Thoughts on Northstar Polaris or Northstar Boreas?

[Bob B.]

I have a Polaris in blacklite. It is light, fast and a stiff hull, I paddle solo - but am about 220 lbs. I paddle with my 2 dogs, both 65 pounds ... before they are wet and full of sand.

The canoe handles this weight well ... live weight going in the same direction - or - opposite direction ... can get a little tender, but once the dogs settle, it is very predictable and the canoe still has the same glide as when I paddle with just me and no dogs. It is a pretty nice hull to paddle. I do not use it much currently as my old dog moves too much, his joints hurt him and he repositions a lot ... the narrow hull is hard for him.

When I only canoed with 1 dog - 65 pounds, my self and a weeks worth of kit it was very fast, maneuverable and solid feeling. The live weight of two dogs "settling in " can be a little tender.

I think you will be very happy with a Polaris .

All this said, the Seliga has been on my lust list for years.

Bob.

 

[tketcham]

I think you will be very happy with a Polaris .

I'm thinking I should just commit and give the Northstar dealer a call. My hesitation is more about having to sell our Curtis Northstar.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

As with many aging canoeists, we're considering replacing one of our canoes with something lighter.

Tom, I've never paddled either Northstar tandem or even seen them.

However, I'll be bold and speculate that you and Nancy are of a size and vintage that would enjoy, and use, a lightweight day tripping tandem, which can easily be flipped on a small vehicle, significantly more than some big honker tandem that can carry sinks and bathtubs on long overnight trips.

The Keewaydin 15 is a fine cruising solo canoe, and I believe @gumpus does too (although his is not ultralight), so I'm not sure what would be significantly negative about a Keewaydin 16 for a day tripping tandem. I believe it's Swift's best seller in the 16'-17' range, and it's the base hull (stretched) for the new Swift 18' Wabakimi.

The ideal situation, of course, would be to test paddle both the Polaris and the Kee 16, which you may be able to do with dealers of both brands within a day of you.

For an even more maneuverable and lighter weight day tandem, which also has a lower windage sheerline than the Polaris or Kee, and which could dance much better than either down the Batsto, consider a Savage River Harmony.

Whatever you get, keep the Curtis Northstar for a while. It's a historic canoe.

 

[tketcham]

Whatever you get, keep the Curtis Northstar for a while. It's a historic canoe.

It is, and a lot of fun to paddle on all sorts of water. I can still lift it onto and off the car without too much trouble but I'd rather swap it out now while we can still get many more years out of a lighter canoe. A Swift Keewaydin 16 or Savage River Harmony would both be enjoyable, I'm sure of it, but the Polaris shares a history with the Curtis Northstar (?) and so I'm leaning in that direction. There are so many great canoes out there these days that choosing one over another isn't as much about finding the "perfect" canoe, but learning how to paddle each canoe perfectly.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

but the Polaris shares a history with the Curtis Northstar and so I'm leaning in that direction.

Not sure what you mean. All three canoes are 16' DY designs.

All three have very close specs, especially the Polaris and Kee. The main difference I see is that the Curtis Northstar is from DY's bubble-sided tumblehome era, before his shouldered gunwale era, and all the Swift Kee hulls are a return to that bubble-sided tradition but with the fullness carried further towards the ends. The Polaris hull, in contrast, has shouldered or tucked-in gunwales on top of a rather straight-sided or even slightly flared hull. I suspect these differences would be noticeable in efficiency and stability, but have no idea exactly how.

Polaris:



Swift Kee 15:



The Kee can be made lighter with Swift's superior and more aesthetic (and expensive?) technology.

Regardless, I fully agree with this philosophy:

choosing one over another isn't as much about finding the "perfect" canoe, but learning how to paddle each canoe perfectly.

 

[tketcham]

All three have very close specs, especially the Polaris and Kee. The main difference I see is that the Curtis Northstar is from DY's bubble-sided tumblehome era, before his shouldered gunwale era, and all the Swift Kee hulls are a return to that bubble-sided tradition but with the fullness carried further towards the ends. The Polaris hull, in contrast, has shouldered or tucked-in gunwales on top of a rather straight-sided or even slightly flared hull. I suspect these differences would be noticeable in efficiency and stability, but have no idea exactly how.

Glenn, I took a quick look at the sides of the Northstar (hanging in the garage and bagged, so a very cursory look) and you may be correct about the bubble-sided Curtis and Swift canoes vs the shouldered Polaris. The Polaris side walls appear to share more in common with my Northstar Firebird than the other two. Looking at overhead images of the Keewaydin 16 (16' 0") and Northstar Polaris (16' 9"), the difference in bow/stern flare is noticeable, with the Polaris having sleeker hull lines, which I'm partial to. I wouldn't mind a bit more paddling efficiency and potential speed at the expense of a little maneuverability. I'll have to lower the Curtis Northstar tomorrow and see if I can take an overhead shot of the canoe for comparison, plus get a better look at the side walls.

The weight difference between a Kevlar Fusion Swift Keewaydin 16 (35 lbs) and a Kevlar Starlite Northstar Polaris (38 lbs) isn't a deal breaker for me. I do like the Carbon/Kevlar gunwales of Swift canoes but I can live with aluminum.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Looking at overhead images of the Keewaydin 16 (16' 0") and Northstar Polaris (16' 9"), the difference in bow/stern flare is noticeable, with the Polaris having sleeker hull lines, which I'm partial to.

My aging eyes didn't catch that the Polaris is 16-9, not 16-0 like the Keewaydin 16 and Curtis Northstar. So, yes, that makes the Polaris look a bit sleeker in an overhead plan view. But that doesn't mean it will paddle faster at hull speed or more efficiently at less than hull speed. Those are more a function of the waterline length and shape (prismatic coefficient).

From a historical lineage perspective, I'd say the bubbled 16-0 Keewaydin 16 (~2011) is more closely akin to the bubbled 16-0 Curtis Northstar (~1986) than the non-bubbled 16-9 Polaris (~2020) is. What did DY design in the 16+ range in between Curtis and Swift? Maybe the 16-6 Bell Northstar?

All very nice DY designs on the narrower side of the beam scale. Can't go wrong with any of them from a design perspective, but the weights range widely depending on the composite fabric and resin technique.

 

[NikonF5user]

The weight difference between a Kevlar Fusion Swift Keewaydin 16 (35 lbs) and a Kevlar Starlite Northstar Polaris (38 lbs) isn't a deal breaker for me. I do like the Carbon/Kevlar gunwales of Swift canoes but I can live with aluminum.

Do not forget that the Polaris can be had with carbon gunwales (although I do not believe they are integrated as they are with a Swift) which both stiffen the Starlite boat and drop the weight by a pound. You can also get all carbon components to shave 3 pounds, but it's quite a bit more expensive. Finally the new stealth layup is quite alluring, and makes the Polaris clock in at less than 32 pounds!

 

[tketcham]

What did DY design in the 16+ range in between Curtis and Swift? Maybe the 16-6 Bell Northstar?

That's what I thought I'd read or heard. I'll have to review the history Charlie Wilson has provided over the years.

Can't go wrong with any of them from a design perspective, but the weights range widely depending on the composite fabric and resin technique.

And cost.

 

[tketcham]

Finally the new stealth layup is quite alluring, and makes the Polaris clock in at less than 32 pounds!

As I replied to Gumpus previously, that Stealth build emphasizes the adage of "lowest weight = highest price". (And it's more fragile.) I'm looking at dropping weight from 55 lbs to 38 lbs. I can live with that, until I cannot, and then I have a 22 lb solo to fall back on. Or into.