buying used

Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
142
Reaction score
3
Location
minnesota
What if, you bought a used canoe, and when you registered it with the state, they run the hull number, and find out its been stolen? I havent bought a used canoe, nor do i know how the registration process works, but i was curious..............
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
6,534
Reaction score
575
Location
Raymond, ME
I don't know either.. what state are you looking at. Do you need a title too? If so that would be reassuring

Still not sure where you are..such info would be helpful. I don't know if states keep such records of stolen craft HIN's as far as canoes go, being low value items. You of course can check for an altered HIN. It ought to be crisp and clean unless the boat is very old where sometimes it gets tough

I have bought used but always locally and almost always from paddlers I know from long Internet forum exchanges.

If you did buy a hot boat of course you would lose it if discovered. Its good to know the expected price that you ought to pay. If it sounds too good, it could be.

I have owned some thirty canoes and most of them bought used. Not a problem yet.
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
142
Reaction score
3
Location
minnesota
Live in minnesota. No title required in MN. I only know that a person takes the HIN to the license office and register it. Canoe I was interested in is located in minneapolis, 150 miles away. I guess a person could call the guy and ask for the number and have it checked out first.
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
6,534
Reaction score
575
Location
Raymond, ME
I recommend going to it. Look at the HIN yourself and see if it was tampered with. Also post on BWCA.com to find out if anyone there knows the seller. If its up for sale by a paddler, you are likely quite safe.
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
44
Reaction score
0
Location
Hickory, NC
In NC no registration or title required for a canoe, but I do have my certificate from Mad River in a safe place so that I have my serial # and proof it belongs to me.
 
Joined
Jul 25, 2012
Messages
838
Reaction score
2
I wonder what checks your friendly neighborhood canoe dealer, who also offers used canoes, go through? If you get a bill of sale at least it proves you didn't steal the canoe, that and maybe a license plate number of the guy's car, photos from your first visit (taken so you can go home and show your wife) all together taken with you when you check with the police, should absolutely put you in the clear.
I'd think so anyway, but I can't promise to visit you if you wind up in the clink.

Good luck, Rob
 
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
425
Reaction score
10
Location
Maryland, USA
You may have proof you bought the boat legitimately but the boat will be taken from you and returned to the original owner if it was stolen property.
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2012
Messages
1,189
Reaction score
55
Location
Alburnett Iowa
If it is already registered to the seller in your state it should be legit and you shouldn't have any trouble transferring it. Check his registration.
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Messages
260
Reaction score
10
Location
Middle of the Florida paddling paradise
Asking for the serial number before driving 150 miles is probably very smart. You most likely be able to get a very active idea of the canoes age, make, and model besides being able to check for theft. Just search internet with manufactures name and the term "serial number". Often I find that people posting on Craigs list do not really know what they have. Often see Rolex boats listed as fiberglass and the other way around. Also pictures of the keel, bow and stern would be important to see for wear.

Now having said that the other night after seeing some very bad quality pictures on Craigs list I had called the man and was on the road in less than 15 minutes for a two hour drive each way. Ended up with my latest canoe. Will launch it today for the first time. Just got to find my Michal Martian Murphy CD with the song Wild Fire and get that cheap bottle of champagne to break on the bow. Why Wild Fire? Because after three years of daily searches on Craigs list I found a Bell Wildfire I could afford. One of the boats on my wish list for a "NEW" used solo. Good Hunting.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
Location
Newfoundland
What if, you bought a used canoe, and when you registered it with the state, they run the hull number, and find out its been stolen? I havent bought a used canoe, nor do i know how the registration process works, but i was curious..............

You could very well be charged with possession of stolen property.
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
6,534
Reaction score
575
Location
Raymond, ME
After reading all this I would stay in side and never buy a canoe! Sure theft happens but is it all that common? Have I been living a life of ignorant bliss? Who has been cited for possession of a hot canoe? Maybe the police have done that..but I haven't ever read of that.

Prioritizing the worry list, this seems way at the bottom.
 
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
1,849
Reaction score
314
Location
Schenectady, NY
Hmmm....here in NYS, a canoe need only be registered if it will have a motor on it.
Registration is straight forward, as long as there is a HIN and proof of ownership.
A few years back, I built a 19 ft sailboat that I thought I might need to register. The process to get a HIN (Hull Identification Number) was extensive. I had to file a form to ask for an inspection, prove that the boat was indeed built by me, and a NYS trooper came by to inspect and verify. I had to supply original receipts for the major components. Only when all criteria were satisfied was I issued a HIN, which had to be permanently etched or attached to the hull in two places. One was a "hidden" location that only I and the inspector would know.

An altered or missing HIN on a production boat would be a big red flag...other than that, I wouldn't be suspicious about buying a used canoe.
 
G

Guest

Guest
I have bought a ton of used boats. I figure if I know where the person works/lives and their name they are probably legit. In my area people tend to post if a boat of theirs has been stolen so I have not really worried about this too much. But I do keep an eye on any stolen boat threads.
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
1,092
Reaction score
109
Location
central NYS - 10 miles from the Baseball Hall of F
As stripperguy already mentioned you don't need to register a non-motorized boat here in NYS but if the authorities (i.e. state police, county sheriff, etc.) discovered the boat had been stolen from the original owner you'd end up loosing the boat; no questions asked.

That's all for now. Take care and good luck in your search for a canoe. Until next time...Be well.

snapper
 

Glenn MacGrady

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
2,150
Reaction score
540
Location
Connecticut
Meopilite, you have been asking questions about taxes and theft. I strongly suggest that this forum is not an appropriate place, and certainly not an accurate place, to get advice on these subjects.

Just on the stolen canoe issue, I doubt anyone here is capable of giving valid advice on the common law writs of replevin and trover, the nemo dat quod non habet principle, the "theft rule", the "Market Overt" rule, the "voidable title" exception, the "entrustment" exception, or any of the other legal principles and sub-principles that may differentially apply in the 50 states of the United States and the different legal jurisdictions in Canada.

Most people buy used products all the time, including canoes, without encountering any legal problems. But if you have some concern that warrants accurate advice, I recommend you seek counsel from a lawyer in the appropriate jurisdiction.
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
Location
Newfoundland
Meopilite, you have been asking questions about taxes and theft. I strongly suggest that this forum is not an appropriate place, and certainly not an accurate place, to get advice on these subjects.


Well there may be people on this forum that have experience with this. Or there may be members that are lawyers, police officers or even law makers themselves. I wouldn't say this forum isn't the right or wrong place. There may be other more informative places, but still doesn't hurt to chit chat with your fellow forum members. :)
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Messages
50
Reaction score
1
Location
Southeast Wisconsin
Just on the stolen canoe issue, I doubt anyone here is capable of giving valid advice on the common law writs of replevin and trover, the nemo dat quod non habet principle, the "theft rule", the "Market Overt" rule, the "voidable title" exception, the "entrustment" exception, or any of the other legal principles and sub-principles that may differentially apply in the 50 states of the United States and the different legal jurisdictions in Canada.

Glenn, I'm glad you got THAT out of your system! It can become quite complicated. BTW, I have also been wary of buying used especially in the current economic climate we are it. A call to your registration bureau (WIDNR in Wisconsin) is a good idea and better if you get the HIN before you buy. Know your applicable laws and if you move to another state, know those, too. Unfortunately, for those that have boats stolen from them there is little coordination between states and the best criminals know the laws better than we do. I did check with MN and WI DNR's on a couple of boats and had several "Huhs?" from some CO's.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
6,534
Reaction score
575
Location
Raymond, ME
Jazzman you know better than to quibble with a lawyer. The OP is certainly thinking things through and the fact that we can't say what to do speaks a bit about a non event happening.

Canoes arent high ticket items.. not very portable and not very fenceable. Most thefts I have heard of happen at large events like the West River festival..

Worry if you wish..but put the worry in perspective.
 
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
Messages
3,486
Reaction score
854
Canoe theft is not unknown. I have had one stolen, but insurance covered it for more than it was worth. It was stolen out of my friend's yard, but my home insurance covered it. A friend of mine had a special order in for the latest kevlar prospector from a company down Toronto way. When the canoe was ready, it was placed on a big truck with a lot of other canoes for transport to the retailer. It was stolen off the truck. The company apologized profusely and got another one in the works for him, He was headed down to Toronto anyway, so he said he would pick it up. He had it on top of his truck for about two hours, then parked at a motel, and the canoe was stolen in a matter of minutes.

However, when buying used canoes, I have never wondered once if they were stolen, as the people are usually canoe people, and not prone to mafia style deals.
 
Joined
Jul 25, 2012
Messages
838
Reaction score
2
"Worries in perspective" glad you brought that up Y.C., I've always wanted to ask: why are the worries that come in the middle of the night and wake me up (maybe others too?) once morning comes seem to not matter a hill of beans? But the lost sleep was something I would have prized. And then dagnabbit, who's in charge of dreams anyway? I've been good, why can't I have some pleasant dreams? Instead is a kaleidoscope of mucky rubish that seems pointless.

There! That feels better. Glenn's right; venting feels good, probably doesn't do anything for a person's social standing though.

Now, about the original question: How often do you buy a canoe? Not very often.
Of all the canoes that are, how many are you really interested in? Not that many.
How many interesting canoes are offered used? Fewer yet.
How often is a canoe you want offered and there you ARE! Just about never.

But if the nearly impossible happens; look at the seller. You've been evaluating people all your life, does the guy look on the up and up?
Does he look like a up-to-no-good-nick? Geez Louise! If in doubt slow down (good advice for any purchase) and check it out.

All those words Glenn; I suspect that's the kind of thing that's helped established the lawyer's level of popularity.

Best Wishes, Rob
 
Top