bell wildfire

[mdkelley]

so, I have an appt scheduled to go test paddle a new nw solo and phoenix tomorrow. A bell wildfire composite (~37lbs?) in nice shape just popped up for sale not too far away for $1k. Everything I read about the wildfire is good. The thought of saving ~$3k over a new boat is nice, it would weigh a few lbs more vs new but not a terrible amount more. I am 6'0" and ~175lbs. wondering if I should just stick to buying new or take a risk that a used boat that is well liked by many may work good for me.

EDIT: I was thinking I would prefer the phoenix more for my use profile of an all around boat for both flat and moving water but figured my test paddle would finalize my decision.

 

[NikonF5user]

so, I have an appt scheduled to go test paddle a new nw solo and phoenix tomorrow. A bell wildfire composite (~37lbs?) in nice shape just popped up for sale not too far away for $1k. Everything I read about the wildfire is good. The thought of saving ~$3k over a new boat is nice, it would weigh a few lbs more vs new but not a terrible amount more. I am 6'0" and ~175lbs. wondering if I should just stick to buying new or take a risk that a used boat that is well liked by many may work good for me.

The WildFIRE is my all-time favorite boat, so I am biased, but here are some thoughts about the two in comparison. First off, I am positive that if you do some searching through the threads on this forum, you will find many comparisons between the two. But here are my $0.02 worth:

• The WildFIRE is more playful, quicker to heel. I am sure the WF gets the slight edge in maneuverability, and will get you into slightly tighter spaces if you like paddling tiny creeks. The Phoenix has slightly more primary stability, does not heel as quickly but is more confidence-inspiring.
• The WildFIRE cannot carry the load a Phoenix can. If you are carrying a heavier load, I would go for the Phoenix over the WildFIRE.
• The Phoenix is more dry in heavy water and the more bulbous hull shape near the bow pushes it up and over waves more than does the WF - if you are paddling class 2 plus, the Phoenix is likely going to be a bit more up your alley. Check out the Cliff Jacobson write-up about the Phoenix.
• Nothing is quite like IXP - if you often paddling rocky rivers and the ability to bang around your boat is more important than weight, I would go for an IXP Phoenix over any WF any day of the week.
• Both are being manufactured now - Swift can make a new WF (even though they removed it from their website, if you call Swift they will still make one). If going new, I would choose based on the above criteria - but no manufacturer is quite like Swift - I have a Swift WildFIRE and am downright in love with it.

I do suggest looking around - I suspect the boat you're referencing may not be available any longer, but there is a two-year old Swift WildFIRE in northern Virginia that looks quite nice. There are also several Phoenixes for sale right now - so new or used, you have a few options!

 

[mdkelley]

based on your comments it sounds like a phoenix may better suit me. I was thinking about BL HD instead of IXP. I will keep my appt to test paddle tomorrow, if I think I would like something a tad smaller than the phoenix I will see if that one posted 2 days ago is still available. If not, more options will come up for sale like you mentioned. I appreciate the insight.

 

[M Clemens]

I would have thought, like Nikon F5user, that a $1000 Wildfire would already be gone, but I see it's in Traverse City which would make it a long drive for most (I used to live in Cadillac). You couldn't possibly go wrong with it, as you could always sell it for at least $1000 if it didn't work out. As opposed to buying a new Phoenix and losing money if it didn't work out and you had to sell. I think test paddles are great, but you can't get a real feel for a boat under every scenario, like you can by buying a used boat and spending hours and hours of paddle time.

 

[Alan Gage]

I'm your height and weight and while the wildfire was a fun boat to paddle on occasion, just for something different, it definitely was not my main choice for iowa paddling, which involves mainly small lakes, wind, and rivers with virtually no rapids above a riffle.

The maneuverability of something like the wildfire simply wasn't necessary. A longer, less rockered, and more stable hull that took less correction was, for me, far more preferable for daily paddling.

I always think it would be fun to have a small and maneuverable hull for small sloughs and backwaters, and I do have such a hull, but the reality is that I rarely actually paddle those reed choked waters. And I've also paddled those waters in longer boats that were 'inappropriate' for the task and not only survived but had fun.

I've noticed that most people who love the wildfire do a a fair amount of paddling on swift streams and rivers.

 

[mdkelley]

my use profile will mostly be lazy rivers and lakes. Some rivers have some fast sections but most Michigan streams are pretty lazy in my opinion. No "whitewater" here unless you go in a high flow/elevation drop river at flood levels, which I don't.

 

[NikonF5user]

my use profile will mostly be lazy rivers and lakes. Some rivers have some fast sections but most Michigan streams are pretty lazy in my opinion. No "whitewater" here unless you go in a high flow/elevation drop river at flood levels, which I don't.

One thing about the WildFIRE is that it responds VERY well to corrective strokes. If you are into "hit and switch" paddling, the WildFIRE (or Phoenix for that matter) will likely not be as enjoyable for you. If you enjoy C-strokes and J-strokes and/or maneuvering with "freestyle" techniques, then it's hard to get a better match than the WildFIRE (it was designed by David Yost based on requested specs for that purpose from freestyle canoeist Charlie Wilson)...

 

[mdkelley]

I do prefer to paddle on one side most of the time, if possible. I also plan to use a double ended bending branches canoe paddle for bigger lake crossings or windy days just to make things easier/faster, and a regular single blade paddle for everything else. Not sure if that makes a difference? I bought the big double end paddle several years ago so I could paddle my sportspal, which is a real chore to paddle straight with a single blade.

 

[mdkelley]

I would have thought, like Nikon F5user, that a $1000 Wildfire would already be gone, but I see it's in Traverse City which would make it a long drive for most (I used to live in Cadillac). You couldn't possibly go wrong with it, as you could always sell it for at least $1000 if it didn't work out. As opposed to buying a new Phoenix and losing money if it didn't work out and you had to sell. I think test paddles are great, but you can't get a real feel for a boat under every scenario, like you can by buying a used boat and spending hours and hours of paddle time.

yes the one in TC. It is probably ~4hrs each way for me from where I am currently staying. Looks to be in pretty good condition. I am brand new to solo boats which is why I have so many questions that probably seem silly or simple. I guess if I could resell for similar to what I pay I wouldn't be out anything other than time to drive up and back.

 

[NikonF5user]

I do prefer to paddle on one side most of the time, if possible. I also plan to use a double ended bending branches canoe paddle for bigger lake crossings or windy days just to make things easier/faster, and a regular single blade paddle for everything else. Not sure if that makes a difference? I bought the big double end paddle several years ago so I could paddle my sportspal, which is a real chore to paddle straight with a single blade.

If you watch YouTube videos about the Phoenix, you'll see many paddlers using it with a double-bladed paddle. The WF would be similar. Not something I personally do (mainly because I typically kneel), but I do not see why it wouldn't work. Here is a video of a Phoenix being paddled with a double-blade:

 

[mdkelley]

well, I messaged. The seller is actually in Florida and there is a deal pending at 3pm. It was double posted in FL and TC...

thanks for that video, I thought I had found every phoenix video on the internet but apparently not!

EDIT: I lied, I have seen that video. I left him a comment asking how he would compare the nw solo and phoenix since he has both on his channel...

 

[M Clemens]

yes the one in TC. It is probably ~4hrs each way for me from where I am currently staying. Looks to be in pretty good condition. I am brand new to solo boats which is why I have so many questions that probably seem silly or simple. I guess if I could resell for similar to what I pay I wouldn't be out anything other than time to drive up and back.

For someone who is new to solo paddling, I would always recommend finding a good quality USED boat to start off. By all means test all the new boats you can, but at todays' prices most folks would have already perfected their paddle strokes and developed technique before making the investment. There always seems to be a decent supply of used solos in Michigan and the contiguous states.