Pros and Cons of Guided Canoe Trips

I have some paddling acquaintance, all excellent paddlers, who are inviting participants for a guided, three-week, 600 km (375 mile) trip in the Northwest Territories. The fee for a minimum of 8 and a maximum of 10 participants, with two guides, is approximately $16,000 CAN ($12,000 US) per person. And each participant is expected to do some camp chores, plus provide a gratuity of between $300 and $500 CAN.

Kathleen and I have never considered going on a guided trip, and this is no exception. We feel that we would lose all control of where and when to stop. We would lose all control of our meal choices. We might be subjected to campfire games and singing, while we prefer quiet and silence. We might have to accommodate strangers whose company we might not like.

Have you been on guided, lengthy canoe trips? What did you like about it? What didn’t you like about it? Would you do it again?

Not to throw any rocks at anyone who would enjoy such things but I simply can't imagine. One time I thought of inviting a friend of mine along on a canoe trip. Then I imagined him wanting to make camp early and sit in front of a fire for hours each evening while smoking fine cigars and drinking fine scotch. And chatting. Blech!

Then I paused to question which of us was actually the weirdo and decided it didn't matter since we'd both probably end up miserable.

I have friends who would jump at the chance for such trips and could imagine nothing better than meeting new people and tripping without having to plan or make decisions. More power to them.

Alan

That sounds incredibly expensive, in addition to the potential negatives you mention. Tthe cigars would be troblesome to me, as would cigarettes, but if the MJ ever came out I would demand en end to the trip and a refund right then and there.
I traveled and paddled the Yukon River races five times, and the entire expedition, with my own route plannig, including rravel, hotels, and meals with my pit crew traveling also from the east coast US, total cost to me around $6,000 (US) for each trip. I would advise that you contact two excellent outfiters in Whitehorse, YT, Kanoe People, or UpNorth. They would be able to give you advice and a true fair price for what you want to do, with professional guide, or self-planned and self-guided.

We met an older couple about 15 years ago who went on a guided trip in the NWT, with a somewhat famous guide. The couple was disappointed, as a young woman on the trip apparently monopolized the guide’s attention.

To be clear, yknpdlr, we are not considering a guided trip. Kathleen and I have gone on quite a few extended trips in the far north, almost
always by ourselves, based on our own planning. I posted this topic primarily because of Glenn‘s encouragement in the black bar at the top of the page. I hoped it might also be interesting.

Although I prefer self-guided small groups (max of 4, for safety) and solo trips, I've done one raft trip among professional peers, most of whom I didn't know, for 11 days (Alsek-Tatshenshini rivers). There were no conflicts--there were style differences, etc., but it was an easy group, and I found some like-minded people. As all costs were covered, and I was getting paid to do it, it'd take a lot of conflicts to be bothersome. Of course every group will be a crapshoot. Maybe talk to the company and see what their clientele is like? How is the command system--how much group input is allowed?

And you really have to do some soul-searching: how particular are you with different personalities? Skill levels? Style? And then there's your own mindset. I did a 6 week remote trip some years ago with two people I had never met (and one old friend, whom I never paddled with before). At the put-in, I told myself that we're going to spend 6 weeks together--make it work (and it did, and I'm still paddling with some of them). But it's a commitment some people may not have.

I have considered it on rivers that are above my solo comfort level that I would like to visit in the NW Territories, but I would have to understand that it isn’t my trip and I’m just along for the ride in a sense.
I have watched interactions of local fishing and hunting guides and their “sports”.
That has probably skewed my opinion in a negative way. I doubt I’ll ever hire a guide.

Bob

Guided canoe trips especially those run by the well known companies are completely unlike your average hunting/fishing guided trip.

Most people with modest experience doing a trip way over comfort level with complex logistics and equipment requirements seem to REALLY enjoy these high end organized trips. For most of them it's likely something they would never be able or wanting to do with a small private group.

One other thing, these expensive canoe trips are dirt cheap compared to a similar type of guided hunting/fishing trip. That type of trip is luxury style and you can easily drop 10 grand for a week or less.

Personally I have considered the guided trip option since I have failed to do my own "north of 60" trip that I have been thinking about for 30 years. I figure it might be the only way I could get to the far north but after not much thinking I always decide it's just not my thing.

I have a friend who is curious about my tripping, he has lilly dipped in a canoe but never "tripped", he asks me silly questions like "what do you do for drinking water?" and "how do you carry enough toilet paper?" He would be perfect for a fully guided trip (but I ain't going to be his guide!)

recped said:

Personally I have considered the guided trip option since I have failed to do my own "north of 60" trip that I have been thinking about for 30 years. I figure it might be the only way I could get to the far north but after not much thinking I always decide it's just not my thing.

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Ben, you might consider the Noatak in AK. It's totally soloable and the logistics are straightforward. It's pretty tame compared to what you've done, but it's a neat trip and "north of 60" (starts about 67 degrees). There are other rivers in AK that are pretty mild. If'n you want to stay in CA, I can't help you. Being committed to soloing and wanting a group has its disadvantages, as we've discussed.

Mason said:

Ben, you might consider the Noatak in AK. It's totally soloable and the logistics are straightforward. It's pretty tame compared to what you've done, but it's a neat trip and "north of 60" (starts about 67 degrees). There are other rivers in AK that are pretty mild. If'n you want to stay in CA, I can't help you. Being committed to soloing and wanting a group has its disadvantages, as we've discussed.

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A friend did a guided trip on the Noatak and he is an experienced tripper. In telling me about the trip he explained that he felt he could do this trip as a self organized trip for about half what he paid.

There are those who can do, those who can't do, and those that can't do but want to anyway.
The last group need guides, the first two don't.

jdeerfoot said:

A friend did a guided trip on the Noatak and he is an experienced tripper. In telling me about the trip he explained that he felt he could do this trip as a self organized trip for about half what he paid.

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No need for a guide if you know how to camp and paddle mostly slow moving water. You do need to be bear savvy though.

I've never gone on a guided trip. The only one I ever seriously considered was one of Bob Foote's whitewater trips down the Grand Canyon, where you would have the support of other highly competent boaters and a raft for gear and food. But I never had the time to do it.

I would consider it now for a northern Canada wilderness trip, which is too much to risk solo at my age, if I had that much purely disposable income. But I don't, so I never will.

I used to go on a lot of base camping whitewater group trips in the 1980's, 1990's and early 2000's with the Sierra Club, Appalachian Mountain Club, and the Adirondack Mountain Club, as well as a sea kayaking club. I never liked the club trips that were highly "organized", with assigned roles for kitchen, camp and cleanup duties. I always preferred to be self-sufficient as to gear and meals.

Also, as a non-smoker since 1981 and a non-drinker since 1989, I don't like being around chimneys, drunks or dopers, which seem to populate a lot of outdoor group trips of all types. I can tolerate some of such people, as they used to tolerate me in earlier times, but I now need space to slink away from them to my own tent and chair to sip decaffeinated green tea and read a book in peace.

16 000 bucks? For realz? I don't even own anything worth 16 000 bucks. Hard no for me.

Been on one guided trip on the Snake River in the Yukon
550 km over 12 days
Rapids to class3
Fly in
Would have been worth it if the guides were both decent
One was more inept than the clients
The other quite good
I chose to run a tricky canyon in glacial melt waters with the a$$hole
I would have been better off with hubby
He alone was able to throw a bag to me and get me before I washed downriver
At that time in 1996 the Snake was an experimental trip
We wanted a guide as essentially the river was a class up due to cold water
Our next Yukon trip was the two of us unsupported but it was the Yukon River which is well documented as to rapids

I've done a number of guided trips... all on water. I'm perfectly capable of setting up camp, and I can paddle my canoe but when I'm in an unfamiliar place, I don't want to trust my own whits to saving myself on water. I've taken guided trips and rafted and canoed and kayaked in a number of places, and they were really nice trips. I never did it for the opportunity to meet new people. I did it for the chance to get to someplace I'd not be able to get to if left to my own devices. I was always afraid that I'd get with a group that was more concerned about swimming and water fights, than seeing yellow warblers, or listening to boulders rumble in the river. There was one trip that had a couple of little girls who were spending more time spraying people with super-soakers than was appreciated. On about the third day, a guide pushed them into the river. There were many tears, and some parents were quietly offended, but things were definitely more subdued after that. I'm a little ashamed to admit that was really the high point of that trip. It makes me smile even now. I never, ever paid anywhere near that much for a guided trip. I did a rafting trip on the Kongakut, on the North Slope, which was my most expensive trip. It was under $4,000 for about two weeks. If I had needed to set everything up, I'd still wonder what it looked like up there. I never got to pick the campsite, though I liked where we stayed. I did get input into where hikes would go, though it was never my choice, solely. The food--not cooked by me--was wonderful. I guarantee that if I had cooked things myself, it wouldn't have been wonderful. I regret that I don't know how to cook anything that good, even at home. I don't know that I ever stayed awake long enough to enjoy dessert around the fire, but it was always quiet enough that I could sleep while others sat around the fire. They were enjoyable trips that got me to places I wouldn't have made it to, otherwise. I have no regrets about those trips.

Safety on water is my concern. I have self-organized a couple of little canoe trips into the Boundary Waters, and the Tetons, and hike alone most anyplace that I don't worry about snakes. I just got a little packraft to play with in Yellowstone this year, and dream daily about bobbing on some backcountry lakes. Last year, I hiked into Heart Lake, and there was a canoe and a couple of packrafts, and I was *so* jealous. This year, it's gonna be me out there! Well, fairly close to shore. It probably seems inconsistent that I am not worried about water safety in Yellowstone, but was in other places, but here I know prevailing winds, and have a good sense of where I can put in that if something happens, I should be able to land and wander back to camp, if need be.

I know I could take water safety and rescue courses, but the reality is that I still wouldn't do those trips. I will give up some of the autonomy for the ability to get to places that I want to get to, and see and sense things that I otherwise wouldn't be able to experience. And like a stray, if you feed me, I'll come back. I certainly understand all of your comments, but you asked for thoughts. I'd never go on a guided hiking trip.

Being a severely shy introvert, this trip would never happen for me.
Me and my young wife went on a ski trip to the Laurentians for a week many moons ago. Being a group trip reduced the costs incredibly. A package deal of group guide, airfare, ski lodge, meals and drinks, and ski lessons chaque matin made this a deal we couldn't pass up. I loved it, all of it, until the (encouraged but not required) nightly charades, singsongs, skits, and "let's discuss each others' lives" session. Feck no. I stayed at the dinner table as long as was socially acceptable, and then we 2 sought refuge either outdoors skating and snowshoeing, or indoors in front of the fire, sipping wine and quietly chatting with other escapees. Turned out to be a wonderful trip. But I'd never do it again.
The Marshall group trip several years ago doesn't fit into this thread, as I already considered the group as friends, tho' some of us had never met. Despite having outfitted ourselves, I still feel greatly indebted to our guide and Mrs Mem for their infinite hospitality. And yeah, I would've done the charades and skits if called upon. Situational context is everything.

Here in Maine the St Johns River is a popular spring run with mostly easy moving water without portages. There are two big rapids that will get your attention and because of them, I won’t give it a try.
I have checked out the prices for guided trips on the St John’s and really can’t justify spending the money to use someone else’s boat and gear when I have my own. Spending a week in a canoe with a stranger, group meals, etc. etc. Not for me.
imo, canoe guides earn their pay but I’m glad to be able to go it alone for the most part.

Who spends $12,000 for a canoe trip? I have been leading canoe trips since 1968. The closest we have come to a guided trip was a trip to Ely, MN where we flew in by plane and hired an outfitter. We rented everything but clothing back in 1985, which meant aluminum Grumman canoes and traditional camping equipment. We cooked on a fire and had Eureka tents. The dehydrated food was high in sugar and low on fruits and vegetables. The route chosen by our guide was terrible. I explained that we wanted a leisurely trip. Thank God we were all young and in shape because sometimes we were on the water for more than 10 hours a day. We had some big winds on Basswood Lake. The other 7 people that came along complained little. We had plenty of fun. People still talk about it all these years later. But the trip would have been much better if the professional guide had made the trip much shorter with fewer long portages.

I can see how people might want a guide for the NWT. But to me it is a very risky proposition. That is the main reason I will never make it to the Barren Lands. We like to run our own trips in more familiar country.

I don't suppose two old guys allowing 4 young Scouts to lead a week in BWCAW qualifies as a guided trip, does it? Was only around $400 each.

$12,000 does seem like an astronomical amount for a canoe trip. I guess you would have to compare it to how much it will cost to do it on your own to find out how much the "guiding" is costing you.