No Rack. Boatless Summer?

[Chip]

A buddy recruited me for a trip west. I peered into the back of the van just now: there’s no paddling gear. And I’m wondering if it will be a summer without boats.

Backstory: 1) we headed west with no boats because my buddy isn’t a boater. 2) I just traded in my Tacoma for a cargo van. I need to install mounting tracks on the van.

For the new van, I want Thule comparability because I have Thule racks and accessories that will be expensive to replace. All I need is to instal tracks, and... they’re out. Until at least October. So, will this be a summer of no boating?

it wouldn’t be too hard to weld up track replacements, which I won’t discuss here because we are not in the DIY forum. I’d rather get the real thing.

I'm kicking myself for not taking the tracks off the Leer cap. It would have left 14 holes in the cap, but it turns out the dealer didn’t care. I was in a time crunch, and not knowing the tracks were out of stock, I let the tracks go.

any suggestions?

 

[LanceR]

If the van has rain gutters that opens a lot of ladder rack options without making holes which would at least get you through to fall. I haven't looked at vans in so long I don't know if they even have rain gutter anymore.....

Best regards,


Lance

 

[lowangle al]

That sounds like a cool road trip Chip. I hauled an OT Tripper from Pa. to Ak. using the foam blocks that attach to the gunnels and had no problems. It would be a shame to go with no boat.

 

[yellowcanoe]

I hear you. I have lots of Yakima racks. Now a truck that took an Adarac nicely ( we decided not to add a cap this round) . However I do not have the correct Yakima feet. I have a lot of Yakima feet that do not fit.. I ordered two feet ( I just need a rack for long boats over the cab not the bed). Out of stock till August. Meanwhile there was a reason we never got rid of our assemblage of foam blocks I am finding...
I do have four fake raingutters but they are on our secondary vehicle.. Not ready to sell either alas.

 

[gumpus]

One can often find used racks and rack parts on craigslist or Facebook marketplace.

Foam blocks with bow and stern tie-downs could be a good option too.

 

[Guest]

Chip, if as discussed during our shop visit, you bought a Transit Cargo van there is some outfitting info here, including a bed platform, sound deadening material for the clangy walls and Van Tech crossbars (x3) from Rack Warehouse.

https://www.canoetripping.net/forums...oday-nice-rack

We later used some old Thule HullyRollers and a pair of Set & Glide saddles to make loading sea kayaks easier on that tall roofline. You can kinda see them here, along with one foam block

P5250028 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Those Van Tech crossbars also accepted a Thule bike carrier, and a Rocket Box. Installing Load Stops or Gunwale brackets might need some adaptation for the Van Tech areo crossbars, but seems equally doable.

 

[Will Derness]

Long shot, but Leer caps use Thule for their rack builds. Maybe Leer might have an inventory of rails they might sell your local dealer.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

For the new van, I want Thule comparability because I have Thule racks and accessories that will be expensive to replace. All I need is to instal tracks, and... they’re out. Until at least October.

I've used three different vans for canoeing over the past 40 years. The first and third had rain gutters. The second one didn't. I don't know what you mean by "tracks", but on my second van I installed Thule artificial rain gutters so I could use my Thule rain gutter foot towers and bars. These artificial rain gutters seem to be widely available:

https://www.amazon.com/Thule-Artificial-Rain-Gutters/dp/B00CBW6OXW

https://www.rackwarehouse.com/thule-542-bolt-on-artificial-rain-gutters.html

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...ule/TH542.html

The artificial gutters had to be bolted through the roof with waterproof washers and, as I recall, the headliner had to be peeled back to do it.

 

[Guest]

I think Chip bought a Transit Connect, the smaller size Ford Transit. While he was visiting the shop we had a chance to inspect a Connect and a full-size Transit, both the cargo versions from contractors doing some work at my place. Both had ladder/construction roof racks.

Those cargo vans are designed to accept aftermarket roof racks via threaded receivers on the roof located above the pillars. With that feature already available, eliminating the need to drill holes in the roof or install artificial rain gutters, I would opt to buy construction/ladder racks design for the Transit roof receivers.

The roof on the Transit cargo we outfitted had indents and (capped) receiver threads to accommodate a variety of aftermarket ladder/construction racks.

PA171249 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

PA171251 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

PA171256 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

As simple as pulling the cap and using the (included) bolts to attach them. The indents/receiver threads are part of the interior roof pillars, and the racks were rated at 700lbs. Structurally those crossbars are very sturdy.

PA221281 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Beyond that made-to-fit and screw-in-a-bolt installation those construction/ladder racks are $250 for a two crossbar set, and $300 for a three crossbar set and, unlike sold out Thule stuff, probably available before October.

The racks we installed were Van Techs, the contractor’s two Transit vans had aftermarket racks from two different companies.

FWIW the Transit cargo version we worked on had no headliner, or sound proofing, just bare clangy metal walls and roof. We installed Noico sound deadening mat on the walls and roof, and even inside the front door panels.

https://www.amazon.com/Noico-deadeni.../dp/B00URUIKAK

It took two packs to cover the walls and roof, but that sound deadening mat made a huge difference in how noisy the van is on the road.

PA231288 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

PA231289 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

I spoke with Chip yesterday, on the road headed west in his clangy noisy cargo van. Methinks he’ll want to install some sound deadening mat once he returns. And some aftermarket construction racks designed to fit on his cargo van.

(Chip, best to make a paper template of the sound deadening mat shape/size, and cut it with a band saw. Some of the shapes are recurring, so don’t trash the templates ‘til you are done)

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I think Chip bought a Transit Connect . . . .Those cargo vans are designed to accept aftermarket roof racks via threaded receivers on the roof located above the pillars.

Well, if there are factory threaded bolt holes for rack attachments, that's a new and different story.

I don't know much about vehicles built this century, having only owned two in my life, but both my 2007 Saab and 2013 Mercedes sedans have factory bolt holes for factory racks, which are actually made by Thule and customized for the roof dimensions of the many particular vehicles. I was able to buy the OEM Saab rack new from a Massachusetts dealer on close-out sale for $120 vs. about $400 for a Thule. I also got very slightly used Mercedes OEM rack in a private sale for $65 vs. about $350 from Mercedes and $500 from Thule, and the guy even threw in a brand new set of Mercedes brakes that he no longer needed.

But drilling the artificial rain gutter holes in the Ford Aerostar wasn't hard. Even I could do that. Come to think of it, we drilled and bolted right through the headliner because I didn't care about the internal roof aesthetics on a high mileage used van. One thing about rain gutters, factory or artificial, the racks can be removed and replaced in a few minutes if you want them off the roof. I know nothing about construction van ladder racks.

 

[Chip]

Thanks for all the ideas.

to my recollection, there are no mounting points on the roof. I got the baby Transit Connect, an entirely different vehicle than Joel has. I’d love to discover I’m wrong.

If Thule had the rack tracks, I’d be drilling holes to mount the tracks. Anyway I go, I figure I’m drilling the roof. So, that part doesn’t bother me. My buddy’s Ram van has marker lights over the cab. It rained during the trip I’m on, and I had water dripping through the rightmost light mount. I hope I can avoid leaks in my roof.

So few vehicles have rain gutters, I don’t want to buy anything that is dependent on rain gutters.

McCrae often tells me how he loves spending my money. So, thank you Mike for your rack recommendations, but my first preference is to stay with Thule gear. I will be dropping some money into that insulating material. Being on a long trip in my buddy’s cargo van, I definitely see the need for sound insulation. I got hoarse yelling to my friend in that van at 70mph.

 

[Guest]

to my recollection, there are no mounting points on the roof. I got the baby Transit Connect, an entirely different vehicle than Joel has. I’d love to discover I’m wrong.

If Thule had the rack tracks, I’d be drilling holes to mount the tracks. Anyway I go, I figure I’m drilling the roof.

We should have taken a better look at the rack set up on the roofer’s baby Transit Connect. If Baby does have mounting points on the roofline maybe Thule makes simple bolt-on feet/towers for those mounts that accept their rectangular crossbars. It is a popular vehicle, and Thule should make those; whether you have to wait until October to receive them is another story.

If a Thule solution is boatless summer unavailable, and Baby does have mounting points, well, I am a fan of heavy duty construction racks, especially for folks who, like tradesmen, never remove their racks. $250 for a two crossbar, 700lb capacity set of racks is a steal.


In any case having a cargo version with no headliner would make drilling holes easier.

McCrae often tells me how he loves spending my money.

I will be dropping some money into that insulating material. Being on a long trip in my buddy’s cargo van, I definitely see the need for sound insulation. I got hoarse yelling to my friend in that van at 70mph.

The Noico sound deadening mat made a real difference in Joel’s cargo van. McCrea does loving spending your money; you will need to buy the $10 metal barrel roller, it is a necessity for proper installation.

https://www.amazon.com/Noico-Install...15WJH4ZW&psc=1

“Audio insulation Noico has a special indicator as to if it is installed correctly. The special embossing on the foil must be rolled out with a roller till it is plain smooth, then you'll be 100% sure that the insulation is set correctly”

I doubt an inexpensive wall paper roller or the like would cut it. That made-for metal barrel roller was one sturdy ball bearing bugger; you need to put a lot of pressure on the roller, covering every square inch, before the special embossing goes smooth all over.

(The hard roller for compressing Dynel under peel ply came from seeing that application)

Like many tasks installing the sound deadening material was easier as a two person job, one guy Sharpie tracing pre-made template patterns on the material and cutting it to size and shape, one guy inside the van with that metal barrel roller, pressing it into place. Rolling out a van’s worth of roof and walls with that that sound deadener material is a lot of hard pressed roller work.

PA221273 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

I chose to be cutter, stand (sometimes sit) beside the band saw, cutting out the next piece and handing it over, and my arm hurt just watching Joel. It was nice to have the van and band saw in close proximity, so I didn’t have to get up every 5 minutes and walk too far. It was still a long several hours.

FWIW we tried several methods for cutting that thick adhesive/foil/butyl material into the necessary curved-edge wall shapes; scissors, snips, razor knife. The band saw was absolutely the way to go for clean, precise cuts, and the saw blade cut through it like butter.

Don’t forget inside the door panels.

 

[Guest]

my first preference is to stay with Thule gear.

Chip, I understand wanting to stay Thule. Most of our stuff for the last 20 years has been and still is Thule.

Trying to spend less of Chip’s money for a change, I have a box of spare Thule parts. A looksee reveals (what should be) a full set of the Tracker II mounts and feet/towers that fit our old CR-V’s, the same ones used the Taco’s Leer cap. Plus a lot of bolts and mounting hardware for those Tracker II’s.

Four each of the TK8 Tracker mounts. Those stay stubby-peg left mounted to the roof, and look like this:

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...xoCRiEQAvD_BwE

Three (?) Tracker II 420 feet/towers that fit on those mounts, with locking cores and key. Once unlocked those towers press-a-button lift on/off in seconds. In that regard they are most convenient racks I have ever owned; no need to leave them on 24/7/365 in all weather. Hint, hint. . . . .

https://www.canoetripping.net/forums...of-a-thule-bar

Even with the locking cores I take them off at some sketchy put-ins, so as to not advertise “Gone paddling, help yourself”. With the feet and crossbars removed all that is left visible are four discrete little pegs. Probably better MPG when I don’t need to need the racks attached.

Tracker II feet/towers like this:

https://cambriabike.com/products/thu...hoCKHMQAvD_BwE

Plenty sturdy; I binged a guardrail hard on a black ice curve in the CR-V, carrying two 70lb boats on those racks. Nothing budged. Same with hundreds (maybe thousands) of miles of dirt roads with two canoes on the Leer cap’s Tracker II’s.

The 4[SUP]th[/SUP] Tracker II foot must be around here somewhere. If those parts and pieces are of interest, and will get you Transit Baby racked this season, let me know and I’ll have a look for foot #4.

Hidden within those links is a hint. If you can’t order what you want from Thule or one of the rack retailers, you may find it at some on-line place like those etrailer and bike shop links.

Or Willie’s suggestion:

Long shot, but Leer caps use Thule for their rack builds. Maybe Leer might have an inventory of rails they might sell your local dealer.

The way Leer attaches the TK8 Tracker Mount pegs is affixed to two “rails”, mounted lengthwise on the cap. Kinda like adding artificial rails, but mounted horizontal on the roof. On a flat cap for an 8’ truck bed those rails are (guessing) near 7 feet long. How long is the roofline on Baby Transit?

The Leer cap system using those rails,TK8 pegs and Tracker II feet looks like this:

https://mobilliving.com/product/thul...f-rack-system/

The ability to distance the racks strategically along those rails is a boon if you also carry a bike rack, skis or rocket box on the roof. Might be worth a visit to stop by and chat up your local Leer cap dealer.

EDIT: Also in that box of Thule parts, 8, count ‘em, 8 of these that held the TK8’s on the CR-V.

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Thule/853-5703.html

 

[Guest]

I expect to see racks on Chip’s Transit in a few days.

Chip just left with the old CR-V attachment rails for the TK8 pegs and, I hope, most of the bolts/nuts he needs to install the Tracker II towers and TK8 pegs, repurposed from his old Tacoma onto his new Baby Transit. I even threw in some sturdy sheet “rubber” to soften the mounting transition so it isn’t metal rail-on-metal roof scraping rusty.

A Baby Transit which, BTW, does in fact have multiple pairs pre-drilled holes through the roof in structurally sturdy locations, those holes factory plugged top & bottom. Including a pair near the very back, for easy set the bow on the rear crossbar & slide the canoe in place on high roof line racking.

It was a dang short visit, Chip was psyched to get racks on Baby Transit, and we didn’t settle on a price. He mentioned something about $1.95 and a six pack of Guinness stout, which seemed fair for old rack parts I will never use again. Promises, promises.

Chip, that is a popular, gobs-of-storage-space cargo van. Please post how-to photos as you install the old Thule rack parts and overcome any challenges.

Get the racks on and come back up. Make the sound deadening mat templates first and I’ll cut the mat for the noisy naked walls and roof on the band saw, and hand you pieces to hard roller adhesive in place. BYOR (Bring Your Own Roller)

Then we can cogitate a Murphy-bed folding sleep platform for the cargo area, angle adjustable for when you are camped on a slant.