Packing Style

[PeteStaehling]

My canoe camping has all been decades ago and was all fairly heavily loaded to extremely heavily loaded depending on when or where it was. In more recent years I have started packing lighter and lighter when backpacking and bicycle touring. I guess by most standards I have become a pretty extreme weight weenie. I have no plans for any trips any time real soon, but am starting to anticipate how I might pack when I do venture out. I have been using a hoopless bivy or bug bivy and a small tarp and have managed to pack pretty light. My last backpacking trip in the Sierras I think my entire base weight was 14#. Leaving a restock point with my little bear canister (BV45) and water bottle full and some food not in the canister I think the pack was a bit over 21 pounds. I probably had enough food to go 3-4 days with some margin of safety. People would see me and either assume I was day hiking or ask "What do you have in that little pack?"

I really kind of enjoy the minimalist style, but do like to indulge by taking the luxury of a fly rod or maybe light weight spinning gear. I found that in the Sierras the fly rod's weight was pretty easily offset by savings in the need to carry as much food. The trout were plentiful enough and hungry enough to be relied upon in the tiny streams as long as you were okay with small fish. The fishing in the lakes was way less reliable.

I figure the same style could be applied to canoe camping or the ability to carry more could be exploited. I still own a variety of nice gear so a variety of options are possible for me without buying much if any new gear. I could see myself going a little heavier especially where there were no substantial carries, but I have gotten in the habit of not taking much even when I drive my car and live out of it for much of a trip so I guess I am not likely to ever go real heavy again. Then again, who know what I might decide to do next year.

Any way, how heavy or light do you guys pack for back country trips?

 

[PaddlingPitt]

Interesting question, Pete. Kathleen and I started out as backpackers, but became canoeists so that we could go on longer trips into remote areas, with more creature comforts. In 1983, we went on the Thelon River in the Northwest Territories, a distance of approximately 950 km (600 miles) and a projected 40 days. We flew in on a Cessna 185, and were told that the maximum weight of us, the canoe and the gear was 600 pounds. Our canoe weighed 75 pounds. Together, Kathleen and I weighed about 265 pounds. Our gear weighed 310 pounds, which put us about 40 pounds over the limit. It did seem like it took a very long time for us to lift off the lake.

Over the years we have added more gear to our trips. For example, three years ago we added Helinox ground chairs to our gear, primarily because Kathleen said that sitting on rocks or logs or white buckets was hard on her back.I don’t see us ever scaling back. As long as everything fits in the canoe, below the spray deck, we take it if we want it. That’s why we became canoeists. We do not really consider the weight. But I imagine that packing style is highly variable depending on the type of trip, and personal choice.

 

[PeteStaehling]

Your first trip at 40 days and two people will automatically have a pretty good bit of weight just in food unless restocking is possible. Eighty person days of food is a lot of weight all by itself. As a bike tourist I'll mention that is one really nice thing about bicycle touring. Even on a coast to coast tour you never have to carry much food. You can shop pretty much daily a most of the time.

Hauling a couple hundred pounds of food probably makes trimming every gram of gear seem silly, so the type of trip where it is applicable may not be universal. Then again, I like a lot of my light gear well enough that I'd probably stick with much of the list regardless of the length of trip.

Backpacking I always tried to arrange for restocking every few days and try to avoid places where I need to carry much water. Some canoe trips I have done did allow for taking a lot without having to actually carry it, Trips with portages are another matter, but when I was young I didn't mind too much even then. I am too old to want to be a pack mule any more though. Also, I kind of enjoy getting by with minimal "stuff". I do understand the comfort approach too though. Especially when and where you don't have to carry it.

I suspect that the UL approach is probably less popular for canoe tripping for the reasons you mention, but I'd be curious if there are those who pursue that discipline.

 

[Alan Gage]

I'm fairly weight conscious when I go out and don't take much, if anything, in the way of creature comforts. A canoe does allow a person to take extra things they wouldn't take on a hiking trip, especially things that are a little on the bulky side. For me each trip is different depending on duration, time of year, and number of portages. Canoe trips are usually longer than hiking trips and often involves more than one set of shoes (wet and dry) and extra clothes (in case you capsize), and sometimes extra equipment/supplies to repair the canoe if needed.

On long trips (more than a couple weeks) the thing you just can't get away from is food weight. Dried or not it adds up and is substantial. I don't fish on my trips. I've thought of fishing and carrying less food but I just don't see the food value in most fish. My trips have usually been long and physically demanding. When I eat I want carbs and I want fat, neither of which is provided by most fish. So even if I'm eating fish I'll still be supplying the food that I really need to keep going.

Now if you're just out for a few days or up to a couple weeks I think you can get by with a lot less for food and rely more on fish. I've found on my long trips that for the first 2 weeks I eat surprisingly little food. Much less than I'd anticipated and packed for. My dog is the same. I can only assume that our bodies are burning the energy we had stored away as fat. But after 2 weeks it's like someone flipped a switch and food consumption goes way up. I'm not hungry after my meals but I always feel like I could eat more.

Alan

 

[ppine]

My backpacking weight continues to decline. We used to haul around 45-50 pounds. Now I only carry around 28 for shorter trips, sometimes less.
Since we do not portage on western rivers we tend to go heavy, but over time I have made some concessions to weight. It is a conscious decision that affects a lot of small items and a few big items. A lighter boat is a pleasure and adds some safety in rough water.

 

[LanceR]

In the Army we used to joke that the maximum capacity of any cargo truck and a grunt's rucksack were exactly the same....just one more. And on occasion I have to resist the urge to pack that way still.

I guess every trip has its own rules and dynamics but I tend toward packing for good eating, weather resilience, reasonably predictable emergencies and comfort. Even my backpacking gear tends heavier than many if not most. I carry a long, wide and thick mattress as I long ago decided that the trade-off between my comfort and less weight wasn't worth waking with the bulging disc in my back immobilizing me. Although we've backpacked some long trails we aren't interested in through hiking trails like The Appalachian Trail or the Mountains to Sea Trail on which we live. A 50-100 mile section hike is all the fun I want in one stretch.

And as others have said,a canoe just adds to the options for comfort and better eating. Comfy chair? Check. Dutch oven? Maybe a small one.... Cooler and sometimes a two burner Coleman stove? Check and check. Yadda, yadda, yadda

But we're also not going on any back to back to back portage type trips or 40 day expeditions hauling all that either so I guess the answer to how much we pack is totally based on the trip plan and is very much a dynamic thing.

We'll generally cover less ground or water rather than be less comfortable and less well fed when we stop at the end of the day.

Best regards to all,


Lance

 

[Alan Gage]

Even my backpacking gear tends heavier than many if not most. I carry a long, wide and thick mattress as I long ago decided that the trade-off between my comfort and less weight wasn't worth waking with the bulging disc in my back immobilizing me.

I also carry an extra long (6'6"), thick (3 or 4"), and wide (25") sleeping pad but it weighs about a pound and packs up to the size of a Nalgene bottle. I had a couple discs fused 1 1/2 years ago and am happy to say I still find it very comfortable to sleep on. And it's a good thing because I was getting to the point where I had to have something thick and soft for a pad because nothing else would let me sleep through the night anymore.

Your comments made me realize that often times my reason for choosing light weight components is just as much for reduction in bulk as less weight. I'd be willing to carry another pound each for a sleeping bag, pad, tent, etc if they were still the same size but they're usually much bulkier and take up a ton of room. I can pack everything except for food for a 40 day trip into one medium sized canoe pack and it weighs around 35-40 pounds if I remember right. I'm pretty sure my old synthetic sleeping bag would take up about 1/3 of that pack if I were to bring it instead.

Alan

 

[PaddlingPitt]

On our planned 40-day trip on the Thelon River, We actually took food for 42 days, as emergency backup. We didn’t need it though, as we arrived in Baker Lake, our destination, on the 37th day. And, as it turned out, we had much more than five days of food to spare. On layover or wind bound days I caught fish for breakfast and/or supper. There were also some days, when we had been working hard, and were tired, that we simply had a light snack of peanut butter on crackers, and went to bed without supper. On rainy mornings, when we wanted a quick departure, we sometimes just had a granola bar, and skipped breakfast. We have never taken extra food again, and always end our trips with food left over.

Kathleen prepares a bannock mixture for all scheduled breakfasts, and dehydrates all of our suppers. This minimizes weight, but on month-long trips, our food takes up a lot of space. It seems that Kathleen and I are moving in the opposite direction to posters here. We recently upgraded to a larger tent, a MEC Wanderer IV. We love the extra room. It is heavier than our previous Moss Stardome 2. I don’t know how much heavier. I could look it up, but I don’t care what it weighs. It’s what we want. It is a lot bulkier, though, which is problematic for packing. We also recently replaced our home-made coated nylon spray deck with a North Water spray deck. It’s a lot heavier and bulkier for packing on portages. But it’s a helluva spray deck.

So far things are working out for us. I will be 73 in a week, and Kathleen is 68. We are both losing strength, but that is to be expected. And, if the truth be known, and I’m about to make it known, I actually enjoy physical struggle. When the time comes that we can’t deal with the weight and the bulk of our beloved gear, we plan to sell it all, and move to Montreal or Ottawa, and lounge about at sidewalk bistros. I’m actually looking forward to it!

 

[stripperguy]

Over the past decade or so, I have been replacing my gear with lighter, less bulky, equipment, about at the rate that I lose strength and muscle mass.
I only use down sleeping bags now, have a Neo-Air sleeping pad (extremely comfortable), Kelly Kettle and dried meals (home dried) only, and so on. The only item I refuse to be without is my Helinox chair, I'm long done sitting on wet logs or muddy shores. I typically pack the same way for paddling trips as I due for hiking trips, few luxuries, only necessities, but always a DSLR.

 

[Canotrouge]

On canoe trips we definitely pack heavier than most, with wanigan, fire box, table and chairs, large tarps, sometimes canvas tent and even wood stoves!! But I can tell you I don’t suffer anymore!! When back packing that is a lot different!!
my problem with light weight gear is usually durability is lower than “heavy” gear, and believe me I had my share of both and always the top end stuff!!
I don’t like having gear that would be only for one kind of trip, light weight gear is usually less durable and so I tend to keep the gear for the time that weight is really importent like sheep hunting!!

 

[PeteStaehling]

It is nice to be able to have a polite gear discussion that includes disparate styles here. On some outdoor forums heavy vs ultralight becomes a religious argument that isn't possible to keep friendly. For whatever reason it seems especially difficult in bike touring forums with some acceptance or UL as legitimate coming only very recently.

Getting back to canoeing after a long time away from it, food planning may be the big thing I'll have to get adjusted to if I do long trips. I am not used to planning and packing for long periods of time without food restocking. I guess in some ways the planning for backpacking was pretty intense with caches. mailing stuff to pick up points and so on, but there was alway the option to adjust the load at hiker boxes and the occasional store. For backpacking or bike touring I have always planned to do trips with frequent restock points so I never needed to carry much food. I planned trips specifically so I wouldn't need to carry much avoiding the need to carry much water and planning food restock or caches. My limit when backpacking was generally what fit in my BV45 canister plus what I'd eat in the first day, if somewhere a canister was required or a similar amount if not. Bike touring it just wasn't a concern because there was seldom more than a couple days between stores and most times I could shop daily.

I have found that a light sleeping pad can be very comfortable. I really like my NeoAir and it packs really small and weighs something like 12 ounces. I do need to treat it with care, but it has seen a great deal of use, even a lot in goat head thorn country, and has been pretty trouble free, I arrived at a down bag selection that I really like that packs very small and serves me in a wide range of weather. I am lucky enough to sleep really warm and supplement it with clothing piled on top of me if necessary, so I have used it way below it's rated capacity with no complaints. I find that it is a comfy system that is well proven for me, is very light, and packs very small. I got so used to my gear on long bike tours (multi week or multi month) that i am pretty at home with it.

I am so used to my gear that I don't see myself going much different on a lot of it in any case, but I can see taking a heavier approach on some trips with some of the gear where the weight wouldn't be a hassle. I am not sure exactly where I'd splurge on heavier stuff, but food, cooking gear, something to sit on, and a tarp (in addition to the one I sleep under) come to mind as possibilities.

Some canoe trips may be in more remote places for longer where gear replacement or repair might be a bigger issue in that case spares or repair stuff might be an issue.

So I can see myself going on a trip with a lot of carries with 15# of gear (not counting canoe, paddle, and pfd) plus food, but I also can see myself possibly splurging quite a bit on some items and carrying a good bit more on another type of trip.

 

[snapper]

When it comes to packing for a trip, I tend to think in a backpacking frame of mind. Regardless of whether I'm traveling by canoe, on foot or via snowshoes with a sled, I figure the less I have to carry, the happier my old knees are going to be. That being said, I do bring a couple of luxury items when canoeing or traveling with a sled. For me one upgrade is to go from an ultralight sleeping pad to a more plush one; thicker, wider, etc. I'll also bring a larger shelter so I have more room to spread out. Currently that means using a Luxe "Minipeak XL" with the inner tent instead of always being under a tarp. While none of these are large increases to the overall weight in my pack, I'm not inclined to want to carry all of this if it will be on my back.

As for food, that is another area where I'll go "heavy" when paddling. On my last trip with my grandson we brought a small soft sided cooler that allowed for eggs, lots of cheese for those eggs (and pizza) as well as some fresh fruit. While I don't mind any of the meals I create when backpacking, canoe trips definitely allow for fresh foods over a longer period of time while in the backcounry.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.

snapper

 

[PeteStaehling]

Not sure where folks are drawing the line on plush comfortable pads, but I figure my light pad is plush and comfortable. I find my 12 ounce NeoAir xLite really comfy. I sleep great on it. It is full length, wide enough, and 2.5" thick. It is real plush if inflated just right. I don't bother to go with half or 3/4 length pads although I think I could live with one where weight was really critical. So I really don't feel like I am compromising pr giving up any comfort. I find the NeoAir xLite warm enough even for overnight freezing temps if the ground isn't frozen. I haven't done winter camping lately, but if I were to again I'd put a light foam pad under it. I have owned a variety of other pads and none of them are more comfortable

I own a monster of a self inflating thermarest that I'd never carry anywhere. It is huge, heavy, and pretty comfortable (I'd still give my xLite the edge on comfort). I don't usually even use it car camping any more.

There is one drawback to any inflatable and that is that there is always some risk of a puncture or leak. With care mine have been acceptably reliable.

Sprawling room is something I look at differently than most. I figure that when in the tent or bivy I am sleeping or reading and either require no sprawling room. Also I don't toss and turn. I guess many (most) differ on that. As far as feeling closed in... In a way the bivy I use is not much more than a sleeping bag cover so it moves with me and is like something you wear more than something you are stuck inside, or at least I can tell myself that and can feel like I am outside, I can easily pop my head out and look around 360 degrees unlike in a tent. When it isn't buggy or cold and windy I just sleep on top of the bivy and climb in as conditions change. Often if the weather is nice, I don't pitch the tarp and just have it handy and ready to pull over me and my gear if there is unexpected weather. So on some trips I wind up cowboy camping more often than not. In good weather it takes pretty much no time to make or break camp. This works great for improvised sites on bike tours and has worked well while backpacking. I've never done it for canoe tripping so it is an unproven for me technique there.

 

[flyingbison]

I also carry an extra long (6'6"), thick (3 or 4"), and wide (25") sleeping pad but it weighs about a pound and packs up to the size of a Nalgene bottle.

What brand/model? I would definitely be interested in something like that. My 3.5" REI sleeping mat takes up way too much space.

 

[Canotrouge]

Up here every trip is a remote trip! And you need to be somewhat prepared for snow all year around(I saw snow on the ground in every month of the year) so maybe a bit different! As for light gear, I think sleeping bag is an area one can’t go wrong, mine are all somewhat light but I want to replace my “summer” bag with a quilt made by Enlighten! As for tent we have a mondomid by MLD, we can sleep all 3 of us in it with some room to spare and all in all it weight just under 5lbs with ground sheath!! That is UL for us! I don’t see us using it on base camp trips(truck based) to try and save it a bit!! But for fly in(if I do an other one) and mountain trips, caribou and sheep hunting!!
we use thermarest new air extreme as mats, warm and comfy!! There is a few other things I would like to get in the UL département but mostly for hiking and not really for canoeing!!

 

[PeteStaehling]

And you need to be somewhat prepared for snow all year around(I saw snow on the ground in every month of the year) so maybe a bit different!

Actually that is also true at high elevation in the Sierras and Cascades. So I too have to be ready for the possibility of some snow on backpacking trips and some bike tours. I have seen some snow on a few summer trips.

I am not a fan of quilts. I prefer to zip open my down bag and use it like a quilt, but have the option of zipping it up. I have friends who love them though. Personal preference I guess.

On the sleeping pad do you mean the xTherm? It sounds like a nice choice. I have considered one, but have been happy with the xLite and haven't felt the need to buy another pad.

 

[Alan Gage]

What brand/model? I would definitely be interested in something like that. My 3.5" REI sleeping mat takes up way too much space.

It's a Thermarest NeoAir Trekker. I see a few other members have mentioned them in this thread too.

Alan

 

[Guest]

Your comments made me realize that often times my reason for choosing light weight components is just as much for reduction in bulk as less weight. I'd be willing to carry another pound each for a sleeping bag, pad, tent, etc if they were still the same size but they're usually much bulkier and take up a ton of room.

The furthest I carry canoe and gear is often from the truck to the launch, or gear from a landing to a campsite, so my weight concerns are far less than folks hopping from pond to pond or portaging into the next watershed.

Although I am a heavy packer, and use a big-boy boat as a solo, I have chosen some gear for volume reduction. The volume difference between, say, a 2-man Timberline and a (almost) 2-man Hubba Hubba is considerable. The downside of that is I’ve worn out a Hubba Hubba and still have sturdy 20+ year old Timberlines.

We have a similar sized CCS sil-nylon Tundra Tarp and PU coated Kelty Noah’s tarp, each in the same size ridgeline stuff bag. The Noah’s tarp is twice the volume.

Smaller stove and minimal cookware. Down sleeping bags and more compressible clothing layers likewise. For those things I really like using compression stuff sacks to reduce the volume.

There are bulkier items I will not give up. I want a 2-man, 2-door, 2-vestibule tent, just for me, and a wide, thick sleeping pad. A sizable tarp, with a couple poles and good tarp stakes. Big, heavy wind-chair with accoutrements.

As long as it all fits in the big-boy boat, usually below sheerline under spray covers, I’m good.

 

[Alan Gage]

Sprawling room is something I look at differently than most. I figure that when in the tent or bivy I am sleeping or reading and either require no sprawling room. Also I don't toss and turn. I guess many (most) differ on that.

Where I appreciate a bigger tent (CCS Lean 1 in my case) is when I'm stuck in camp for multiple days due to wind and rain. Sitting around with nothing to do for a couple days gets really boring so I appreciate being able to sit up, kneel, keep all my gear within reach (and dry) and cook in the vestibule all while it's cold and raining and blowing outside.

That being said the Lean is still quite lightweight for its size (can easily sleep 2 people+dog+some gear) and packs up small.

Sometimes it would be nice to have a tarp as well but so far I haven't doubled up.

Alan

 

[stripperguy]

Not sure where folks are drawing the line on plush comfortable pads, but I figure my light pad is plush and comfortable. I find my 12 ounce NeoAir xLite really comfy. I sleep great on it. It is full length, wide enough, and 2.5" thick. It is real plush if inflated just right. ...

Pete,
Is that ever a mouthful!!
I've found there's a fine line between a comfy night's sleep and a filled too much Neo-Air. It took me a few tries to find the optimum volume...It seems like it's just not enough, until you lay on the entire pad and then it's just "aaahhh".