New cars: are they as impossible as they seem for cartopping?

[Tsuga8]

Good discussion here. Well, sounds like folks with newer cars are managing one way or another, which somewhat relieves my apprehensions. Still going to keep my current car on the road as long as possible.

As far as the age-old bow-lines debate, I have successfully transported solos and tandems up to 16ft at 'local higway' speeds i.e. up to 60ish without bowlines many times. I have definitely had yaw from semis passing and crosswinds on interstates (and going thru Keene Valley in the Adks last year).

Since I'm currently sporting homemade crossbars out of 2x3s, I've decided to pretty much always use bowlines even locally (tho even going to my closest flatwater spots I hit 60mph on the local highway), mostly in case of a wreck. I don't want my boat going thru someone else's windshield if my bars or main straps fail. It's a bit of belt and suspenders overkill most of the time, but you almost never need a seatbelt or PFD either....until you do. I do make exceptions for the local creek which I get to on real backroads, don't exceed 40mph, and rarely have on-coming traffic.

On the interstate with a longer boat (16ft) I'll add a line from the stern to the trunk door, using a very improvised hunk of 2x2 thru a loop shut in the trunk. It irks me greatly that my generation of Forester has no good tie-points on the back end. I could bolt loops with grommets to the inside trunk door frame (currently use them on the biw) but I don't need the stern tie often enough to bother.

 

[goonstroke]

...
On the interstate with a longer boat (16ft) I'll add a line from the stern to the trunk door, using a very improvised hunk of 2x2 thru a loop shut in the trunk. It irks me greatly that my generation of Forester has no good tie-points on the back end. I could bolt loops with grommets to the inside trunk door frame (currently use them on the biw) but I don't need the stern tie often enough to bother.

Where's the tow truck anchor point on your Forester? On my Crosstrek it's an eye bolt that screws into the rear bumper, and I use that when I tie off the stern. It's at a convenient height, which is nice, but the downside is I have to find it in the spare tire kit and screw it in. Also it's only a single point, slightly off center.

 

[jdeerfoot]

Where's the tow truck anchor point on your Forester? On my Crosstrek it's an eye bolt that screws into the rear bumper, and I use that when I tie off the stern. It's at a convenient height, which is nice, but the downside is I have to find it in the spare tire kit and screw it in. Also it's only a single point, slightly off center.

For a rear tie down point I use the trailer hitch receiver. I have had 4 Foresters and each has had a hitch which I use regularly with a hitch hauler and trailer.

 

[Tsuga8]

I don't have a trailer hitch, so no dice there (often thought about getting one; never have).

@goonstroke on my Forester that eye bolt is fairly off center, but more importantly, the downsides you mentioned apply to me as well. My 2x2 and webbing loop slammed in the door are easier than digging that eye bolt out of the spare tire well, esp because my tub of emergency gear is bungeed into the trunk on top of the well cover.

 

[MrPoling]

I'm good with two cam buckle belly straps 95% of the time. The only time I add bow and stern ropes is when I'm driving long distance, more than a couple hundred miles at interstate speeds.

This is my practice, but my vans racks are about 1 ft farther apart than most sedans. The narrower span on a sedan might force me to use a bow* line above 60 mph or on windy days.

Most bow or stern lines do very little to stop front to back motion. The geometry is normally wrong. I prefer a strap from the hitch up and forward to the thwart or yoke. This will help stop forward motions during a sudden stop. I have a cam strap with a carbineer, allowing quick removal to access the rear hatch.

*I really mean front-of-car, because I don't worry about the canoe's orientation unless I need the lock point. Forward or backward isn't important because it is bad luck to be superstitious.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

*I really mean front-of-car, because I don't worry about the canoe's orientation unless I need the lock point. Forward or backward isn't important because it is bad luck to be superstitious.

This is something that owners of asymmetrical canoes should think of more. Whether a canoe is oriented bow-stern or stern-bow atop a vehicle doesn't matter if the canoe is perfectly symmetrical. However, many asymmetrical canoes are fuller in the bow and narrower in the more skegged or pinched stern. Hence, they may part wind more efficiently if oriented with the stern facing forward. Of course, that may not be true if the canoe is swedeform, in which case we all have to use topological calculus equations before we can mount our canoes on our jalopies.

 

[tketcham]

This is something that owners of asymmetrical canoes should think of more.

I've been orienting our 18.5' Odyssey with the stern forward because when we center the widest section of the canoe between the two roof racks the stern section extends much farther than the bow section. Might not matter much with a sedan but with our hatchback it makes a big difference.

 

[clemency]

Most bow or stern lines do very little to stop front to back motion. The geometry is normally wrong.

I make sure my bow tie down points are behind the bow, and my stern tie down points are in front of the stern. So I think they DO stop front and back motion.

 

[Nick Pending]

I've been orienting our 18.5' Odyssey with the stern forward because when we center the widest section of the canoe between the two roof racks the stern section extends much farther than the bow section. Might not matter much with a sedan but with our hatchback it makes a big difference.

I do the same, Wenonah Odyssey 18-6 stern forward on a Dodge Grand Caravan because the sheerline puts the stern a bit higher for a better view from under the boat -- I can more easily see stoplights and such. With the bow forward, the boat hangs lower and I can't see as well. I don't care about karma and such, figure seeing what's going on is more important and will keep me alive longer, at least on the road.

 

[Cheeseandbeans]

I don't have a trailer hitch, so no dice there (often thought about getting one; never have).

I’ve put on a few. Not difficult. You are welcome to use my shop with a lift if interested. It sure makes the job easier.

Bob

 

[goonstroke]

This is something that owners of asymmetrical canoes should think of more. Whether a canoe is oriented bow-stern or stern-bow atop a vehicle doesn't matter if the canoe is perfectly symmetrical. However, many asymmetrical canoes are fuller in the bow and narrower in the more skegged or pinched stern. Hence, they may part wind more efficiently if oriented with the stern facing forward. Of course, that may not be true if the canoe is swedeform, in which case we all have to use topological calculus equations before we can mount our canoes on our jalopies.

I've been orienting our 18.5' Odyssey with the stern forward because when we center the widest section of the canoe between the two roof racks the stern section extends much farther than the bow section. Might not matter much with a sedan but with our hatchback it makes a big difference.

I do the same, Wenonah Odyssey 18-6 stern forward on a Dodge Grand Caravan because the sheerline puts the stern a bit higher for a better view from under the boat -- I can more easily see stoplights and such. With the bow forward, the boat hangs lower and I can't see as well. I don't care about karma and such, figure seeing what's going on is more important and will keep me alive longer, at least on the road.

I respect the backwards swedeform coalition, but I've always hesitated to join it because it would put the trailing end of the boat farther out over the rear bumper. My shortest canoe is longer than either of our cars. I always flag the end with something red, but still I worry that someone will stop too close at a light and headbutt my boat.

At the front end, I've often wondered if the huge 22 inch deep bow of my Rx Champlain would offer some protection if I ever ran into a moose. I hope not to find out.

This topic has a lot of legs ...

 

[tketcham]

I've always hesitated to join it because it would put the trailing end of the boat farther out over the rear bumper.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to convey. I put the stern forward because it extends further out from the roof racks when the widest portion of the canoe is centered between them. By having the bow to the rear of our hatchback the canoe doesn't stick out as far, there's less canoe to bump our heads on, less canoe for people to run into.

 

[MrPoling]

At the front end, I've often wondered if the huge 22 inch deep bow of my Rx Champlain would offer some protection if I ever ran into a moose. I hope not to find out.

I have a umm... friend, who in his younger years rolled a Jeep Cherokee over the bank and into the trees. The Blue Hole OCA on top of the Jeep sacrificed itself, cushioning the impact and distributing it across the vehicle. It prevented intrusions into the cabin.

So yes, a strong canoe would probably be an asset in a collision with a moose. But it would be best not to find out

 

[Tsuga8]

I’ve put on a few. Not difficult. You are welcome to use my shop with a lift if interested. It sure makes the job easier.

Bob

Thank you, Bob! Appreciate the offer!

 

[billconner]

Kind of interesting.

 

[Sweetfancymoses]

All of this makes me nervous to replace my Forester, which is still going at >230k miles but may not go forever (knock on wood!).

I just got a 2024 Subaru Forester. I attached hood loops to the hinges by taking off one of the nuts and replacing them over the grommet of the hoodloop which worked just fine. Better angle of attack anyway compared to bringing them to the bumper. I did the same in the rear. The eyesight camera doesn't mind the canoe or the tie downs. I was able to keep my cross bars from the 2019 model. I also installed a hitch so I can continue to serve as a Hummer Recovery Unit.

 

[yknpdlr]

This is the large screw that I use to attach my nylon loops in my 2024 Wilderness Forester. it has been in the same location on all my previous Subarus and is perfectly placed to secure the bow line of every canoe I have transported.

 

[Tsuga8]

@Sweetfancymoses and @yknpdlr glad the new Foresters at least seem to be useable for cartopping!

 

[Tsuga8]

Dare I ask if anyone has an EV they cartop with?

 

[Paddlinhal]

it is bad luck and bad for karma to transport a canoe stern forward. Besides, the first generation Rapidfire has a short grip handle only in the bow for the tie down. There was no such thing installed in the stern.

I paddle my boat backwards so...