Canoe Soduku

[Sweetfancymoses]

I'm wondering how you would solve this puzzle. I'm looking for a tandem canoe. 1 means unimportant, 5 means very important.
Primary stability ……… 3
Secondary stability ….. 5
Weight ………………… 4
Wind …………………... 4
Waves ………………… 4
Leg room (bow seat) … 3
Material / layup……….. 2
Speed …………………. 3
Capacity ………………. 2

What make/model fits the bill?

 

[yellowcanoe]

Anything from David or Carl Yost. Seaworthiness and sea kindliness are two attributes they tackle the very first. Bow stability is very important.
Ergo any older Bell Tandem. Ted Bells new Northstar Northwind, Swifts Keewaydin 16 or 17

 

[stripperguy]

I have a symmetric, 17 foot stripper design that would fit those criteria. Build it yourself for about $600, it usually comes in between 38 and 42 lbs, depending on trim and how careful you are, or aren't. This is my design.
PM me if you want the plans. Below is my nephew and his build of that design, his is heavy at 42 lbs.
View attachment tJelwcfLj7jSUX9TJDp1qgUP1OTSWBEIbujqHGR29thDrSFroC7I2SVI_IQqeGGfG_RMHxnsnP6sWxIdLeaGLDftZ4aWNczebFkN

 

[Boatman53]

That must be the start of the trip, look at those boots.
Jim

 

[Dagger]

I had a chance to paddle a Northstar's Northwind 16 for a while and really liked it. I think it would fit what you describe very close. As long as price is a 1 or 2 .
Same is true for the Swift boats mentioned above. Another one that could fit the bill well is the Wenonah Spirit II. I have two of them and really like everything about them. Perhaps a tiny bit less initial stability compared to the Northwind. Hard to say. I paddled the Northwind only solo.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Not sure about the Spirit II . Wenonahs typically don't rate a 5 for secondary stability though my Odyssey is fine heeled to the rail. It won't turtle. Haven't paddled the Spirit II. We see very few Wenonahs this far east.

 

[Odyssey]

I'm keeping my eye on this thread. Those canoe soduku numbers posted by Sweetfancymoses represent the ideal canoe to me.
If I were to buy a canoe based on that I'd a) be a very happy paddler, and b) be sleeping in the garden shed from now on.
"There are more important things to spend our money on right now" she says.
Best of luck Sweetfm.

 

[Sweetfancymoses]

Stripperguy, I would really like to build a stripper. Unfortunately, my skill level and my patience are not up to it.

As long as price is a 1 or 2 . Same is true for the Swift boats mentioned above.

Amen!

 

[stripperguy]

Stripperguy, I would really like to build a stripper. Unfortunately, my skill level and my patience are not up to it.

Amen!

Are you sure? I always say if you have the ability to walk upright then you already possess the required skills. If you asked my nephew how his boat, a first time build for him, turned out, he would point out all the flaws, No matter however minor or inconsequential, even though no one else would notice those "flaws". But at 1/5 the cost of a quality production boat, the average person can tolerate many flaws.

And Boatman, no, not the start of the trip! But those were his relatively new Danners...he had been wanting a pair of them for 10 years, finally saved up enough to buy them!!

 

[Guest]

I'm wondering how you would solve this puzzle. I'm looking for a tandem canoe. 1 means unimportant, 5 means very important.
Primary stability ……… 3
Secondary stability ….. 5
Weight ………………… 4
Wind …………………... 4
Waves ………………… 4
Leg room (bow seat) … 3
Material / layup……….. 2
Speed …………………. 3
Capacity ………………. 2

What make/model fits the bill?

New or used? I agree with Kim about the sea kindliness of Yost tandems.

In a used Yost maybe a Bell Morningstar. 15 feet 6 inch, 32 inch center gunwale, 36 inch max (waterline less), sea kindly, decent bow legroom, OK speed, pocket tripper capacity, 40lbs in the lightest lamination (and upwards from there in varying composites).

http://www.lakegeorgekayak.com/bell_canoes_morning-star-canoe.htm

Or maybe a Bell NorthStar, a foot longer and a bit narrower. Neither are common used.

A lot of the other Bell Tandems were 17 ½ to 18 ½ feet and begin to far exceed the 2 score for capacity.

If expense consideration scores a 4 or 5 maybe a used kevlar Malecite. 16 feet 6 inches X 33 inches, sundry weights starting at 40lbs in the Vermont days and forgiving in wind and wave. Along the east coast used Malecites are common enough from New England to the Carolinas, sometimes cheap if the woodwork needs attention. Also not a bad solo with the old third seat option.

http://www.madrivercanoe.com/us/products/malecite-kx

Any other Soduku solutions in the used realm that are not unicorns?

 

[yellowcanoe]

Any other Soduku solutions in the used realm that are not unicorns?

My Sudoku numbers run from 1 to 9.. Ergo 5 is not the max... So any tandem would do!
if it were 1-5 I'd have less trouble with Saturday Sudoko where you get about six blanks filled.

 

[Guest]

My Sudoku numbers run from 1 to 9.. Ergo 5 is not the max...

OK, 1 to a penultimate 9, figuring 10’s represent unattainable canoe perfection. Fortunately that is at least not a base 12 system. Just multiply X2 for a rough importance estimate.

Looking at Sweetfancymoses’ grid I can’t think of a regularly available used canoe that comes closer than the Mad River Malecite.

 

[yellowcanoe]

A whole host of Bell tandem canoes from the past. They come up sometime for sale See CEW post
https://forums.paddling.com/discussion/1131953/david-yost-designs
All the North.... as well as the Hemlock Eagle. Prospectors from Bell and Swift. The Algonquins from Swift..( though they are more for the rec market). The Sawyer Cruiser 222 ( I have the 190 but its fiberglass and heavy and under 16 feet)

 

[Guest]

Prospectors from Bell and Swift.
The Sawyer Cruiser 222 ( I have the 190 but its fiberglass and heavy and under 16 feet)

Prospector hulls seem the reverse of SFM’s Wind 4 and Capacity 2. I was also discounting anything much over 17 feet for similar windage and capacity reasons, although I may be reading “preference” as well as “importance” into those numbers; ie capacity 2 meaning a preference for a less voluminous or less lengthy hull.

There are some mysteries in those puzzle numbers; any preference for max/min length, paddler weights (and heights/wingspan), typical waters/use/river/lake, rocker/tracking/maneuverability? New or used?

SFM could get the canoe Sudoku puzzle up to 9. At least it’s not KenKen.

My thoughts always turn first to a used canoe that would fit the requirements, and some of that is location. Finding a used kev Malecite in Vermont would be a lot easier than finding one in Idaho, or even Minnesota, where Wenonahs reign. Same for turning up a barn find Sawyer in Michigan vs finding one in Oregon (used Clipper maybe?).

I envy folks who live in used canoe rich country across the northern tier from Minnesota to Maine.

I had not thought about a used kevlar Sawyer, which are not used unicorns even here in the mid-Atlantic region, but I am more familiar with Sawyer’s long, lean canoes.

Which Sawyer might best fit SFM’s number puzzle, assuming that doesn’t include 18 foot water rockets?

Or for that matter which Wenonah? Solo Plus? Escapade?

 

[Sweetfancymoses]

I may be reading “preference” as well as “importance” into those numbers.

Importance.

preference for max/min length?

+/- 17'

paddler weights (and heights/wingspan)?

Short and stocky (I have a doctor's appointment next week. Please don't make me get into details.)

typical waters/use/river/lake?

Small lakes/big lakes

rocker/tracking/maneuverability?

Minimal / 4 / 3

New or used?

Either



Thanks to all of your replies I have a pretty wide net to cast now.

 

[Sweetfancymoses]

My Sudoku numbers run from 1 to 9.

Good point. I have never been known to get my metaphors right.

 

[Sweetfancymoses]

Are you sure? I always say if you have the ability to walk upright then you already possess the required skills. If you asked my nephew how his boat, a first time build for him, turned out, he would point out all the flaws, No matter however minor or inconsequential, even though no one else would notice those "flaws". But at 1/5 the cost of a quality production boat, the average person can tolerate many flaws.

You're right. I'm bad about that. The flaws on my recanvassing job still bother me. Maybe one day I'll give it a try. I see used strongbacks on craigslist from time to time.

 

[Nodrama43]

No Title

Northstar Polaris which is a Bell Northstar increased in length by 3 inches. I really like mine.

 

[Guest]

+/- 17'


Small lakes/big lakes


Minimal / 4 / 3


Thanks to all of your replies I have a pretty wide net to cast now.

My misassumptions about shorter length stretched to 17+ feet beings a much greater selection of used kevlar canoes into play, and minimal rocker hard tracking lake boats widens the possible selection to include a lot of Sawyer and Wenonah canoes.

In what region is your geographic net cast? I know there are habitual Craigslist lookers here on CT, and while a 17 ½ foot kevlar tandem holds no interest for me I would keep an eye peeled while looking for a derelict to shop soloize.

I am not trying to push for a used canoe (well, maybe a little), but if you have the winter months to search there are some very nice used kevlar tandems that meet all or most of that puzzle for thousands less than a new canoe.

Plus it is always interesting to hear different folk’s take on older model or discontinued hulls.

 

[Sweetfancymoses]

I'm at the south end of the canoe heartland here in Indiana. I updated my search parameters at paddleswap. Maybe something comes up in the next couple of months. The key seems to be quick on the draw when an opportunity arises. Thanks to everyone for your input.