Bears and Meals

[Black_Fly]

I’m taking mostly freeze dried meals on my September excursions. They don’t fit real good in my Bear Vaults. Im wondering if there isn’t a better way to haul these meals, and if bears can even smell them inside their pouches. Anyone ever hear of a bear getting into sealed FD meals?

 

[Alan Gage]

How are they packaged now that they don't fit well? Can you just repackage them into zip locks?

Alan

 

[Boatman53]

My dog gets interested in the pouches when I bring them out to pack.
Jim

 

[yknpdlr]

When I flew an AF cargo plane into the Philippines with military passengers, we were required to stop on the tarmac and keep the doors closed (in 100F temp) until local inspectors could visit us with scent dogs. The pilot frantically tried to capture a moth fluttering inside the window before they arrived. Once onboard, a dog, a German shepherd, alerted on one airman's luggage bag. The local country military cops tore it apart and finally determined that ther airman had a sealed can of tuna fish that the dog was most interested in. That was it, nothing else. Bears are known to have an even more sensitive sense of smell than dogs. Being in SAR, I am always impressed when a canine is able locate a down and buried subject, even after a year in some cases.

I have no doubt that most any kind of closely sealed packaging is not barrier to the nose of a bear. Some bears, a famous example named
"yellow-yellow" for her ear tags, have learned to open the cover of the Bear Vault, and even taught its cubs how to do the same. Several campers over a couple of years lost the well sealed contents and the canister. The DEC then made that canister illegal to use in that region of the Adirondacks.

I saw a returned rental Garcia canister (the black canister) where the renter camper observed a red squirrel work on chewing it over a period of three days. The critter eventually was able to chew through a bottom corner and got into the interior. If I was the rental shop I would have charged him the full replacement cost.

 

[Black_Fly]

Meh, these bear cans add about 6 lbs to my load alone. A square one would fit these meal pouches better.

 

[Gamma1214]

I think the safe bet is to assume that the bear can smell it and will eat whatever is available. I guess barrels or vaults are required now in the BWCA but I'd still hang. (Better safe than hungry)

 

[Black_Fly]

I used to hang in the BWCA, but the trees are so damaged around the best campsites I started stashing a can.

 

[PaddlingPika]

Do Ursacks meet bear resistant requirements for the areas you plan to travel?

 

[yknpdlr]

Do Ursacks meet bear resistant requirements for the areas you plan to travel?

In NY, no, the ursack since it is not solid and non-pliable material does not meet the requirements where a bear resistant canister is mandatory:

Only canisters successfully tested by the IGBC pass the certification test. IGBC Certification: Products that successfully withstand the bear testing for a specified duration are certified as bear-resistant by the Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee (IGBC).

Bear-Resistant Canisters

Using a bear-resistant canister is the most effective way to prevent bears from becoming emboldened to obtain food from back-country campers.

dec.ny.gov

Selecting a Bear-Resistant Canister

Bear-resistant canister means a commercially made container constructed of solid, non-pliable material manufactured for the specific purpose of resisting entry by bears.

Tested and approved bear-resistant canisters can be purchased or rented from many local, national, and web-based outdoor recreation retailers. However, black bears in the Eastern High Peaks Wilderness have regularly defeated bear-resistant canisters made of clear plastic. Campers are encouraged (although not required) to use another type of bear-resistant canister to prevent the loss of food. When selecting a bear-resistant canister consider the following:

Has the canister passed rigorous testing with live bears?

Is the canister made of solid, non-pliable hard plastic or metal with smooth, rounded edges and no handles?

There shouldn’t be any features that a bears' claws or teeth could grip under or that would allow a bear to carry the canister away.

Is the canister large enough to store all scented items for the entire duration of your trip?


Canisters typically are 8 inches by 12 inches in size and hold up to 5 days of food for 1 person, when properly packed.

Does the canister have a lid that is easy to remove and secure? This will help ensure scented items can be easily secured after each use.

A Bear Can: Use it or Lose it | Adirondack Mountain Club

New York State law states that, during the period April 1 through November 30, no overnight camper in the Eastern/Central High Peaks Zone shall fail to use bear-resistant canisters for the storage of all food.

adk.org

 

[ppine]

Bears can smell everything. That includes canned goods, toothpaste, pouch food, your dog and you.

 

[memaquay]

Not to be nosey, but do your September trips still involve coming up to Ontario? My memory is not the best now, but I seem to recall you had been speculating about a trip in Wabakimi maybe? If that is the case, don't worry about the bear vault, just put your food bag outside your tent, if you have bearanoia, put it at a distance and put some pots on it so you know if something is disturbing it. If it does turn out to be a bear, very unlikely, just do the Canadian thing and fight it, we usually win.

 

[Gamma1214]

...we usually win

and if not... I guess it makes the TR more interesting.

 

[ppine]

Last night I was at a concert in the general store of a little mountain town near where I live. Forrest Van Tuyl was playing.
During the intermission out in front of the store, the local black bear showed up in broad daylight. He waited awhile, saw an opening and scooted down the street. He was a large boar with dark chocolate fur.

 

[TrailBlaser]

I've been using an Ursack (with the aluminum bear sack liner and an Opsak Odor-Proof Barrier Bag) in the Adirondack backcountry (though not in the High Peaks) for years now and haven't had any problems. Granted, I have not had bears in my camp or seen any evidence of any animals taking a go at it (I tie a bell to it), but I believe that these two additions to a properly tied and hung sack should make it more difficult to get into. I also do a bear hang with a BearVault BV500 Journey Bear Canister, which is in Garcia Machine Nylon Carrying Case. I can pack up to 8 days of home dehydrated meals in there and when combined with the 3-4 packed in Ursack (along with my toiletries), I can cover my longest trips. For carries, both of these will fit inside my Granite Gear Mesh bag, which clips to the back of Granite Gear Portage Pack or RBW Tripper Pack.

 

[Black_Fly]

Not to be nosey, but do your September trips still involve coming up to Ontario? My memory is not the best now, but I seem to recall you had been speculating about a trip in Wabakimi maybe? If that is the case, don't worry about the bear vault, just put your food bag outside your tent, if you have bearanoia, put it at a distance and put some pots on it so you know if something is disturbing it. If it does turn out to be a bear, very unlikely, just do the Canadian thing and fight it, we usually win.

No longer planning on a Wabakimi trip this year. Hope to be able next year. Got all the maps for a route. Going to BWCA if the stars align just right.

 

[jdeerfoot]

I have been on 30+ weeks of NW Ontario (incl the greater Wabakimi area) and a few weeks on Manitoba trips and never had any bear problems with the food stored in barrels in the campsite under the tarp. We always keep a very clean camp and fish are cleaned well away from the campsite. In fact, almost all the wildlife I have seen on these trips is on the roads to/from the trips on highways 527 and 599, especially at night.

 

[ErktheRed]

I can fit all three meals, coffee and snacks for two people for a week long trip in my BV500. Depending on where I’m at and possibly what trees are around me, I’ll hang or stash somewhere. I always forget to use my pans as an alarm system, one day I’ll remember that. I have a unique bear hanging system that I’m re working, and my BV has a few wide strips of reflective tape. My food is a combination of homemade recipes and store bought freeze dried. I do not keep any hygiene or smelly items in there other than food, for those, I use OpSak odor proof bags also and just keep them in a burly dry bag (not critter proof). That same dry bag usually rests on my portage pack/my shoulders when I’m portaging.

I’ve been considering a Ursack for some time

I’ve seen bear, fresh tracks and scat on several trips and haven’t had any issues yet. I’d say I also paddle in both rarely visited and very populated.

 

[ppine]

I have been hanging my food in forests for 65 years. In the desert with no trees there are few bears.
I have had bears in camp many times on canoe trips and every time my dogs have chased them away before they could do any damage.

 

[yknpdlr]

While true bear protection is necessary both for the health and safety of the camper, but perhaps moreso for the protection and life of bears. As the slogan goes: "a fed bear is a dead bear", eventually too often the case. In most cases, the protection you need is from the destructive power of "mini bears", squirrels and mice when camping in any frequently used site. The ursack may be sufficient against them, but it is not a legal bear resistant device in places like the Adirondack Eastern high Peaks Wilderness where use of a commercially made for the purpose firm hard sided container only is what is required by law.

 

[scoutergriz]

I've used a blue barrel since the 80's and not once had a problem with just putting them in a hollow off the beaten path, and most of my tripping has been in Ontario's central and near north areas with some trips in the far north, Alberta and BC. What I do is before the trip I wash out the barrel with soap and bleach and inspect the sealing ring for damage or wear, and leave it overnight on painter's masking paper to look for leaks, in camp it gets walked about 45m (50yds) out AWAY from any trails or sites, flag the location with flagging tape, and tie it to a tree. placing it in a hollow also blocks any wind from carrying any scent it may have acquired to an inquisitive bears nose.
Only once has it been disturbed in over 150 trips and in that case it was 3m(10') from the tree, still attached to the rope which was chewed through. In that time I've seen over a dozen bears in the vicinity, and plenty of sign of them in the sites themselves.
Bears are creatures of habit and in heavily used areas, will establish a route from site to site- we've taught them this behavior by using the same sites and trees to place our food. By preventing any scents and putting it where the bear has no reason to expect food we actually lessen the chances of rewarding them.
Next time you see a "bear tree" with ample claw marks, look up and see how many rope burns are on it...