I'm going to be checking out a secondhand Wenonah Spirit II in Kevlar ultralight in a few days. It has had repair work completed on the hull, and I'm looking for ways to evaluate how well I can expect the repairs to hold up. What should I be looking for? Are there are red flags that might indicate a shoddy repair job?
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Evaluating Kevlar Repairs
- Thread starter NomadAK
- Start date
Would probably need more details about the type of damage and repairs. For minor issues I would say that if the repair "looks good" it would be fine. Some more serious damage can't easily be fixed.
I beat the crap out of my boats, I repair without much consideration for looks and some people might think they are ready for the dumpster. To those comments I just remind them that I did a 50 day trip in it last year and heading out for another 40 days this year.
I also have a cedar/canvas boat with a ton of patches done with auto-body filler and fibreglass, looks real ugly but after an hour in the water the wood expands, the leaks stop and it's becomes totally seaworthy.
I have another canoe (royalex) that has a 3 foot long crack in the bottom (outer layer only), I hesitate to repair but if I did I would only use it for short trips where escape is possible, if the crack was 6 inches long I wouldn't be concerned.
I beat the crap out of my boats, I repair without much consideration for looks and some people might think they are ready for the dumpster. To those comments I just remind them that I did a 50 day trip in it last year and heading out for another 40 days this year.
I also have a cedar/canvas boat with a ton of patches done with auto-body filler and fibreglass, looks real ugly but after an hour in the water the wood expands, the leaks stop and it's becomes totally seaworthy.
I have another canoe (royalex) that has a 3 foot long crack in the bottom (outer layer only), I hesitate to repair but if I did I would only use it for short trips where escape is possible, if the crack was 6 inches long I wouldn't be concerned.
Verify the work was done with epoxy.
Your eyes will tell as to the quality of the repair ! Is there damage to the foam ribs or bottom ?
Kevlar though it is great stuff ! Degrades in Sunlight. Really faded, means it was outside in the sun a lot.
That's about all I can think of !
jim
Your eyes will tell as to the quality of the repair ! Is there damage to the foam ribs or bottom ?
Kevlar though it is great stuff ! Degrades in Sunlight. Really faded, means it was outside in the sun a lot.
That's about all I can think of !
jim
I wrecked a Merlin.. It was fixed with vinylester and a kevlar patch and fixed well. It still looked like crap but the patch was good.. Kevlar turns a rich brown with age naturally. That does not indicate UV damage. Chalky epoxy does if that was what was used to do the repair.
If there are foam cracks.. run.
If there are foam cracks.. run.
Nomad, Look for clean patches and smooth edges of the patch. If there are raised edges it will need some attention. Love to see pictures! Good luck!
dougd
dougd
I picked up a Bell Northstar a few years ago, it was beat up pretty bad and the wood rotted. I managed to do some first time Kevlar repairs and the canoe turned out pretty good and I have never heard back from the buyer, actually he got a great canoe for cheap. Just adding my 2 cents, if the price is good it's worth a shot imo.
I didn't spend a lot of time on interior cosmetics, I gave the cracks some strong repairs and the new owner saved a ton to get a light weight Kevlar canoe
I didn't spend a lot of time on interior cosmetics, I gave the cracks some strong repairs and the new owner saved a ton to get a light weight Kevlar canoe
Maybe I'm reading this wrong ! But you say the Kevlar AGES to a rich brown, as a matter of Time ? UV doesn't play a roll in this ?
Jim
yup.. Our 1991 Wenonah Odyssey is a very dark gold brown.. One winter it was outside under five feet of snow.. The other 28 years it has been stored inside.. Where we live UV is a hope anyway..Our yard is too dark to grow anything. We have a BWCA campsite type yard. I have read other sources of Kevlar also darkening with age with no UV exposure. ( ie bagged)
All I am saying that Kevlar changes color over time without being outside.
I tend to agree. The patch looks like some I did 30 years ago, and the boat looks the same. The year of manufacture is on the serial number on Wenonahs--last two digits I believe. The boat looks old (very dark Kevlar).
That's the thing with kevlar, pay $2500 for a canoe, kiss a rock and now it's not worth $1000 without sending it out for a profe$$ional repair, which will still stick out like a sore thumb without fresh paint.
That canoe doesn't have much wear from that one picture. The owner may have had it repaired for cheap to try and recoup some of his money.
UGH! kevlar
I sold that damaged Northstar in post 6 for maybe $700, maybe less, it's been a while. I paid $45 for it, drove 100 miles round trip, spent money on paint, ash lumber and G Flex not to mention the time working on it. If it was for personal use maybe a good deal, but no more kevlar hull repairs and try to resell it.
Just my experience, glad I'm a wood canvas guy, easy to get them looking like new.
That canoe doesn't have much wear from that one picture. The owner may have had it repaired for cheap to try and recoup some of his money.
UGH! kevlar
I sold that damaged Northstar in post 6 for maybe $700, maybe less, it's been a while. I paid $45 for it, drove 100 miles round trip, spent money on paint, ash lumber and G Flex not to mention the time working on it. If it was for personal use maybe a good deal, but no more kevlar hull repairs and try to resell it.
Just my experience, glad I'm a wood canvas guy, easy to get them looking like new.
It's really hard to tell what's happening with the patch. Is it dirty? Or has the epoxy turned dark with exposure. Is it soft at the patch? What's the damage to the inside? Are there other issues with the hull? How old is the boat? Is this the model you really want? Lots of questions to ask. It's obviously worth something and if you bought it and repaired the repair the canoe would last 20 years or more depending on how you use it and store it. That's $50 per year. Just another way of looking at it.
Mark
Mark
Yes, the color of that patch is not a good sign. If it was done with good prep and materials I would expect it to be lighter than the original hull, or basically clear if glass. Maybe the patch was mostly mechanically OK but it leaked, so he added gunk? Hmmm.
It's usually better to make those kind of repairs on the inside, but I imagine the football area foam (usually a diamond shape in Wenonahs) would prevent that.
All that said, that isn't a very difficult place to patch a boat, and it probably wouldn't be too hard to remove the prior attempt and patch again, doing it right so it's permanent. Maybe I'm a bottom dweller, but if that was a model I was looking for I'd buy that boat for the right price.
It's usually better to make those kind of repairs on the inside, but I imagine the football area foam (usually a diamond shape in Wenonahs) would prevent that.
All that said, that isn't a very difficult place to patch a boat, and it probably wouldn't be too hard to remove the prior attempt and patch again, doing it right so it's permanent. Maybe I'm a bottom dweller, but if that was a model I was looking for I'd buy that boat for the right price.
Patch is horrid.. And the seller in la la land.. No way is that boat worth a grand.. Its the color of my old Wenonah and the seller needs to show the inside.. It may have fractures in the foam core and he can send you the last two numbers of the HIN to age it.
Usually repairs are done on the inside with multiple layers of shaped glass or Kevlar.
Usually repairs are done on the inside with multiple layers of shaped glass or Kevlar.
G
Guest
Guest
That “patch” is one of the worst I have seen. I’d guess that the black/grey goo is JB Weld or PC-7 epoxy putty, applied to hide the sharp frays and strays of the fiberglass patch material. Given the workmanship of the repair the probability of the repair having been done with auto store E-glass and polyester resin is high.
Knowing that I would want to remove that awful patch and do a proper job with S glass and epoxy, even if the rest of the hull appears to be in good condition $1000 is too much.
The worst patch job I have seen was a friend’s used Millbrook Coyote. The previous owner had used auto E-glass and poly resin, which is bad enough, but he had left ragged frays and strays along the edges of every patch. The frays and strays and lifting edges of the patches were so dangerously razor sharp that I didn’t want to get near the canoe on land, much less in any assisted rescue.
Knowing that I would want to remove that awful patch and do a proper job with S glass and epoxy, even if the rest of the hull appears to be in good condition $1000 is too much.
The worst patch job I have seen was a friend’s used Millbrook Coyote. The previous owner had used auto E-glass and poly resin, which is bad enough, but he had left ragged frays and strays along the edges of every patch. The frays and strays and lifting edges of the patches were so dangerously razor sharp that I didn’t want to get near the canoe on land, much less in any assisted rescue.
I fixed up a Bell Mystic not to long ago and it had a lot of jagged edges where it got punctured, a long story, and I tried a whole bunch of different ways to get rid of them best I could. In the end after a lot of head scratching and swearing a simple pair of sissors is what did the trick. Took 99% of the frayed crap off.
Consensus seems to be the patch is of poor quality...and given that his price was already above what I was looking for, and that it isn't exactly the boat I wanted, I think I'll pass. Got a few leads on some Old Town Trippers in Royalex that I'll run with instead. Thanks everyone for the insights!
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You should see the Bell Mystic Doug sold me. Definitely don't need to lock that one up. But I still win races in it!
I've bought a couple old kevlar canoes (~20-25 years old at the time) that had pieces of tape on the hull for who knows how many years. When I peeled the tape off the kevlar under the tape was noticeably lighter so I've got to think UV plays some part in the browning.
The two boats were racing C1 canoes from the mid-80's. One was a Wenonah and the other a Wabash Valley (Ted Bell). They were owned by friends who paddled them for a few years and then they hung in a barn for a decade or two. The Wabash Valley was much darker than the Wenonah. I don't know if this is because it got more use at the time and saw more UV, if it used to be stored outdoors (again more UV) or if it was just a difference in the cloth/resin. The Wabash Valley did appear to have seen more use than the Wenonah (J-180)
This is before the barn grime was washed off but you can still tell:
20090907_004 copy_web by Alan, on FlickrAlan
