Opinions on a new boat - Rapidfire, Spitfire 13, Trillium

[Monel]

Hello folks,

I'm hoping to treat myself to a new solo touring canoe this year and would appreciate some opinions. I'll mostly be using my new boat for multi-day trips on the Swan Lake canoe trails on the Kenai in Alaska. The lakes aren't too big but can draw a wind, the portages not too long, but, I'm 65 and they get longer every year.

I'm 6'0" 165 pounds, and travel pretty light. I can't see the total load with all my food and kit ever being over 210 pounds. Pretty sure I want a full kneeling canoe vs a low packboat seat. I'm adept with both a single canoe paddle and double kayak paddle, with a slight preference towards sitting and using the single blade. I do appreciate the double blade when the wind picks up though, oh, and sometimes just like the power and control I get kneeling with a single blade.

I've got an old Bell Wildfire in Royalex, weighs 44 pounds, and I'd love to drop that weight nearly in half. I'll be keeping the Wildfire for when I anticipate rocks, waves, eddies and turbulence on a river somewhere. My Wildfire, at 30" max and 26.5" wl already feels a little dicey until I settle in. I also like fishing and again the Wildfire works just ok for that. I usually paddle my Aire Super Lynx inflatable kayak on remote arctic rivers when flying in and out is called for.

I've always lusted after a Placid Boatworks Rapidfire but am wondering about it's initial stability for me, especially with a kneeling canoe seat.

The Northstar Trillium has also caught my eye and looks to be a bit wider and more stable than the Rapidfire.

I'm also considering the Placid Spitfire which seems to fit my stability desires, but at 13' might be a tad too short.

I've ruled against both the Northstar Phoenix and Firebird primarily because they duplicate my Wildfire. If I need the maneuverability from 2.5" rocker bow and stern I'll just take the Wildfire. I don't need that rocker out at Swan Lakes. Speed, though appreciated, is also not my highest priority. I've been learnig to enjoy the journey moreso nowadays.

I'm leaning towards the Spitfire with a kneeling seat with the lightest layup they can put together for me. The only real concern I have is whether I'll be happy with a 13' boat.

Ok, am I overthinking this? Unfortunately I'll have to decide without actually test paddling them and it is a subtantial investment. I'm sure I'll be happy with whatever I end up with but, please, let me know what you think.

Best regards,

Monel
Anchorage, AK

 

[RBourg]

maybe 14' swift with multi height seat pods for when you switch paddles. I think they would still make a Keewaydin 14 if you wanted or maybe consider one of their newer hulls.

 

[dramey]

I just bought a new Wenonah Wilderness in the ultralight kevlar layup last November. It weighs 30 lbs. I bought this canoe at Wilderness Way in Soldotna just to canoe the Swanson River Canoe Trails, the Swan Lake Canoe Trails and the Nancy Lake Canoe Trails.

 

[gumpus]

I owned a Rapidfire and have paddled Trilliums. When you say efficiency isn't a top priority and you plan to fish I doubt the Rapidfire is the right choice. For me Rapidfire was cramped even with an 18 pound dog. Trillium is a very efficient boat that's also quite friendly...a bit more stable than your WF yet much better for cruising and dealing with wind. It would be a great complement to your WF. Trillium works fine on rivers with moderate or less current; the bow responds well to the paddle.

I haven't paddled a Spitfire. Not sure how stable it would be kneeling...for a given waterline width longer boats are more stable. Personally I would not go for a 13 foot boat; I prefer something bigger and I like 15 footers (I'm about your size). Flashfire just seemed too small to me and even the Royalex WF seems smaller than I'd prefer. I cruise upstream on rivers and the longer boats just work better. I've come close to buying a Trillium more than once.

 

[RBourg]

Hello folks,

I'm hoping to treat myself to a new solo touring canoe this year and would appreciate some opinions. I'll mostly be using my new boat for multi-day trips on the Swan Lake canoe trails on the Kenai in Alaska. The lakes aren't too big but can draw a wind, the portages not too long, but, I'm 65 and they get longer every year.

I'm 6'0" 165 pounds, and travel pretty light. I can't see the total load with all my food and kit ever being over 210 pounds. Pretty sure I want a full kneeling canoe vs a low packboat seat. I'm adept with both a single canoe paddle and double kayak paddle, with a slight preference towards sitting and using the single blade. I do appreciate the double blade when the wind picks up though, oh, and sometimes just like the power and control I get kneeling with a single blade.

I've got an old Bell Wildfire in Royalex, weighs 44 pounds, and I'd love to drop that weight nearly in half. I'll be keeping the Wildfire for when I anticipate rocks, waves, eddies and turbulence on a river somewhere. My Wildfire, at 30" max and 26.5" wl already feels a little dicey until I settle in. I also like fishing and again the Wildfire works just ok for that. I usually paddle my Aire Super Lynx inflatable kayak on remote arctic rivers when flying in and out is called for.

I've always lusted after a Placid Boatworks Rapidfire but am wondering about it's initial stability for me, especially with a kneeling canoe seat.

The Northstar Trillium has also caught my eye and looks to be a bit wider and more stable than the Rapidfire.

I'm also considering the Placid Spitfire which seems to fit my stability desires, but at 13' might be a tad too short.

I've ruled against both the Northstar Phoenix and Firebird primarily because they duplicate my Wildfire. If I need the maneuverability from 2.5" rocker bow and stern I'll just take the Wildfire. I don't need that rocker out at Swan Lakes. Speed, though appreciated, is also not my highest priority. I've been learnig to enjoy the journey moreso nowadays.

I'm leaning towards the Spitfire with a kneeling seat with the lightest layup they can put together for me. The only real concern I have is whether I'll be happy with a 13' boat.

Ok, am I overthinking this? Unfortunately I'll have to decide without actually test paddling them and it is a subtantial investment. I'm sure I'll be happy with whatever I end up with but, please, let me know what you think.

Best regards,

Monel
Anchorage, AK

I was not aware that Placid built anything other than pack boat style seating.

 

[Neophyte]

I love my Trillium, and since you’ve already said speed isn’t your top priority I would certainly recommend it. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a quick little canoe but definitely doesn’t have the same glide at faster speeds as say the Magic.

I’m 145 lbs, and I find on windy days I have to add a little weight or I get blown around. I think at your weight it’ll be perfect.

I also think Swift’s adjustable height seats are well designed, so if you’re planning on switching between sitting/kneeling frequently I would second RBourg’s recommendation. I don’t know enough about their lineup to recommend a specific model.

Have you paddled a Rapidfire? I rented one for a day in a pack setup. It was nice but I found it uninspiring. Placid’s whole deal is pack boats, I would hesitate to get a boat from them unless that’s what I wanted. But perhaps others can speak more to how Rapidfire does in alternate seating configurations.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

I have paddled a friend's Spitfire. Fun little boat. It was set up with seat on the floor, so I don't know how it would be for kneeling with a single blade. But it didn't impress me as what I would want in a tripping canoe, unless for just a night or two with minimal gear (think ultralight backpacking). For reference, I'm about 5'11" and 155 lb.

I haven't paddled the others, except for my 30 lb Wildfire, which I would definitely choose for multi-day trips over the Spitfire, regardless of conditions.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I believe you would find the Placid Rapidfire and certainly the Spitfire too initially unstable with kneeling seats. @yknpdlr has a Rapidfire with a kneeling seat, so maybe he will chime in. The Spitfire is only 12 foot length overall, not 13.

For what you want to paddle, I'd prefer forward efficiency over turnability. At my age (81), I like my 28 lb. carbon fusion Swift Keewaydin 15 very much as a lake canoe. You can find many threads featuring it that I've posted. It also can handle very twisty streams, such as the Jersey Pinelands, though not as effectively as my black-gold Wildfire or a Savage River Illusion.

I've got an old Bell Wildfire in Royalex, weighs 44 pounds, and I'd love to drop that weight nearly in half.

That's an aggressive weight goal for a kneeling canoe. That may point to a Northstar Trillium in Starlight layup at 25 lbs., which I've never paddled, or a Savage River Illusion, which can be made under 20 lbs. and which I like better than my Wildfire. Your Bell Royalex Wildfire, later called the Yellowstone, has asymmetrical rocker (2.5", 1.5") unlike the symmetrically rockered composite Wildfire.

 

[yknpdlr]

@yknpdlr has a Rapidfire with a kneeling seat, so maybe he will chime in.

i do have a Rapidfire among several other solo lighwight canoes. But none are configured for kneeling in any of them, quite the opposite. All of my solo canoes (except the Hornbecks) have custom elevated sitting seats, Each about 1.5 inches above stock elevation, as is my preference since I paddle all primarily with a single blade paddle only as is best for me. Although I have tried, I have never been comfortable in the kneeling postion for long without soon experiencing unpleasant pain.

 

[tketcham]

I'll mostly be using my new boat for multi-day trips on the Swan Lake canoe trails on the Kenai in Alaska.

With touring being the primary use of your new canoe, I agree with Neophyte and gumpus on recommending the Northstar Trillium. I haven't paddled a Trillium but own a Hemlock Kestrel, which is very similar in size and design to the Trillium, and think that if you pack like a backpacker the Trillium would work well for you as an efficient touring canoe. Much better than a Spitfire, especially if you don't plan on using your canoe as a pack boat, and the Trillium would provide some added initial stability compared to the Rapidfire. At 25 lbs in the Starlite layup, the Trillium would be an easy carry on portages.

As Glenn suggested, the Swift Keewaydin 15 is also worth considering, especially since you're 20 lbs heavier and a few inches taller than I am. The added stability might be nice on rough water and the extra 1" width isn't going to affect your paddling efficiency/ergonomics much. You could get a Kee 15 at 27 lbs in Carbon Fusion, but, it'll cost you an extra grand or so.

 

[GeoBoy]

I have a Trillium pac in Blacklight and it is very stable and maneuverable. It weighs in at 27 lbs. and is easily portaged with a yoke, whereas the Rapidfire needs to be modified to use a portage yoke. The Trillium is DY’s 6th and recent rendition of the Fire series. Great canoe.