So I was walking my dogs near the boathouse and noted a derelict cedar strip canoe with multiple issues. Got it legally released and home to the garage. What a beautiful craft. Can't tell if kit built or store bought but it is 15.5' long, flat bottom 14' 5" and 3' 1/4 at midship gunnels. While I went to wooden boat building school ( about the time of Noah), I have only done fiberglass repairs on Sunfish and Kevlar canoes in recent years. Of course I would like to retain as much beauty as possible without breaking the bank, but the main issue is hull integrity and watertight. I usually use Total Boat epoxy but am open to Forum suggestions on glass type, weight, and epoxy. First issue: Large rip in side-About a foot long from gunnel to small hole. This is amidship. Just home from Maine and the wonderful folks at Greene Marine in Falmouth gave me some mahogany 1/8 th inch veneer that one might use a a patch on the inside of the major rip that you don't yet see below. How to best repair this rip is my main concern. Whether to fit the tear together, then glass in and out, then make a doubled veneer patch on the inside, and glass over that. One also might drill to fix small brass/bronze fittings from the outside into the veneer. Epoxy over that. Second issue: Rip in bottom about 4' long- small separation of glass from hull. Other issues are rotted gunwales, a small hole, and rotted stems. These are not large issues for me. I should add, I have a retired shop teacher up the road with a pretty good shop that I can use. Can't keep the boat there but use his tools and some advice. Pictures will not load on this page. They are from iPhone and loaded on my computer. Not sure how to fix but will be back when figure it out. Thanks for your patience. Bill
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Happy Scream Day! 😱
Cedar Strip Basket Case: Advice Sought
- Thread starter BillC
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Bill, welcome to first post site membership! Feel free to ask any questions and to post messages, photos and videos in our many forums. Please read Welcome to CanoeTripping and Site Rules! Also, please consider adding your location to your profile, which will cause it to show under your avatar, as this is in many ways a geographic sport. We look forward to your participation in our canoe community.
As I notified you by private conversation, see this thread for guidance on how to post iPhone pictures:
As I notified you by private conversation, see this thread for guidance on how to post iPhone pictures:
Posting Pictures Taken With an iPhone
While working with a member who was having trouble posting iPhone pictures from his Mac computer to this site, I had occasion to research this issue. Here is what I learned. iPhones, like other cameras, used to store photos in JPEG format. However, in 2017, iPhones began storing photos as HEIF...
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Interesting. Pictures would be great. Welcome aboard. There are some real experts here. I just tag along like a puppy dog looking for little tidbits, but I love it.
Roy
Roy
It would be wise to determine if it was built with Epoxy, or Polyester resin.
Pics will help!
Sand a spot, if it's poly ? It will have a definite odor of fiberglass. Milkyness in the cloth is a indicator of polyester resin.
If it's Poly ? Strip at least the outer layer. Epoxy ! Sand and patch.
Might be a great project !
Jim
Pics will help!
Sand a spot, if it's poly ? It will have a definite odor of fiberglass. Milkyness in the cloth is a indicator of polyester resin.
If it's Poly ? Strip at least the outer layer. Epoxy ! Sand and patch.
Might be a great project !
Jim
You can post photos two ways.
1. To insert photos anywhere in the middle of your text, as many folks do when posting trip or build reports, click the Insert Image (mountain) icon and then choose whether you want to (a) upload a photo from your computer/phone or (b) link to a photo on an internet photo site.
2. You also use the Attach Files button, which is what you have done. This will put all images only at the end of your post.
Ouch! That's a nasty rip in the side. How in the world did some one manage that?
Thanks Roy,
Yup! And that's only one of the sweet lady's issues. That rip is about 18" long with a silver dollar (remember those) hole at the bottom. I'm positive and I love a challenge. Once I figure out the poly-epoxy issue ( not sure I understand yet), I'll be looking at probably more than just an epoxy/glass fix. But, I've got more listening and learning to go before I snuggle up to her. Hopefully, I can beat the weather as the garage is not heated.
Yup! And that's only one of the sweet lady's issues. That rip is about 18" long with a silver dollar (remember those) hole at the bottom. I'm positive and I love a challenge. Once I figure out the poly-epoxy issue ( not sure I understand yet), I'll be looking at probably more than just an epoxy/glass fix. But, I've got more listening and learning to go before I snuggle up to her. Hopefully, I can beat the weather as the garage is not heated.
It appears to be built with epoxy, but a sniff test will confirm. Yes, it is fixable.
I would start by sanding down to bare wood at least 2-3" beyond crack or break, inside and out.
Clamp, strap, even make temporary forms, to get the hull in shape !
Glass over the the breaks with several layers of cloth ( at least 3 ) , inside and out.
Feather the glass with a scraper, sand varnish and paddle.
Looks like Fun !
Again your nose will tell you ,when you sand. You will note a definite Fiberglass smell, if it's Polyester. If that is the case ? You have a lot more work, than above stated !
Good luck !
I would start by sanding down to bare wood at least 2-3" beyond crack or break, inside and out.
Clamp, strap, even make temporary forms, to get the hull in shape !
Glass over the the breaks with several layers of cloth ( at least 3 ) , inside and out.
Feather the glass with a scraper, sand varnish and paddle.
Looks like Fun !
Again your nose will tell you ,when you sand. You will note a definite Fiberglass smell, if it's Polyester. If that is the case ? You have a lot more work, than above stated !
Good luck !
OK- I sniff tested it and didn't smell a thing. Its going to warm up this weekend so I may have window to epoxy.. What to use if the weather is 65ish? MAS, Total Boat, West? I need it delivered fast so that might figure in too. I think I need to use a slow harder but am open to suggestions.
What's the difference between 2 to 1 and 5 to 1 when it comes to epoxy?
I'm using #4 cloth and patching the hole with a cedar shingle cut to fit. Using a jar top to get a uniform patch pattern.
Roy, The best we can figure, the canoe was leaning against a wall and some kid jumped on it- cracking it down the side and lapping it. My old partner-with massive upper body strength- repeated the process and realigned the pieces. Now it fits together almost perfectly and I'm off to sanding a 6 " strip inside and out. Patch that and then put a 10 " strip over it- sand etc.
What's the difference between 2 to 1 and 5 to 1 when it comes to epoxy?
I'm using #4 cloth and patching the hole with a cedar shingle cut to fit. Using a jar top to get a uniform patch pattern.
Roy, The best we can figure, the canoe was leaning against a wall and some kid jumped on it- cracking it down the side and lapping it. My old partner-with massive upper body strength- repeated the process and realigned the pieces. Now it fits together almost perfectly and I'm off to sanding a 6 " strip inside and out. Patch that and then put a 10 " strip over it- sand etc.
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If you can warm the hull, in a garage with a heater ? That would be ideal.
You want Marine epoxy, usually 2 parts resin to 1 part hardener. I'm a fan of RAKA 127 resin, and 350 non- blush hardener. Don't know about the shipping time frame to NY ?
I'm sure other resins are fine ! shop for a local supplier, West System is carried by a lot of wood working stores.
Good Luck !
You want Marine epoxy, usually 2 parts resin to 1 part hardener. I'm a fan of RAKA 127 resin, and 350 non- blush hardener. Don't know about the shipping time frame to NY ?
I'm sure other resins are fine ! shop for a local supplier, West System is carried by a lot of wood working stores.
Good Luck !
Well here we go{. The wife released me along with the dogs to work on the canoe. This weekend the temp is low 70's about a hour North of NYC. I ordered RAKA 127( Thanks Jim) and 606 slow. It's 2 to 1 and since she (the boat) has a number of issues- I thought I needed more time. Ordered Wednesday here today by 3 PM. Not cheap but ready to go. I just stripped the rip back a total of ten inches. I was able to use an old putty knife to lift the fiberglass and I scored the outline with a razor knife. I have made a patch for my silver dollar hole, not perfect but passable. I'll need to fill with a little epoxy mixed with cedar sawdust and trimmings. My plan, after extensive orbital sanding with 80 grit, is to put a modest V down the crack/rip with my Dremel, epoxy that well along with the patch, then apply a six inch strip over the rip, wait about 3 hours, and then overlay a ten inch strip. I'll do inside and outside on that rip. I also am making a patch for a rotted spot on the port gunnel. I could just load it with epoxy-but that doesn't seem fitting to me. Next in line is hole on the starboard bow. It's nasty and disclosed but a bit of sanding may improve the looks. Easy patch. Lastly, is the split down the bottom seam. After peeling back, sanding, I can lay a 2 inch strip down and follow with a 4 inch strip. The canoe seam has separated there, so once I glass it, I'll overlay the blue sheet used for painting (which comes up after the epoxy has set) place a board on top and a 50 pound bag of sand. That should allow the seam to reset correctly. If anyone thinks I'm nuts or need advice-please speak up. My wife will cheer you on. I'll post pictures once my son instructs me- yes I'm hopeless with todays tech- I had punch cards and a Univax. Bill
Hi Jim, Perhaps I should have gotten the non blush you recommended. Now after sanding the rip real well, I do get an odor from the glass. So now I'm worried it might be polyester. I have to prep everything-top and bottom before I start to patch. That's my project for today and tomorrow I glass and epoxy. Cheers Bill
Well- It's always something. Turns out what I thought was going to be an easy patch on the starboard bow is rotted with several strips needing to be replaced. To keep me on a reasonable schedule, I'll have to put off glassing and resin until I replace these strips. Back to the drawing board. I just acquired some cedar strips with tongue and groove. they appear a little smaller than my strips but I can make them work.
Attachments
After a bit of soul searching, I think instead of a patch over the large hole ( picture 2 above) I should cut it out and repair it properly with cedar strips. Also, the hole in the side. In the interest of maximizing hull strength, one would want to vary the lengths of cedar strip patches. I note that this 15.5 ft canoe has no seams in its strips but that each strip appears to run the length of the canoe. What would be an appropriate pattern to adopt to properly cover the hole? Is there a guideline on how far new seams should be for each other? i.e. strip ends that are scarfed into the original cedar strips? While I can go ahead and cut out the bad wood and fit strips this fall, it is now too cold to epoxy. Happy Thanksgiving!
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Project started in October of 2022 with little done over year until September/ October 2023. Grandkids, dogs, holidays, haying at sister’s farm-you know the drill. Cut back glass, sanded, cut out bad spots, cut strips to fit- numbered so I could put them back as they were fitted. Then I used Titebond waterproof glue. First was the 4.5 foot rip on bottom, which had to be jacked up from underneath while canoe was upside down-see picture- then weighed on top with paint cans- worked great! Next was the side rip which I cleaned out with Dremel, then glued along with new cedar strips. Next was the patch on the starboard bow and the gunnel patch. All with new strips. My big mistake was not cutting out the big rip at the gunnel (down six inches or so) and replacing with new strips. That would have added strength and aesthetically diminished the scar of the rip. Glassed it all using Raka 127 and 606. Working time with 606 was less than I thought it would be but that might have been a function of batch size. Thoughts? Then it was load the canoe on the Outback and carefully drive to my woodworking friends shop. Into his basement shop-warm. He was a shop teacher for forty years, as was his father- need I say more. We had gone to his favorite lumber yard in the back woods and bought 10 board ft of white oak. We ripped this for gunnels and inwalls. Most of the heavy lifting was done by Clark Darling, at 86, still a titan in the wood shop. We scarfed both sets, then mounted the gunnels first with bronze fittings then the inwalls. Adding inwalls stiffened the craft considerably given it has no thwarts. Clark designed and made new decking out of the butternut given to me by a teacher from western New York-who came to buy my apple press. Now I’m left with a bit of epoxy work to level out the tops of the gunnels and smooth out some of the patched areas. Then a complete sanding of the hull and varnish. I will still need to make the rowing seat or buy one and replace the ancient caning on the two remaining seats. A major issue for me is the crown of the bow and stern where the gunnels were cut off flat. See last picture. Looks ugly and unfinished. I will block sand the edges to smooth out the finish but that doesn’t solve the ends. Any ideas here greatly appreciated. Also, I will have to buy or find several bronze or stainless fender eye or eye bolts for the painters. All in all a great psychic income project. Kind of they said it couldn’t be saved- but it has- all for about $300. Expect to launch this Spring and row the 55 acre lake- maybe catching a few bass as I go. Thanks for the advice and help. Obviously more needed. HNY. Pictures to follow-file too big?
Bigger batches of epoxy cure faster.
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