Need help in deciding where to put a extra seat. I have a Bell Magic that I put a slider seat in so I can easily move the seat back 20 inches from its original position. I want to add a seat for a 60 pound person. I weigh 185 pounds. Where do I put the new seat? Is it as simple as keep the 2 lever arms the same? (185 X 20)/60 = 62 inches. That would be 62 inches in front of the original seat position. That would be too far forward to be comfortable but I think that would be where the canoe would be trimmed correctly. Comments?
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Canoe modifications.
- Thread starter MagicPaddler
- Start date
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Guest
I’ll assume your desire is to take a kid bowman along in the Magic occasionally. I’d skip the math calculations and seat the kid on something temporary that approximates the seat height, like an upside down plastic milk crate or etc. Put some split foam pipe insulation on the bottom of the milk crate so it doesn’t slide around.
Try a couple of locations with both the milk crate and sliding seat position, with an eye towards the kid getting bigger/heavier over time, mark the best test fit location and put the seat there.
They do make a adjustable seat that can be mounted temporarily.
I have one it's aluminum, with a closed cell foam. I'll have to dig it out and post a pic.
I thin it would be better than scaring up the trim on a valuable Magic.
Jim
I have one it's aluminum, with a closed cell foam. I'll have to dig it out and post a pic.
I thin it would be better than scaring up the trim on a valuable Magic.
Jim
G
Guest
Guest
Jim, I was thinking just that when I hit post.
If the Magic has aluminum gunwales one possibility would be to install aluminum plate style hangers riveted in place, and if the time came to remove the seat just drill out the rivets and return the Magic to a dedicated solo.
Wenonah canoe seat bracket
http://www.rutabaga.com/wenonah-canoe-seat-hanging-bracket-black
When my sons were small we tried a couple of different manufactured temporary seats with little satisfaction, but that was 20 years ago and perhaps the designs have improved.
Lessee... The kid is old enough to paddle. He is not small. He is probably nine or so. He will probably want not to be duffel but high enough to paddle. The trouble is that the paddling station in a Magic when someone is in the bow is too narrow for bow paddler stability. The position of the head is paramount and if he is high enough in the boat to paddle,there is very little room for lateral motion of the head. Ergo you see the principle of lever arm tip over in action. David Yost says that most capsizes are due to bow paddler instability. No way will he be able to kneel if the going gets rough.
Charlie can tell you if the bow is reinforced correctly to support any weight dragging down the gunwales.
There is a possiblity that the layup is stronger in the middle than toward the stems. In any case the Magic will have weight on the ends and very little in the middle. I'm extrapolating the consequence as making the boat very difficult to manuever and in waves an extremely wet ride.
I would put a kibosh in this once and for all. If he were four things would be different. He is not. For his safety and yours get him his own boat.
Test driving with a milk crate first is what I might try if the water were warm and all wearing PFD's and in a safe place close to shore.
Charlie can tell you if the bow is reinforced correctly to support any weight dragging down the gunwales.
There is a possiblity that the layup is stronger in the middle than toward the stems. In any case the Magic will have weight on the ends and very little in the middle. I'm extrapolating the consequence as making the boat very difficult to manuever and in waves an extremely wet ride.
I would put a kibosh in this once and for all. If he were four things would be different. He is not. For his safety and yours get him his own boat.
Test driving with a milk crate first is what I might try if the water were warm and all wearing PFD's and in a safe place close to shore.
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Yellow canoe
Talk to me about stability. Ignoring the ability to paddle from this height for now. If I put his seat the same distance from the floor as my seat is and having very little rocker difference between where his seat is and mine is that going to upset my stability?
I appreciate every ones help. I will get to the how to hang it suggestions later.
MagicPaddler
Talk to me about stability. Ignoring the ability to paddle from this height for now. If I put his seat the same distance from the floor as my seat is and having very little rocker difference between where his seat is and mine is that going to upset my stability?
I appreciate every ones help. I will get to the how to hang it suggestions later.
MagicPaddler
No Title
Its going to affect your steering the farther apart you are. I have paddled a Magic with the dog standing in the bow. ( she wouldn't sit down..The bottom was wet. She is a princess) Hence all the weight was in the bow though the trim in the boat was even ( I had a lot of stuff in the stern). I could not steer at all. Worse was a stern wind.. just spun around. ( and I was in no position to weight the stern more with the dog in the middle of Lac Antostagan)
I learned later that Swedeform boats ( wide spot aft of the center than in front of center are very trim sensitive. ) that is what you have ,a swedeform boat. I hear that you are trying to even the trim bu putting your child as far forward as possible. But this gives the kid very little leeway with his head. He cannot safely turn his head around and say " I am having a great time" . That motion will put his head over the gunwale and give you at least a little scare.. hopefully you can counter weight with a little lean to the other side.
The most stable station in the canoe is at your normal seating position. The dimensions just don't allow the Magic to be a tandem. Sure some solos have been used for a tandem but for very small kids. The Mohawk 14 is ideal for two four to six year olds to paddle their own canoe. Its a wide box that Mohawk 14 but fun!
You can put the child near you then try to paddle. I beseech you to try to encourage the child to paddle. If you can do that close together in the center, I don't know. Thats why the milk crate that is movable is a good place you to start. You say your trim will be off. but you can put lunch in the bow or something else.
If you look at whitewater tandem teams they are close together. Flatwater of course not so much. But there is sufficient width at the bow paddling station to allow a turn of the head without getting wet. Better designs have a lot of bow flare in the hull so the bow paddler does not get soaked and flare adds stability. I don't think the Magic has much bow flare.. so go look and see on yours.
You know you are on canoewoodworking.net and someone can surely help you build an appropriate size solo for your youngster. Or find a small tandem; that gives the kid more room.
And remember that kids never seem to shrink.. My 9 year old grandson is finally growing and has grown about six inches this last year . His older 13 year old brother well we gave up. He went from size 8 shoes to 12s and wears a mens 30 jean and went from five feet to five eight this last year.
We all want to see kids on the water!
You have a highly adjustable seat.. can you describe the difference in handling when its far back and far forward?
Its going to affect your steering the farther apart you are. I have paddled a Magic with the dog standing in the bow. ( she wouldn't sit down..The bottom was wet. She is a princess) Hence all the weight was in the bow though the trim in the boat was even ( I had a lot of stuff in the stern). I could not steer at all. Worse was a stern wind.. just spun around. ( and I was in no position to weight the stern more with the dog in the middle of Lac Antostagan)
I learned later that Swedeform boats ( wide spot aft of the center than in front of center are very trim sensitive. ) that is what you have ,a swedeform boat. I hear that you are trying to even the trim bu putting your child as far forward as possible. But this gives the kid very little leeway with his head. He cannot safely turn his head around and say " I am having a great time" . That motion will put his head over the gunwale and give you at least a little scare.. hopefully you can counter weight with a little lean to the other side.
The most stable station in the canoe is at your normal seating position. The dimensions just don't allow the Magic to be a tandem. Sure some solos have been used for a tandem but for very small kids. The Mohawk 14 is ideal for two four to six year olds to paddle their own canoe. Its a wide box that Mohawk 14 but fun!
You can put the child near you then try to paddle. I beseech you to try to encourage the child to paddle. If you can do that close together in the center, I don't know. Thats why the milk crate that is movable is a good place you to start. You say your trim will be off. but you can put lunch in the bow or something else.
If you look at whitewater tandem teams they are close together. Flatwater of course not so much. But there is sufficient width at the bow paddling station to allow a turn of the head without getting wet. Better designs have a lot of bow flare in the hull so the bow paddler does not get soaked and flare adds stability. I don't think the Magic has much bow flare.. so go look and see on yours.
You know you are on canoewoodworking.net and someone can surely help you build an appropriate size solo for your youngster. Or find a small tandem; that gives the kid more room.
And remember that kids never seem to shrink.. My 9 year old grandson is finally growing and has grown about six inches this last year . His older 13 year old brother well we gave up. He went from size 8 shoes to 12s and wears a mens 30 jean and went from five feet to five eight this last year.
We all want to see kids on the water!
You have a highly adjustable seat.. can you describe the difference in handling when its far back and far forward?
Attachments
And I would not hang any seat. You will draw down the gunwales and decrease rocker. The Magic is already a hard tracker. Its not reinforced to resist additional weight on the gunwales forward, AFAIK (It probably has some belly bands under the central paddling station).
Yellowcanoe
You are correct I cannot/should not put him far enough forward to balance the trim. Why? What you said plus there would be no place for his feet.
Three years ago I took a different kid (A little bigger kit but not much maybe 80 Lb) for an afternoon paddle on a local river. We used the milk crate idea (actually a foam block) and set it a couple of inches in front of the thwart (about 45 inches in front of the original seat position). At that location the widest spot in the canoe is 24 inches verses 28.5 at the original location. You can’t use the gunnel width because this boat has a fair amount of tumblehome in the center. We chased people up and down the river and had a good time with no scary moments. To trim the boat I moved forward from the full back position. Kind of what you said to do. We had no other gear in the boat. Your comments on stability prodded me to go find that foam block. It is 4 inches and we had about 1 inch pad on top of it. I was considering mounting the seat 7 inches above the floor but I don’t think that is a good idea as a starting point.
You ask about flare the magic tends to cut through waves rather than have the nose stay on top of the water.
This will be the first time the young man has been canoeing, camping, or fishing and do not know if this will be an annual event or a one time so I don’t want to spend a lot on gear yet.
I am going to set the canoe on a flat floor and put a board across the gunnels at the location where I may mount a seat and measure the distance from the board to the bottom of the canoe. Then put 100Lbs on the board and do the measurement again and compare it to what happens at the original seat position.
You ask about handling with different seat positions well not what I expected. I thought that moving the steering force (my paddle) out on a lever arm would make the canoe turn easier. I put my gear in the front and scooted the seat back. It wasn’t a disaster but it did not make it turn much different. The biggest thing I noticed was the wind had more effect.
MagicPaddler
You are correct I cannot/should not put him far enough forward to balance the trim. Why? What you said plus there would be no place for his feet.
Three years ago I took a different kid (A little bigger kit but not much maybe 80 Lb) for an afternoon paddle on a local river. We used the milk crate idea (actually a foam block) and set it a couple of inches in front of the thwart (about 45 inches in front of the original seat position). At that location the widest spot in the canoe is 24 inches verses 28.5 at the original location. You can’t use the gunnel width because this boat has a fair amount of tumblehome in the center. We chased people up and down the river and had a good time with no scary moments. To trim the boat I moved forward from the full back position. Kind of what you said to do. We had no other gear in the boat. Your comments on stability prodded me to go find that foam block. It is 4 inches and we had about 1 inch pad on top of it. I was considering mounting the seat 7 inches above the floor but I don’t think that is a good idea as a starting point.
You ask about flare the magic tends to cut through waves rather than have the nose stay on top of the water.
This will be the first time the young man has been canoeing, camping, or fishing and do not know if this will be an annual event or a one time so I don’t want to spend a lot on gear yet.
I am going to set the canoe on a flat floor and put a board across the gunnels at the location where I may mount a seat and measure the distance from the board to the bottom of the canoe. Then put 100Lbs on the board and do the measurement again and compare it to what happens at the original seat position.
You ask about handling with different seat positions well not what I expected. I thought that moving the steering force (my paddle) out on a lever arm would make the canoe turn easier. I put my gear in the front and scooted the seat back. It wasn’t a disaster but it did not make it turn much different. The biggest thing I noticed was the wind had more effect.
MagicPaddler
You ( and I ) want this young man to have a positive experience. I think the milk crate works well to move fore and aft. too far aft is better than too far forward. Just don't commit to a permanent set up. And keep him low. Is he going to paddle? Please? ( its a bugaboo of mine that kids aren't thought of as old enough to paddle! and that may not apply to you at all.)
Yellowcanoe
He will paddle. I know his personality good enough to know he will want to paddle. One of my next challenges is finding a paddle the correct size because most of mine are too long for me. My neighbor may have one I just have not asked yet.
We are going on a 7 day trip and I don’t like the milk crate option for that long so I want to mount something. We also will not have access to many tools. Looking at the link supplied by Mike McCrea I saw the advantages of using one of those rather than other ways of mounting on the gunnels. Magic’s gunnels are pop riveted on but the outside of the rivet is hidden. So if I add rivets they would only show on the inside under the gunnel.
Here is my present plan. I may move the thwart back to provide more room or the seat may go where he can lean back against the thwart. I can mount the gunnel in a new place on brackets pop riveted in under the gunnel (no holes in the top of the gunnel). To mount the seat I will pop rivet in flat pieces of aluminum about the size and shape of the ones in Mike’s link. There will be several sets of holes at different heights where right angle brackets can be mounted. The seat will set on the brackets and the brackets will be held on with screws and wing nuts. I think he would be more comfortable paddling from a higher (7 inches) seat position but I know the canoe will be stable in the lower position. On day one we will have gear in the canoe giving more options for trimming the boat and the seat will be low. After we get to a camp site we will try the boat out without much gear and see if after raising the seat we still have a good ride. I would like to have enough space behind the seat so he could turn around on the seat while fishing so I could land the first few fish he catches.
Mike McCrea
I like the milk crate idea but I don’t have access to the kid until we are on a 7 day trip. Your link for the Wenonah seat bracket would work but better than that it gave me the idea for making a vertically adjustable seat bracket and how to mount it without drilling holes in the top of the gunnel.
Jim and Mike
As far as scarring up the Magic it has a few scars already. I love the boat and have been fairly protective of it. I bought it 25 + years ago and it was brand new but damaged in shipping. I think it fell off the truck and was dragged behind for a couple of miles. With a skid plate kit and some epoxy I got it to hold water. It still holds water. Thanks for the seat mounting ideas. I was looking at ways of clamping to the gunnels so I would not need to drill holes in the top of the gunnel.
MagicPaddler
He will paddle. I know his personality good enough to know he will want to paddle. One of my next challenges is finding a paddle the correct size because most of mine are too long for me. My neighbor may have one I just have not asked yet.
We are going on a 7 day trip and I don’t like the milk crate option for that long so I want to mount something. We also will not have access to many tools. Looking at the link supplied by Mike McCrea I saw the advantages of using one of those rather than other ways of mounting on the gunnels. Magic’s gunnels are pop riveted on but the outside of the rivet is hidden. So if I add rivets they would only show on the inside under the gunnel.
Here is my present plan. I may move the thwart back to provide more room or the seat may go where he can lean back against the thwart. I can mount the gunnel in a new place on brackets pop riveted in under the gunnel (no holes in the top of the gunnel). To mount the seat I will pop rivet in flat pieces of aluminum about the size and shape of the ones in Mike’s link. There will be several sets of holes at different heights where right angle brackets can be mounted. The seat will set on the brackets and the brackets will be held on with screws and wing nuts. I think he would be more comfortable paddling from a higher (7 inches) seat position but I know the canoe will be stable in the lower position. On day one we will have gear in the canoe giving more options for trimming the boat and the seat will be low. After we get to a camp site we will try the boat out without much gear and see if after raising the seat we still have a good ride. I would like to have enough space behind the seat so he could turn around on the seat while fishing so I could land the first few fish he catches.
Mike McCrea
I like the milk crate idea but I don’t have access to the kid until we are on a 7 day trip. Your link for the Wenonah seat bracket would work but better than that it gave me the idea for making a vertically adjustable seat bracket and how to mount it without drilling holes in the top of the gunnel.
Jim and Mike
As far as scarring up the Magic it has a few scars already. I love the boat and have been fairly protective of it. I bought it 25 + years ago and it was brand new but damaged in shipping. I think it fell off the truck and was dragged behind for a couple of miles. With a skid plate kit and some epoxy I got it to hold water. It still holds water. Thanks for the seat mounting ideas. I was looking at ways of clamping to the gunnels so I would not need to drill holes in the top of the gunnel.
MagicPaddler
I am totally speechless. I hope I do not read about your trip in anything other than a trip report.
I am withdrawing from this discussion as it seems you will do what you want to.
Its not my trip and my opinion is not important but I wanted to share some wisdom that I learned from the Magic designer, David Yost.
I am withdrawing from this discussion as it seems you will do what you want to.
Its not my trip and my opinion is not important but I wanted to share some wisdom that I learned from the Magic designer, David Yost.
I would not do the trip if I did not have confidence that the boat would be stable. I have confidence because I have had a larger kid in that location in that canoe.
I did the weight test on the gunnels. With the canoe setting in the grass I used buckets of water which weighed a total of 102.3 pounds. At the original seat position I measured 5/16 flex and at the proposed second seat position I measured ¼ inch flex. It is with in the margin of error.
I am going to look into using “Rivet Nut Inserts” rather than pop rivets.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-rivet-nuts/=11nxe61
Those would make changing back and forth easy.
I did the weight test on the gunnels. With the canoe setting in the grass I used buckets of water which weighed a total of 102.3 pounds. At the original seat position I measured 5/16 flex and at the proposed second seat position I measured ¼ inch flex. It is with in the margin of error.
I am going to look into using “Rivet Nut Inserts” rather than pop rivets.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-rivet-nuts/=11nxe61
Those would make changing back and forth easy.
I'd think that test would be more stressful than real life. In the water the canoe is supported over a wide area by the water that it's floating on. On the ground all the pressure is on a small point. There is also more give (bounce) in the water than on land.
I've used those rivet nut inserts (the first ones shown on the page you linked) for other projects and they're really handy. Just make sure they're designed to work with the the combined hull/gunwale thickness. We keep some on hand at the shop and I've tried using them on thin metal (car roofs) and they won't draw down tight enough. Presumably they have different sizes/designs for different material thicknesses.
Alan
I looked closer at the website and the rivet nuts all say for .030" or thicker material. I have a piece of scrap Bell gunwale material in the shop. If I can remember tonight I measure the thickness.
Alan
Alan
G
Guest
Guest
As far as having a bracket mounted seat somewhat height adjustable have a look at this link. Scroll to the bottom of the link for a photo illustration of how Mohawk’s seat brackets adjustable for height.
https://mohawkcanoes.com/products/seats-seat-backs/
I can not address whether your Magic has enough structural rigidity along the sheer to accommodate a hung seat; I have no clue about the layup schedule, partials and etc were used in Bell’s various Fiberlar/KevKrystal/etc composites over the years, or whether a seat hung from aluminum rails mounted close to the front thwart would damage the hull with a 60lb load. I tend to doubt it; it works as adult seating with Wenonah’s ultra-light kevlar layups and seats hung close to thwarts.
Having somewhat hesitantly offered a boat tinkerers suggest to your specific question I will join in offering a strong word of caution about adding a paddling height bow seat to a narrow gunwale canoe like the Magic. The difficulty there, in fact the danger, is that for shortstuff to reach the water effectively with a kid sized paddle the seat will need to be mounted fairly high in the narrowing confines of the bow, and one of the quickest and surest ways to capsize a canoe is to get the paddler’s head out beyond the gunwale.
If the kid was going to be a passenger lump, a non-paddling “duffle” seated low in the bow, that head-past-the-gunwales stability issue would be less of a concern.
The flip side of that non-paddler passenger lump solution is likely a bored and disinterested kid. The scenario solution changes between a one time or maybe annual trip (I was picturing a day paddle outing) and a weeklong effort, especially without a pre-trip test. Think kid reaching out for something in the water, crossing a strong eddyline, broadside wave, moment of inattention.
It’s not my place to tell anyone what they should or should not do with their canoe, but committing to a weeklong trip, with a child bowman, using an untested boat modification in a narrow hull like the Magic, without prior proof of concept would present too many risky unknowns for me.
I will offer this from the perspective of raising two sons from toddler age in the bow of tripping canoes. We first started off with them as mid-ship passenger lumps, seated low in the belly of a tandem and they were quickly bored, disinterested and grumpy. Our solution was to put them in the front of a symmetrical tandem paddled bow backwards (ie, with the adult in the bow seat facing the stern).
That trimmed the canoe and put them in seat that was high enough for them to actually paddle to some effect, sitting between gunwales far enough apart to eliminate the probability of a head-over-gunwales ooops.
When they outgrew those narrow confines we flipped the canoes around bow forwards and got a few more years use out of those boats before each son went into their own small solo pack canoe (Old Town Rushton and Dagger Tupelo). At that point they had some years of paddling practice and were comfortable and confident paddling solo.
One happy result of that solution was that both, now in their twenties, still enjoy paddling.
We started in the most plebian hulls around, an Old Town Camper and Pathfinder. Not fast, not sexy, but they worked well for a decade when we family paddled together every month of the year.
It is not the solution you sought, but could you borrow or rent a symmetrical tandem for this week long trip? A design that lacks a thwart immediately behind the bow seat will swap ends without modification.
I too would like to see you and the kid have a safe and enjoyable trip, and maybe start a kid on a lifetime of paddling. I believe that the bow backwards tandem, borrowed, rented or even Chicago Craigslist used, would be your happiest and safest solution.
If you were closer I would lend you one myself.
Alan
You say you have a piece of Bell gunnel material. I need some dimensions. The rivet nuts are .355 inches long before instillation. I need to know if there is enough space on the inside of the gunnel for the uncompressed rivet. Can you stand the gunnel on end and lay a coin on it and take a picture or lay the gunnel on a table and stand a ruler up beside it and take a picture. What I am trying to get is a measurable cross section.
Mike
Your link does provide another possible way to make a height adjustable seat.
Because of the height of the kid seat that I have experience with this seat will start off at that height. That puts him low enough to not be optimum for him to paddle but the canoe will be stable. It most likely will be a wet ride in waves so we will stay out of the waves. There is no moving water on this trip.
Several times a tandem boat has been suggested and I keep thinking of the tandems I have owned. I shudder to think of going back to paddling one of those wind catching water pushing barges. I got back into a 17 foot 80 pound wind catching water pushing barge 2 years ago and paddled it solo for 14 days. When I read the word tandem my brain translates that to mean “wind catching water pushing heavy barge”. OK maybe all tandems are not wind catching water pushing heavy barges. I will do some looking for a smaller tandem something the size of a Wenonah Solo Plus.
MagicPaddler
You say you have a piece of Bell gunnel material. I need some dimensions. The rivet nuts are .355 inches long before instillation. I need to know if there is enough space on the inside of the gunnel for the uncompressed rivet. Can you stand the gunnel on end and lay a coin on it and take a picture or lay the gunnel on a table and stand a ruler up beside it and take a picture. What I am trying to get is a measurable cross section.
Mike
Your link does provide another possible way to make a height adjustable seat.
Because of the height of the kid seat that I have experience with this seat will start off at that height. That puts him low enough to not be optimum for him to paddle but the canoe will be stable. It most likely will be a wet ride in waves so we will stay out of the waves. There is no moving water on this trip.
Several times a tandem boat has been suggested and I keep thinking of the tandems I have owned. I shudder to think of going back to paddling one of those wind catching water pushing barges. I got back into a 17 foot 80 pound wind catching water pushing barge 2 years ago and paddled it solo for 14 days. When I read the word tandem my brain translates that to mean “wind catching water pushing heavy barge”. OK maybe all tandems are not wind catching water pushing heavy barges. I will do some looking for a smaller tandem something the size of a Wenonah Solo Plus.
MagicPaddler
I'll take some pictures of the gunwales with measurements tonight.
As for tandem canoes I agree they aren't very fun to paddle solo, especially in the wind. But using a 17' 80 pound hog paddled solo as a frame of reference is hardly fair. There are many tandems out there that are svelte and lightweight and would most likely outperform your Magic in any condition for the purpose you're proposing.
Something like the old Bell Northstar, now known as the Northstar Polaris, springs to mind as does the Mad River Malecite.
Alan
As for tandem canoes I agree they aren't very fun to paddle solo, especially in the wind. But using a 17' 80 pound hog paddled solo as a frame of reference is hardly fair. There are many tandems out there that are svelte and lightweight and would most likely outperform your Magic in any condition for the purpose you're proposing.
Something like the old Bell Northstar, now known as the Northstar Polaris, springs to mind as does the Mad River Malecite.
Alan
Alan
Thanks I just did some looking at the local used market over did not find what I was looking for. I did go on the new Bell Northstar site and look at the Northwind 16. Does not hurt to dream.
Looking forward to seeing the pictures.
MagicPaddler
Thanks I just did some looking at the local used market over did not find what I was looking for. I did go on the new Bell Northstar site and look at the Northwind 16. Does not hurt to dream.
Looking forward to seeing the pictures.
MagicPaddler
G
Guest
Guest
If bow seating the Magic turns out to be the solution some form of easily adjustable along the way elevation would be ideal, especially since you won’t know beforehand what works best.
Wenonah also sells no-tools adjustable slotted seat hangers. These. DIY able if you have metal working skills and don’t mind some cutting and grinding.
http://www.rutabaga.com/wenonah-canoe-adjustable-seat-hangers
I am not fond of the rattling and sloppiness of that design, but they provide a couple inches of up-down adjustment.
A simple solution might be set a fixed bench seat low in place and carry a couple (or three, four. . . ) 1 inch think pieces of seat-sized minice,l and a couple of ladder lock straps to cinch them tightly in place around the frame.
heck, bring a piece of Dragonskin along and slowly, nightly, carve out a kid butt-shaped contour in the minicel. Next year make it a little bigger. There’s a PawPaw memory his therapist will dredge up in twenty years.
BTW, any seat solution needs to be firmly stationary enough that it cannot shift side to side. Suddenly sliding to one side equals counting fishies.
Or not all that unknown trail and error. Just find a symmetrical tandem to use.
Well, if a kid bow padldler and a week’s worth of 2-person gear and food is gonna fit it a Magic then a pocket-tandem canoe need not be 17 feet long, nor 80 lbs, nor as high stemmed or deep as many tandems. Just an extra inch at center depth and stems of a small tandem makes a huge difference in comfort and kindliness.
If you are eyeing/buying something used the Solo Plus would work. I can’t remember the last one I saw for sale (that says something), but they are not an uncommon livery/rental boat.
You would need to trim the Solo Plus with gear weight instead of paddling it bow-backwards, it is asymmetrical bow and stern and has a thwart immediately behind the bow thwart. It is though a fine solo/tandem compromise canoe.
I have no idea about your packing style with child along. You, the kid, a week’s gear and food for two. Some extra kid clothes (mine once soaked two sets on trip.. . . .before we even managed to launch the boats). How well is that going to fit with tandem foot room and freeboard in the Magic?
BTW, leave a full set of dry kid clothes at the take out. Maybe two. Trust me.
For what it’s worth Bell’s catalog displacement for the Magic:
2 inch waterline 150lbs
3 inch waterline 240 lbs
4 inch waterline 340 lbs
I still think a bow backwards pocket tandem, especially with a 60 lb bow kid, is the way to go.
