Considering my 1st build.

[Gamma1214]

After reading many (many!) of the posts & chatting a bit on here, I am planning on trying my hand at building a strip boat. Leaning (at this point) toward the 38 Special but I am led to believe that it could stand a bit more rocker. Biggest question, at this point, is: build the 1st without deviating from the plans or modify the forms (conservatively) right off the bat?

Perhaps there is another design I should tackle? I am 6 ft 195#, travel fairly light and am hoping to get out a week or so at a time. I would like to keep the finished weight around 30 lbs which I think is possible and still have enough strength to rub a few rocks here and there. Probable woods are sassafras or possibly butternut. I'm sure my wood supplier has sassafras (checked that last week) but I'm not certain of the butternut (checking tomorrow).

Opinions/suggestions are welcome and thanks in advance.

 

[alsg]

I've built just one. You can certainly modify the forms but unless you both know exactly what it is you want to change in the design and exactly how it is going to affect the rest of the performance, I'd recommend sticking with a tested design. There are so many designs available that there almost certainly has to be an existing design out there that will meet your needs and which will have known characteristics. If you play with the forms you risk having your very first build turn into an ugly duckling that paddles like a pig (yes I mixed my metaphors).

Why sassafras/butternut? Both sassafras/butternut are much heavier per cubic foot compared to western red cedar, which is the usual choice.

 

[Cruiser]

For a first build, it would likely be best to stick to the plans .... you will have a lot of questions and a lot of decisions during the build, much easier on you if you don't have the added worry of design changes.

I picked the Freedom Solo (BearMountain) and built it in the 16'3" version, which I trip with and find works really well for me .... there are quite a few nice designs that will serve you well, there will not be a single hands down "best" choice for you, through this forum and maybe a few others you may be able to find some one with the canoe you want to build, that will let you take a test drive .... but it is pretty well assured that you will likely like whatever you build.

Not to burst your bubble on weight, but your goal of under 30 pounds isn't realistic IMO .... even paying attention to details, breaking 40 #s is a challenge (assuming a 16'+ boat). I just completed a build at 39.4#s and that was using northern white cedar, which is significantly lighter than WRC .... your butternut and sassafras are significantly heavier. Using those woods alone will give you a bare hull in the 24-25 pound range ... add the epoxy/FG, gunnels, seat, decks, varnish ... you get the idea, it all adds up. I would expect a finished weight, using sassafras, to come in around the 50 pound range.

If you want to build a lighter boat without comprising strength, it needs to planned that way from the beginning and good weight choices need to be the focus of each step and decision you make during the build process.


Brian

 

[Jim Dodd]

Great advise so far !!!

Are you using the original 38 Spl. designed by Bruce Kunz ? For lake travel, I wouldn't change a thing !!! I've built this, and a few modified versions. This I believe to be the fastest design.

Bruce's was designed at 16' 1", with a 12.5" form spacing. A friend of mine by mistake built it with 12" spacing. We dubbed it the "Pomeroy Special." It is a great small creek hull, it did lose a little speed, but I use this hull quite often, as I built one too!

The other 38s out there, I believe have been rockered slightly. For winding narrow rivers, a good choice !

Weight ! Cruiser is correct ! A 30# 38 spl. is unrealistic in a stripper ! I think you would have to really know what you are doing to make out of composites !

Again I really think highly of Bruce's 38 Spl. !

Jim

 

[Cruiser]

As an aside Jim, you have any idea where I would start looking to get a copy of the lofting tables or plans for that original 38 special? I have heard so much about it and I want to start looking for a new project.


Brian

 

[Gamma1214]

Jim: I believe the plans I was looking at are the original design. I found them here: http://wcha.org/catalogs/plans.html So... no rocker changes? If I'm travelling light should I skip the 3.8% and just build a Merlin?

alsg: I may be able to find Cedar here but I was thinking of using locally sourced materials for cost savings and aesthetics. Researching densities, WR Cedar is 23 lbs/cu ft, Butternut is 24 and Sassafras 31(ish). It seems as though I'll have roughly 1 cubic foot of wood so I'm adding 7 lbs w/ Sassafras and only 1 if I can get the Butternut. I can also get kiln-dried poplar cheap but the others are stronger, prettier (IMO) & more rot-resistant (not that that should matter if I build it well). And, yes Brian, you are correct. I'll find it pretty hard to keep it under 30# with 31#s of wood in the hull. Maybe low 40s?

I'll admit that I may be getting in over my head but that wouldn't exactly be the first time and it's (usually) turned out ok...

 

[Iskweo]

A couple of us have built Jack's Specials from the Carrying Place and they are really nice little boats if you are looking for a 15 footer. I have paddled Mem's and Karin's and they are fast handy boats when done up as a solo. If you did a bare bones build out of cedar you should be able to manage @ 40 lbs. It is basically a cedar strip version of a Chestnut Chum. You cant go too far wrong with that.

Christy

 

[alsg]

1. I'm getting 27lb/ft3 for Butternut. https://www.wood-database.com/butternut/

2. I suspect there's a lot more than 1 cubic foot of wood in that hull.
In any event, if weight is an issue, you will want to go with something light.

3. Get a good book. Canoecraft is one. https://www.amazon.com/Canoecraft-I...TF8&qid=1546299538&sr=1-1&keywords=canoecraft Building a Strip Canoe is another. https://www.amazon.com/Building-Strip-Canoe-Gil-Gilpatrick/dp/0899333494

 

[Jim Dodd]

As an aside Jim, you have any idea where I would start looking to get a copy of the lofting tables or plans for that original 38 special? I have heard so much about it and I want to start looking for a new project.


Brian

I have the original Bruce Kunz, 38 Spl. plans, I don't own the rights to them, or I would make them available !!!

An inquiry to North West Canoe would be my recommendation, in finding them. I know Dennis Davidson has sold the business, He may be able to help ! There should be several plans in Minnesota !

Gamma. As to building the Merlin, yes it's an excellent choice ! It would be lighter, but less suitable for tripping, less capacity. Bruce built his to around 35 #. No flotation chambers, one layer of cloth on the outside, and reduced gunnels.

Yes, if you had the original BK Merlin plans, you could enlarge, and stretch the form spacing, (12.5") and you would have the 38spl.
The Merlin was designed at around 15' 4" or close. The NWC Merlin is 16', not the Original Merlin.

Bruce was about 5' 8" 145 #, He designed and built the Merlin to fit him ! Spent 2 weeks in the BWCA in it.

The beauty of Bruce Kunz designs, is Bruce built his canoes STEMLESS ! A BIG improvement, in my book over outdated stems that ( Canoecraft) promotes !

You can save some weight by reducing strip thickness, to 3/16".

Again ! I would build a 38 Spl. I'm excited to folow along if you decide to !!!

Jim

 

[Jim Dodd]

I've been doing a little internet search.

The Minnesota Canoe Association, has Bruce Kunz's Kootenay plans. Bruce's Kootenay and the Merlin are the same hull, below the waterline. The stems are the biggest difference.

If I was set on a 38, I'd modify the Kootenay, as Bruce did with the Merlin, to get the 38.

http://www.mncanoe.org/

Jim

 

[stripperguy]

Lightweight strippers are possible, but with much care.
Below is my DY Special, a 16'8" solo speed demon. It weighed 32 lbs. Western Red Cedar, 1-1/2 layers in and out of 3.75 oz glass, all mahogany trim.

​


And here is my 17 ft tandem, it weighed 37 lbs when 1st built. Western Red Cedar, 1-1/2 layers of glass in and out, Southern Yellow Pine gunnels, Cedar center thwart, mahogany seat frames.

​


Lastly, here is my 18 ft tandem it weighed 40 lbs when built. Western Red Cedar, single layer 6 oz in and out, all mahogany trim.

​

Pay particular attention to the weight of the wood for the hull. Also, apply the resin carefully, and wet out only on the inside. Use smaller section gunnels, avoid dense hardwoods for trim. Definitely build stemless. Obviously, lower volume hulls, lower sheer lines, and shorter hulls will be lighter, but may not suit your needs.

 

[Gamma1214]

Well, I've hit a rather serious snag already. Turns out my supplier has sassafras, butternut and poplar readily available (he can order cedar) and quartersawn is possible in all of them if it's desirable (not sure on that but you guys can, no doubt, advise me). I also have a heated garage that is available for me to use (which keeps me from trashing the carpet in my dining room. Yes, I would do that and not think twice about it). What I cannot find are the plans for the 38 Special.

I've contacted Northwest Canoe and they have Merlin plans but I am hesitant to just "wing it" and try to enlarge everything by 3.8% (enough to worry about on a first build without trusting my math skills). I've also touched base with the WHCA and the Minnesota Canoe Association to see if I can track down a set of the plans as Bruce Kunz originally drew them. Is there anyone else I should contact? Am I searching for a unicorn here and should just build something similar?

I've already designed the color scheme, football pattern, gunnel trim & the seat in my mind... I want to start stripping! As always, thanks for any suggestions. For now, I'll build the strongback...

-Steve

 

[Jim Dodd]

Steve

Enlarging the plans is so simple ! There are a lot of print shops, ( especially in a College town) That can enlarge a set of plans in minutes ! ( No Math Skills needed) I've done this several times !

I'd order the Kootenay from MCA, and enlarge ! It will then actually become Your design !

As for wood, Flat grain planks ( 3/4"thick) are what I use ! Flat grain Planks, turn into Quarter sawn strips ! That's what you want ! No table saw needed !

Use that strongback to hold your plank, while you cut the strips with a Skilsaw !

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums...76446-setting-up-a-skilsaw-for-cutting-strips

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums...truction/75680-cutting-strips-with-a-skillsaw

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums...truction/75680-cutting-strips-with-a-skillsaw

Jim

 

[Gamma1214]

Jim, I thought the plans would be just measurements for various places at each station and I would then plot shapes (lofting?) onto posterboard. Do they, instead, send paper templates (maybe overlaid on the same sheet)? That would make enlargement pretty simple although depth would also increase by the enlargement percentage (probably not an issue)

Thanks also for the links. I will certainly check them out.

As for the Kootenay... I realize the bow & stern rolled toward the center would likely reduce the effects of cross winds but I'm not a fan of the aesthetics. Northwest Canoe says their plans for the Merlin are the original (some posts online claim they added rocker). Maybe I'll check to see how much rocker they have (should be none, right?) and enlarge those.

...Maybe even make forms for the Merlin and build those for my daughters...

 

[stripperguy]

Mr gamma
see it’s happening already! While planning your 1st build you’re dreaming of the next ones
and so it happens to us all...

 

[Jim Dodd]

I have Feelers out, trying to find a set of plans for the 38 for you.

North West's Merlin is NOT the original Bruce Kunz Merlin ! It may be what you want though.

The plans are drawings , or tracings of one half the shape of the forms. I use Carbon paper to transfer the pattern to poster board. There by saving the pattern.

Do you have any building books ? I'd get several, as they all have different. Gil Patrick. Ted Moore, Nick Schade. Maybe the best for this build might be the MCA's own builder book.

I have to go, but will have more later !

Jim

 

[Cruiser]

Jim ... if you find those plans, I am also interested if possible .... template or tables ... either works

Gamma ... this is a link to how to loft from tables if you are interested: http://buildersforum.bearmountainboats.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4658&p=29039&hilit=lofting#p29039


Brian

 

[Gamma1214]

see it’s happening already! While planning your 1st build you’re dreaming of the next ones
and so it happens to us all...

Mike, I knew going in that this would not be a one-shot deal. I'm (fairly) confident that my 1st build will be "ok" but I'm sure there will be things that I wish I had done differently or that I think I could have done better. I would expect my 2nd & 3rd boats to be better and that I'll be getting pretty good by the time I've done 5 or 6. We'll see how it goes but I'm only expecting "acceptable" on my first.

I shod my first horse over 20 years ago and it went "ok". If I did that kind of job today, I wouldn't even charge the customer but the only way we improve is through practice. "Just do it" has served me well so far in my life.

Ordered Merlin plans today. They DO have a bit of rocker... 1 inch in the bow and 1/2 inch in the rear.

 

[Gamma1214]

Jim, Thank you. I think I would prefer to build the original if possible. Always seems like a nod to the designer to stay true to the original. I try very hard to be a craftsman and, probably because of this, have always had a deep respect for other craftsmen.

No builder's books yet, just internet searching but I'll get a couple.

Brian, I may attempt lofting plans on future builds. For now, I think I'll try to keep it as simple as possible. WAY to much to learn but I'll get there...

 

[stripperguy]

Mike, I knew going in that this would not be a one-shot deal. I'm (fairly) confident that my 1st build will be "ok" but I'm sure there will be things that I wish I had done differently or that I think I could have done better. I would expect my 2nd & 3rd boats to be better and that I'll be getting pretty good by the time I've done 5 or 6. We'll see how it goes but I'm only expecting "acceptable" on my first.

I shod my first horse over 20 years ago and it went "ok". If I did that kind of job today, I wouldn't even charge the customer but the only way we improve is through practice. "Just do it" has served me well so far in my life.

Ordered Merlin plans today. They DO have a bit of rocker... 1 inch in the bow and 1/2 inch in the rear.

Steve,

A lifetime ago, there was a poster on the wall of one of the shops where I served my apprenticeship.
It read:

A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; but a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist.


That particular sentiment has stuck with me all of my adult life...sadly, we artists have a hard time to see the beauty in our work, instead, focusing on the "flaws".

Enjoy the build, we'll be watching and ready to help.