisturbed for a couple hours, I get a clean finish.

I am currently of the belief that the static the fluorescent bulbs generate attract and hold the dust, until you turn off the lights and then the dust is slowly released to sprinkle down, under the lights. Finishing under the LED bulbs seems to be much better for finishing IMO .... has anyone else noticed this?

As an aside, I also converted my plant grow bulbs, mixing 3000k and 6000k ... they are working great and no failures there either, same brand.

Overall, I would repeat the conversion in a heartbeat, it was a huge shop upgrade and not having to change a fluorescent tube every few months is nice as well.

Brian

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I don't have a shop, but when I remodeled a house I replaced fluorescent lights in the kitchen and basement with LEDs. I have no idea how the apprentice electrician wired them, but the lighting is much brighter and natural and the bulbs are supposed to last a very long time.

Fluorescent light has always been the pits. Weird colors, screws with photography, things always flickering or otherwise going wrong. It's a good riddance technology, in my atechnical opinion.

 

[billconner]

Well, like comparing a $300 canoe toa $3000 canoe. There us good florescent, but not in big box stores and not in builder spec homes.

 

[billconner]

Tried to correct my typos but "edit" isn't working. "...to a $3000....." and "...There is good.....".

 

[Cruiser]

Well, like comparing a $300 canoe toa $3000 canoe. There us good florescent, but not in big box stores and not in builder spec homes.

Concur with Glen, fluorescent works, but it has many limitations and shortcomings ... especially when compared to LED.

My only suggestion is that it is really more like comparing a $300 budget canoe to really well done canoe for $500 ... LED is not actually that much more costly, given its performance advantages.

 

[billconner]

No question LED is choice now. Just that there was good fluorescent available before LED.

 

[Jim Dodd]

We installed LEDs to replace our ancient Fluorescents, at the Wood Shop. They are magnetic, with about 75 small bulbs. The Ballasts were magnetic also. Pretty easy install !
Don't know if we are saving any money ? But the extra lighting is great.

Keeping the shop cool, is done with three Dehumidifiers. Really feels like we have air, even with the 90 degree temps !

Jim

 

[Conk]

I was burning 26 32-watt fluorescent tubes combined with a dozen 15-watt compact fluorescent screw-in bulbs at a cost of .12 cents an hour. Switching to 12.5w and 9w LED's in the same fixtures reduced my wattage by more than 50%. With a conservative estimate of 1500 hours of shop time annually, it has taken two years to recoup on the LED investment. I should add that I have not changed a single bulb or ballast in five years.