Single sided correction strokes - Does your paddle touch the hull?

[RickR]

I've gotten to know and become friends with some very experienced canoeists who have spent a lot of time in northern Canada with native people. They've told me that up there prying off of the gunnel is the norm. In terms of efficiency and conservation of energy it makes sense to me that this would be true. If you're living a subsistence life in the bush using skills passed down generation to generation, efficiency and conservation of energy would be paramount.

 

[memaquay]

If you guys haven't watched this yet, I urge you to do so. It is probably my favourite documentary, shot with a Cree group of families in the early 70's.

Cree Hunters of Mistassini

An NFB crew filmed a group of three families, Cree hunters from Mistassini. Since times predating agriculture, this First Nations people have gone to the bush of the …

www.nfb.ca

If you just want to see the relevant canoe parts, they are at 11:53 and 16:45. These are people who grew up in canoes, their strokes are unique and efficient.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

is it true that the bow pry is American and the crossbow is Canadian

I believe the cross bow is the most powerful stroke in canoeing, because you use your whole back and torso.

Paddling is paddling no matter where you do it.

40+ years ago I read some books that advised doing a pry in whitewater rather than a cross draw because lifting your paddle out of the water to do a cross draw is "risky." I don't agree with that, and have always used a cross draw in whitewater rather than a bow pry. I agree with Chip on the power of a cross draw, and can snap a more powerful eddy turn on my off-side with a cross-Duffek-draw than I can on my on-side with a Duffek.

However, in a moderately rockered or unrockered lake canoe I can make sharper off-side turns with a bow pry (aka a bow "jam" or freestyle "wedge") than I can with a cross-draw. The static bow pry/wedge doesn't touch the gunwale, but is laid against the hull in the bow quarter. The turning power, especially if you heel to the outside of the turn, is quite abrupt and can eject the unwary. The wedge is especially useful on very twisty streams as the following brief videos illustrate:

 

[yknpdlr]

In my earliest racing days as bow paddler in a heavy woodstrip voyageur canoe, I self-discovered the bow jam, I carried a spare very sturdy wood paddle and in the extremely twisty narrow Brown's Tract, I would lean my body far out to the offside of the turn and jam the paddle as I stuck the paddle with water pressure against the nearly straight bow stem at an angle that whipped us quickly around the tightest turns with ease at speed. (Yes, in that case at the time my paddle did contact the canoe hull in that maneuver only.)

Since then, I save the portage weight and do not carry the heavy paddle any more. I don't dare put that much force on a lightweight carbon paddle, and make those turns by doing strong onside draws while pulling hard with a forward placed vertical shaft bow rudder instead.

 

[eckilson]

When I was introduced to whitewater paddling, I was taught by Canadian trained ORCA instructors. The main bow strokes were always draws and crossbows. They mentioned the bow pry, which they said was an American thing, and that it was the preferred stroke south of the border, apparently because one did not need to change sides for correction, and that the crossbow was looked down on. When I have paddled bow in whitewater, I find I am continuously switching between draws and crossbows. So, my American friends, is it true that the bow pry is American and the crossbow is Canadian, and if so, has anyone noticed any damage to their paddles or gunwales?

The only paddlers I have ever seen do a bow pry are Bill and Paul Mason in their tandem videos. They would use prys to move the canoe sideways to line up on a shoot, and there were a couple of shots when Paul uses a wedge to turn into an eddy. Definitely not an American thing, except maybe for freestyle paddlers.

Actually, you also see Bill Mason doing pries in his solo videos - probably easier for him then doing cross strokes in that big wide tandem.

Paddling is paddling no matter where you do it.

40+ years ago I read some books that advised doing a pry in whitewater rather than a cross draw because lifting your paddle out of the water to do a cross draw is "risky." I don't agree with that, and have always used a cross draw in whitewater rather than a bow pry. I agree with Chip on the power of a cross draw, and can snap a more powerful eddy turn on my off-side with a cross-Duffek-draw than I can on my on-side with a Duffek.

However, in a moderately rockered or unrockered lake canoe I can make sharper off-side turns with a bow pry (aka a bow "jam" or freestyle "wedge") than I can with a cross-draw. The static bow pry/wedge doesn't touch the gunwale, but is laid against the hull in the bow quarter. The turning power, especially if you heel to the outside of the turn, is quite abrupt and can eject the unwary. The wedge is especially useful on very twisty streams as the following brief videos illustrate:

I'd say most whitewater paddlers (at least solo) have gone to cab-forward paddling with forward and cross-forward strokes and very little correction. You are crossing sides all the time, but not changing your hands - it goes fast.

When a paddling a j-stroke, I see no reason not to pry off the gunwale.

The wedge is a great turning stroke - especially from the bow of a tandem. If you are not careful it can be a little too good and send you right over the gunwale.

 

[gumpus]

These are people who grew up in canoes, their strokes are unique and efficient.

I was thinking about this video while paddling and I concluded that if my boat were about 5 inches deeper I'd be gently pivoting off the gunwale too. Then I watched again snd realized that they are kneeling on the floor and sitting on their feet...enabling use of a short paddle that gave a high cruising cadence (efficient!). I also found it interesting that the cruising paddles didn't have big blades. I also noticed that the blades aren't always fully buried which made me wonder if the blade shape somehow helped; I've noticed among my paddles that some bite hard and quietly even without being fully buried while other paddle blades need to be buried to move through the water smoothly.

Great stuff

 

[DougK]

on my dominant R side, no pry off the gunnels, unless/until I am very tired indeed.. typically not a lot of force in the correction part of the stroke, bring the power to the hip, let it drift back then a quick turn of the blade and pull out with R hand for a correction, only when the blade is well behind. I can do that all day. On weak L side, can go maybe 10-20min then start prying like a weakling. Same stroke until correction, when the paddle shaft is rested on the gunnel and a light pry.

Clearly I need to paddle more and on the L side..
Oddly enough, I lift weights regularly, and swim a couple miles each week, none of this is enough to get my L side stronger it seems. I wonder if it's just neuromuscular, simply don't have the technique or enough training on the L.
Maybe in retirement I can paddle enough to find out.. ha.

Neither the wood paddle nor the gunnels of any of my boats, show much wear from this, some thirty years on that paddle. It might be different with a stroke that lets the paddle drag along the gunnels.

otoh, I have never done much switch paddling, started doing a lot more recently for strong headwinds on flatwater, as the correction stroke was simply not strong/fast enough to get headway on the new-to-me Wenonah Voyager.
mostly on flatwater I'm tandem with my wife who has enough power to get us through just about anything ;-) soloing is different I see.
Still working on the switch, feel I have much to learn still.

pic from the calm start of the day, no pics from the windy part as I was busy..

 

[Gamma1214]

So, does your paddle contact the hull during your stroke?

Yes, my paddle touches the gunwales occasionally. Often touches rocks, logs and mud too. Once, when unusually tired & grouchy, I threatened to touch a beaver with it if it didn't stop slapping its tail at me.

Sometimes it even touches the keel. I've developed a "side hull pry" which is an efficient way of grounding out so I don't tip over at landings:

I get in close, parallel to the shore and, as the hull touches the rocks / sand, I reach under the lakeward side until the paddle is firmly set against the lake bottom and then lift the grip of the paddle to pry the hull sideways onto the shore. Done well, it can quickly slide the boat a foot or so onto dry ground. (not recommended for high-end paddles that aren't up to the abuse)

Now, in my mind, the larger question is why does your shoulder hurt when paddling on one side? Surgery aside, is it the same on your strong side as your weak one? Are you following the gunwale back the hull during your stroke or are you (very correctly) trying to keep it parallel to the keel?

If you can follow the gunwale back & pry off more comfortably than you can hold your paddle away from the hull & j-stroke, I'd be doing that. Especially as you usually paddle solo... Who's gonna gripe; Sadie? The goat that you'll someday take instead?