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You Bet Your Life

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Jan 21, 2015
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NW Oklahoma
Yes, this is about paddling, because this will put an abrupt end or interruption to it. I've just been diagnosed with prostate cancer. As my doctor puts it, if every man lived to 120 years of ago, prostate cancer would represent 100% of the causes of death. Every man will have prostate trouble, but how it plays out varies with genetics, monitoring, early diagnosis, and prompt treatment. The bottom line is every man 40 years of age or over needs to have a PSA blood test every year. Both he and his doctor need to track it. Problems are found by rapid changes in PSA or continual elevation over time. If you are 40 and don't know your PSA, that is a problem. You need to keep up with it. Early discovery of any problem is the key. A man here in town put it off for awhile, feeling if he felt okay, he was. When he decided to finally have it checked out, he was told to just go home as spend as much time as possible with his family. It was too late to do anything. It had spread through his entire body. I don't mean to be a 'downer', but paddling depends on good health. It's important.
 
Thanks for sharing this. I think if I were in your shoes I'd be feeling pretty nervous.

It's important to know the nature of the cancer. If it's slow-growing, you may have many years ahead of you. If it's virulent, get thee to a urologist who does laser surgery - your best chance of success with minimal complications.

If you can paddle, keep it up. Just be careful about how you sit. If you're a kneeler, scootch back a bit on the front rail so there's no pressure on your prostate. It can get injured and give you orange pee (the voice of experience speaking here).
 
I'm 65. Late last year I told my doc I wanted to have another PSA test done. He was adamantly against it, saying that if it were elevated I'd get scared, have surgery, and end up impotent and dribbling. He's the same age as I am and deliberately does not know his own reading, and for just that reason. He says it's better not to know, because all you can do is treat the symptoms. That is, unless you want to take Proscar, which can shrink the prostate but also leave you impotent and incontinent. This is good medicine???

My plan was to try an herbal concoction that sometimes shrinks the prostate, and which he was vehemently against. So I had the test anyway and it revealed a PSA of just over 5. My doc sent me to the urologist (step 2 in ending up impotent and dribbling), and I declined. I'm taking Graminex and the jury is out on whether it's doing anything. I'll see what my PSA is next year and go from there.

Cancer runs in my family.
 
I was also using every kind of herbal support, and the digital exam showed nothing. That would lead some to think everything was okay. My doctor had referred me to a urologist who had also been monitoring. When my PSA went from 5.07 to 5.36, I was happy with such little increase, but the urologist said it was time to take a closer look-a biopsy. I'm just giving you these details as a platform to suggest maybe a closer look, and I don't think getting scared is as much a consideration as the need to be proactive. The left side was clear. The right side, however, was 5% cancer in the anterior, 56% in the median, and 74% in the posterior, with a Gleason scale of 6 on a 2 to 10 scale. My urologist is recommending cryotheropy (alternate flash freezing to -40-deg C and warming) as the best approach with least side-effects. We're to make a decision tomorrow while looking to see it there has been any spreading, and schedule the procedure. With a history of cancer in your family, jumping on this is all the more critical. It's your call, of course, but contrary to your general practitioner's inclination, putting one's head in the sand may not tell you much about what's going on at the other end. We all have to play the best odds.
 
Thanks for the additional info. Maybe I should see the urologist. Your PSA increase really was pretty small, so I wonder if there was something else that led your doc to look further. I agree totally with your "head in the sand" comment, and I'm considering changing docs, despite his widely-held good reputation.
 
Guys we like you for you. We don't care if you are impotent and dribbling. Do what you have to. The ostrich act can do you in.
I'm coming off chemo and it's no fun. I will have to change tripping style.
No longer will I be able to have kids. Now get real. Do any of you really want to father kids now? At some point what is of no use now ought to just fall off. For both men and women . It would save us from some cancers
There is a brightness on the horizon for me. I am here and paddling a couple of ponds outside Camden on Wed
I'd like to paddle with you someday and I don't care if you have to wear Depends
 
Guys we like you for you. We don't care if you are impotent and dribbling. ... I'd like to paddle with you someday and I don't care if you have to wear Depends

Kim, think about what impotence means. Dribbling is one thing, and if it means Depends, that's life. But the other is something else entirely.
 
Kim, think about what impotence means. Dribbling is one thing, and if it means Depends, that's life. But the other is something else entirely.



I know. I worked in the medical field before I retired. If you are dead you are impotent, The other is not life ending. Quads deal with it all the time.
 
Kim, do you really think someone whose sex life has just been terminated is going to consider himself fortunate because he isn't in a wheelchair besides? It doesn't work that way.
 
I'm with Kim. Living without sex is better than dying - especially doing so in the manner I have heard that can follow from prostate cancer. Take care, guys - and good health to you.
 
My Mom used to say getting old is hard work and not for sissies. Count your blessings. Onward thru the fog.

We all you want everyone to get better. Facing serious life threatening medical issues has taught me to show gratitude every day for seeing the right side of the grass. I am thrilled to run some more rivers this year.
 
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I haven't read all that many reports on what being dead is like, but I'm all too familiar with how grim and expensive these long drawn out medical procedures can be and the usual final terminal result. Not in all cases to be sure, but you've heard that old saying "You never get out of life alive"?

Considering that we've all got to face the end, I find it curious that so little support is extended to help it to not seem so awful. When I read in the obits that "so in so died after a long and courageous battle with cancer, I know dang well what the poor sod has gone through.

Usually the process at the end is determined by doctors and the medical industry and they are devoted to drawing it out just as long as possible.
Just saying, but for me, I believe I'll quit when I still have some control over things.

Rob
 
Thistlecap, I'm very sorry for your diagnosis and pray that can can successfully navigate the complicated treatment options and live a long life.

I'm going to share a lot of detail about male and female issues because my head was in the sand for decades. I rarely went to doctors or took any preventive tests or shots.

All men should be aware that there is a raging debate in the medical community about the need for and efficacy of PSA tests. There are dozens of articles that discuss the various arguments and points of view, but HERE'S a fairly recent article that leans to the anti-PSA test side, but does link to medical authorities. In a nutshell, the US Preventive Services Task Force and the American Academy of Family Physicians essentially recommend against the PSA test. The American Urological Association (which is the most self-interested) disagrees, but has modified it's recommended PSA testing schedule.

I personally recommend discussing (indeed, cross-examining) your urologist about these competing research studies and points of view. Unfortunately, you may find him not particularly knowledgeable. Many doctors are more akin to plumbers than scientists. Ultimately, I make my own decisions based on my own medical research. I currently opt to have annual PSA tests at age 70, which I had ignored from about age 55-65. I decided to do so because of increasingly intolerable BPH.

BPH, which at least 50% of men will get, significantly interfered with my canoe and camping life. I'd have to stop at every rest area on a highway and often be very creative. I'd have to get up four or five times a night, which isn't conducive to a good night's sleep in a tent. I had to carry relief bottles in my vehicles and with my camping kit.

I took every herbal concoction I could research beginning at about age 50, but they ultimately didn't stop the progression of the BPH. I still take them, but I finally agreed to take medication after I began to see a urologist. I first took tamsulosin (Flomax), which provided immediate and dramatic improvement, but then seemed to slowly lose effectiveness after a few years. We then added finasteride (Proscar) to the tamsulosin. That combination has been quite effective for several years now and has reduced the daytime and nocturnal frequency problems significantly. Often I can sleep through an entire night.

Both medications have similar side effects: retrograde ejaculation and a loss of libido. Those side effects are a long way from impotence, however, and there is no incontinence whatsoever. (Both impotence and incontinence are big risks of prostate cancer surgery.) However, the cause of the loss of libido is very confused with simple old age, which does the same thing independent of the BPH. A much younger man would likely be bothered by these BPH medication side effects much more than an older and less sexually active man.

Yellowcanoe's sharing of her cancer contributed significantly to motivating me to research gynecological cancer risks, because my wife's mother had died of ovarian cancer. That research helped convince my wife to have pelvic sonograms and MRI's along with tumor marker blood tests, some of which were difficult to finagle through Medicare. The imaging showed a mass on the ovaries and a thickening of the uterus. Through my own research -- not our internist's mechanistic referral -- we then located a doctor who we thought was the best credentialed gynecological oncologist in Connecticut, trained in laparoscopic and robotic surgery at Harvard, Yale and the Mayo Clinic.

Dr. Zhou recommended removal of the ovaries and fallopian tubes and a hysteroscopy ("DNC"). My wife had that laparoscopic surgery last week. No cancer was found in the ovaries, just a benign tumor, and we are awaiting final pathology results of a uterine polyp that was found. Her surgical recovery has been uncomplicated, and she hasn't needed to take even a even one ibuprofen for residual pain. We've also scheduled counseling for genetic testing for the BRCA gene mutation (the Angelina Jolie problem), though it's unlikely my wife has that issue. The test is important for our daughter because the gene mutation can be inherited.

Both men and women should get their heads out of the sand regarding the reproductive organ diseases of advancing age. There are similar debates now raging about the proper use and scheduling of breast exams and pap tests. Get advice from doctors -- more than one if you are confused -- and also do your own research if you feel comfortable doing that. Personally, I don't buy most of the arguments against preventive testing. This issue relates more to what to do if you get a positive result from one of those tests. At worst, you could end up having unnecessary cancer surgery with bad side effects, which does happen in the case of prostate cancer. At best, you will save your life from a horrible death. Medicine is as much an art as a science, in my opinion, and it all involves a balancing of risks in a wilderness of uncertainty.
 
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That was an interesting post, Glenn. And I just wanted to say, after what we witnessed from you this past winter with your axe and knife threads, I don't think your wife could have had a better partner when it came to researching doctors and treatment options. If I ever get sick I'd be glad to have you on the case.

Alan
 
Nicely written Glenn. I played ostrich for two canoe trips ( because I didn't want anything to interfere with them... what a stupid approach). So I did not do any research but went with the flow.. It seems human to want to deny anything could go wrong..particularly in a sensitive area.
All went well but I would strongly advise getting tested early. Anything you can do to avoid chemo is a positive thing.. and you can avoid chemo only by early detection.

Chemo effects can last a very long time even if the course of treatment is short. I got back in a canoe yesterday inspite of cold damp day. It felt good.

Yes medicine is part art but increasingly institutionalized. I said no to prescribed chem treatment six because the CT scan the week before revealed no cancer and I could not reason just why I wanted to become increasingly sick and disabled. Chemo is poison.. The answer the oncologist was that six treatments were the statistical best outcome.

I am me. Not a statistic. You do have to keep numbers in mind but when they made no sense, statistics and I parted ways.

And now we are packed for a late snowbird Florida canoe trip in a rotten old Penobscot. It floats and that is all that matters. Other than we are in it to experience being outdoors and enjoying seeing the wildlife.
 
Glenn, thanks for the detailed post. Female issues receive a lot of coverage on talk shows, specials, news programs, commercials, and so on. You can hardly turn the TV on without hearing about female problems. Males get very little information, possibly because of men's reluctance to discuss personal issues. I knew very little, and had a hard time getting information. One thing that hasn't been discussed here is cryotherapy or cryosurgery. Much has evolved recently. Cryotherapy isn't new; it's been used for surface skin cancers for decades. Cryosurgery for prostate cancer is a much newer concept and newer in getting widespread acceptance.. One of the most common side effects of prostate treatment are bladder, rectal, and urethra damage during treatment, to a lesser degree, but even with the newer targeted treatments like proton therapy. The advantage of cryosurgery for prostate cancer is that the treatment is more isolated, therefore much less likely to cause injury to surrounding tissue. Temperature probes are inserted around the prostate to warn of possible risk, and the freeze probe is then inserted and guided with ultrasound imaging to the targeted area. The diseased tissue is frozen to -40deg C, then alternately thawed and refrozen to kill the cancer. Recovery from the procedure is about 3 weeks for a return to limited activity, and about 6 weeks for complete unlimited recovery. This is what I've been told so far, but my treatment has yet to be schedules. I may have a different perspective in hindsight, but have been assured by a couple doctors that this is the way to go for early stage cancer that has not spread. Afterwards, the PSA should drop substantially, and is monitored every 6 months into the future and hopefully for about up to 10 years of disease-free paddling. The chomo and radiation treatment come into play if the problem is more severe or more general in diseased area, which is all the more reason for early testing and monitoring.
 
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