Ok, here's one for all of you "senior" paddlers. In my very limited experience paddling canoes, I have always found paddling from a seated tandem seat to be very hard on my back. Hence the reason I purchased a kayak. With the latter, I use more upper body strength as opposed to lower back muscles. However, I have never tried paddling a canoe from a kneeling position while leaning against a seat or thwart. Is that position any less strenuous on the lower back? My apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere or is just too elementary a question.
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Lower back issues
- Thread starter FuzzyBadger
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The kneeling canoe position causes me the least back problems. I once paddled with a man who turned out to be a back doctor. he said that he prescribes office chairs that have an identical position to a kneeling solo canoe to his back patients.
Turtle
Turtle
Yes. Kneeling is easier on your back if your knees agree. However if you are sitting the key to back comfort is the same as in a kayak.. Foot pegs or a foot bar. You get the most power then from your legs for paddling and your abs and really canoeing doesn't take much arm power.
Seats for kneeling are usually higher and the front edge is about an inch lower than the rear edge
Seats for kneeling are usually higher and the front edge is about an inch lower than the rear edge
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Good day, I have 3 disks in my back that are in bad shape, that cause sciatica problems, the only position I can use is kneeling, I can kneel for hours on w/o any problems! I use to race and paddle marathon, sit and switch style, and I use to guide sea kayaking, 2 things I can't do anymore.I just can't have my legs in front of me wile paddling!! But kneeling from a seat or a pedestal(ww canoes) is not a problem at all!!
Back in 2007 and in earlier year I had episodes of a terrible back problem, with sciatica all the way down one leg. After a drive I had to practically crawl out of my car and it took at least 10-20 steps before i could walk semi-upright. I could hardly get out of bed each morning without crumpling to the floor.
Then In the fall of 2007 I was invited to paddle bow position in a voyageur canoe on the 440 mile Yukon River Quest for the next 2008 season, but even though I had already been racing for 10 years up to that date, Yukon team training had to begin immediately with continued exercises throughout the winter.
So I made an appointment with a physical therapist. I got a young 20-something, "Buffy" was her name, raising eyebrows with anyone I told (wife). Buffy gave me some floor exercises to do and told me that paddling would be ok if it did not further aggravate (hurt) my back. So that's what I did. I bought a Wenonah Super Seat backrest for paddling the YRQ, but did not need to rely upon it to any great extent. With that the back pain disappeared and till this day has not returned. Since then I have paddled numerous canoe races, including twice on the YRQ, and twice on the Yukon 1000 mile. I am scheduled to paddle the YRQ again just 2 months from now. I attribute my apparent back pain so far permanent relief to proper canoe training technique and training of my back muscles.
In general, racing canoers sit, not kneel. Though I can see the possible advantages to back posture. As a bow paddler I don't think I could effectively race while kneeling for 1000 miles in the bow of a canoe.
Then In the fall of 2007 I was invited to paddle bow position in a voyageur canoe on the 440 mile Yukon River Quest for the next 2008 season, but even though I had already been racing for 10 years up to that date, Yukon team training had to begin immediately with continued exercises throughout the winter.
So I made an appointment with a physical therapist. I got a young 20-something, "Buffy" was her name, raising eyebrows with anyone I told (wife). Buffy gave me some floor exercises to do and told me that paddling would be ok if it did not further aggravate (hurt) my back. So that's what I did. I bought a Wenonah Super Seat backrest for paddling the YRQ, but did not need to rely upon it to any great extent. With that the back pain disappeared and till this day has not returned. Since then I have paddled numerous canoe races, including twice on the YRQ, and twice on the Yukon 1000 mile. I am scheduled to paddle the YRQ again just 2 months from now. I attribute my apparent back pain so far permanent relief to proper canoe training technique and training of my back muscles.
In general, racing canoers sit, not kneel. Though I can see the possible advantages to back posture. As a bow paddler I don't think I could effectively race while kneeling for 1000 miles in the bow of a canoe.
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I will 'officially' be old this fall, have arthritis in my feet, hands and cervical and lumbar regions, deteriorating discs, sciatica, calcium deposits in my knees and I'm 35+ lbs too fat. (if ida knowd I wuz gonna live 'dis long ida took better care of meself) If I paddled kneeing for an hour, you would need a crane to lift me out. Sooo... I sit. Had lower back pain paddling until I got a Sit Backer, end of pain. Did lower the seat to compensate for the extra height. Right now my blue barrel jammed against the thwart is my foot bar. Next canoe will have one already installed. (also keep aspirin handy if paddling more than 10 miles)
The Nate Stick.
I know I get a lot of eye rolling on this, but for me it works.
Do a site search for the "Nate stick"
Just tonite I floated the river, for an hour, and wished I'd had it !
By the way Fuzzy ! Welcome to the site ! Enjoy ! There are a lot of good folks here !
Jim
I know I get a lot of eye rolling on this, but for me it works.
Do a site search for the "Nate stick"
Just tonite I floated the river, for an hour, and wished I'd had it !
By the way Fuzzy ! Welcome to the site ! Enjoy ! There are a lot of good folks here !
Jim
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See and I could not tolerate for five minutes a flat seat like Jims( front to back flat not talking about the curve).. My back would howl! I have to cant mine seated or kneeling! Yet for some strange reason the tractor seat in the Monarch is super comfy.. The tractor seat in the Wenonah not so much at all.
I have enough seats for my RapidFire ( they are drop in ) that I know that small changes in seat angle can make a huge difference. Its a matter of finding them and measuring them. Minicell sometimes is handy !
I have enough seats for my RapidFire ( they are drop in ) that I know that small changes in seat angle can make a huge difference. Its a matter of finding them and measuring them. Minicell sometimes is handy !
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One thing that I find out over the years, is everyone back pain symptoms are different from one an other even with the same back problems! I have friends that have exactly the same issus that I have but can road bike no problem, but can't ski and some can swim and the can't... Back problems are a pain in the neck... lol
Just for the record, my seats are are tilted forward. The leading edge is down 1/2", maybe a little more. That pic is deceiving !
Jim
I also have all 3 levels of the original molded stacked seats for my Rapidfire. But I had Joe remove the base seat and install his railed racing seat. it is tilted down in front by 15 degrees. It works great for me. Other canoes I have been in that have adjustable seats mostly have seats mounted with the front edge lower than the back. I have had trouble with others that have the front edge too high resulting in back issues and severe leg pain. One such friend's canoe, dubbed "seats from heck", I will never race in again.
Pics are worth a thousand words.. maybe not! Its funny how the same thing looks different in a different color too.
Just found out this evening after Doc appointment and X-Rays I have degenerative disks and arthritis in my lower back from breaking L1 a few years back. Hmm, explains a lot of the back pain in the last few years. Taking the Rob Roy out with the new back band is good, no pain. Now I have to see how paddling my canoes goes, have had problems in the past couple of years.
Wishing you the best with Satans boat
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I als have a degenerative disk S1 L5.... And the 2 above in rough shape too.... I heard that it is life after 40, every one have it to a certain degree!!
I can sympathize with you guys! as some of you know, I've been dealing with some nasty back problems since an injury a couple of years ago, well it's official, my paddling days are over! I've got 2 ruptured discs (L4,5) one bulging (s1), 1 wedge fracture (L5), and nerve damage (L5L, S1L), resulting in muscle wasting and partial paralysis in my left leg. A month ago I had a last- ditch procedure to at least lessen the pain, if not regain some function- A nerve ablation. the surgeon went in and severed the nerves on 5 different facet joints, unfortunately the tests yesterday proved little to no improvement, so that's it- I'm permanently disabled 
But don't get your hopes up yet! there's no gear sale coming up- I bought a 4 stroke 2hp from a fellow paddler, and using a side mount, I can still get on the water! I see some lake trips in my future
But don't get your hopes up yet! there's no gear sale coming up- I bought a 4 stroke 2hp from a fellow paddler, and using a side mount, I can still get on the water! I see some lake trips in my future
G
Guest
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Like many who have responded I have had back problems for many years, and in later life a blown L2/L3 coupled with arthritis. Everyone’s back problems are aggravated by different postures, and take some experimentation to resolve. For me kneeling is worse than sitting.
Things that helped alleviate any paddling back pain, and add some boat control, to a seated position:
1)A seat canted slightly forward seems to take a lot of strain off my lower back, but only when coupled with 2 and 3.
2) A foot brace (or pedals), for oppositional force, paddle pulling forward, feet pushing back. But only when coupled with #3.
3) A back band. For me, #’s 1 and 2 without a back band are still near instant agony. The Surf to Summit Performance Pro is far and away my favorite back band.
https://www.surftosummit.com/perfor...ath=283_271&osCsid=2ankmsma9eaqean3a7es7quaq0
Easy to install. Easy to adjust to a comfort sweet spot. Easy to transfer from boat to boat. Low enough and flexible enough to not interfere with torso rotation. YMMV, but high or rigid “seat backs” were worse than nothing at all.
Minor #’s 4 and 5, visible in those photos:
4) Some padding on the seat. Mostly for arse comfort, but it also helps soften the front edge of the seat under my thighs. That is an old Grade VI pad on the bucket seat, but I usually just glue some RidgeRest foam on bucket seat pans, so it is always there and I can’t forget to bring it.
On bench seats, even contoured benches, I really like a ThermaRest “Trail seat”, aka stadium seat pad. This thing in a 20 year old iteration (they have proven very durable as canoe seat pads):
https://www.thermarest.com/catalog/product/view/id/16715/s/trail-seat/category/17/
Held secure under a couple lateral strips of webbing I can tuck the front edge under the seat frame and the pad doesn’t shift or move* (or blow away in the wind). I start with that pad mostly deflated, so my derriere has good contact with the seat. In that mostly deflated guise it cups my butt cheeks like a bucket seat and I can still reach back, open the nozzle and let a little air out once or twice to change the pressure points during a long day on the seat. I’ll let a little air back in when it’s time for a leg stretcher and start the deflation cycle again.
*Note from wet experiences: Any seat pad or seat back that can suddenly slide out of position, especially sideways, can be an invitation to swim.
5) “Knee bumpers” on the gunwale edge. I can use my knees to help lock my body in place when needed without leaving painful gunwale indentations in my LCL.
OK, 6 and 7. I use padding on the foot brace and under my heels. I’m a comfort wuss, and not just for my back. Padding those areas helps when I am paddling barefoot or in thin soled shoes.
That arrangement is the Barcalounger of canoe seating. If I am going to spend long portions of the day in the canoe it might as well be the most comfortable seat in the house.
I doubt the seat pad, glued in minicel knee bumpers and foot brace/heel pads weight more than a few ounces; a very small price to pay for day long comfort and better boat control while seated.
Things that helped alleviate any paddling back pain, and add some boat control, to a seated position:
1)A seat canted slightly forward seems to take a lot of strain off my lower back, but only when coupled with 2 and 3.
2) A foot brace (or pedals), for oppositional force, paddle pulling forward, feet pushing back. But only when coupled with #3.
3) A back band. For me, #’s 1 and 2 without a back band are still near instant agony. The Surf to Summit Performance Pro is far and away my favorite back band.
https://www.surftosummit.com/perfor...ath=283_271&osCsid=2ankmsma9eaqean3a7es7quaq0
Easy to install. Easy to adjust to a comfort sweet spot. Easy to transfer from boat to boat. Low enough and flexible enough to not interfere with torso rotation. YMMV, but high or rigid “seat backs” were worse than nothing at all.
Minor #’s 4 and 5, visible in those photos:
4) Some padding on the seat. Mostly for arse comfort, but it also helps soften the front edge of the seat under my thighs. That is an old Grade VI pad on the bucket seat, but I usually just glue some RidgeRest foam on bucket seat pans, so it is always there and I can’t forget to bring it.
On bench seats, even contoured benches, I really like a ThermaRest “Trail seat”, aka stadium seat pad. This thing in a 20 year old iteration (they have proven very durable as canoe seat pads):
https://www.thermarest.com/catalog/product/view/id/16715/s/trail-seat/category/17/
Held secure under a couple lateral strips of webbing I can tuck the front edge under the seat frame and the pad doesn’t shift or move* (or blow away in the wind). I start with that pad mostly deflated, so my derriere has good contact with the seat. In that mostly deflated guise it cups my butt cheeks like a bucket seat and I can still reach back, open the nozzle and let a little air out once or twice to change the pressure points during a long day on the seat. I’ll let a little air back in when it’s time for a leg stretcher and start the deflation cycle again.
*Note from wet experiences: Any seat pad or seat back that can suddenly slide out of position, especially sideways, can be an invitation to swim.
5) “Knee bumpers” on the gunwale edge. I can use my knees to help lock my body in place when needed without leaving painful gunwale indentations in my LCL.
OK, 6 and 7. I use padding on the foot brace and under my heels. I’m a comfort wuss, and not just for my back. Padding those areas helps when I am paddling barefoot or in thin soled shoes.
That arrangement is the Barcalounger of canoe seating. If I am going to spend long portions of the day in the canoe it might as well be the most comfortable seat in the house.
I doubt the seat pad, glued in minicel knee bumpers and foot brace/heel pads weight more than a few ounces; a very small price to pay for day long comfort and better boat control while seated.
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I've had some lower back issues for years. The position that feels best for me is standing with a pole. In fact, my back feels best overall when I keep up a steady schedule of weekly upstream poling trips.
Kneeling is second best. But, of course, iit's the only way to go in my solo canoes.
Kneeling is second best. But, of course, iit's the only way to go in my solo canoes.
S1 and s2 for me! All before I was 35. Physical therapy, and when ever I have to lift ANYTHING I flex my ab muscles, my physical therapist gave me that tip. It seems to lock everything in place back there. No pain since (relatively speaking) and I lost 20lbs.. You're talking to a guy who had a walker positioned over the can so he could get up after the morning constitutional. All that said, the gsi sitbacker and something to brace my feet against kept me paddling through the injury. Oh, and mentally "flex" your core muscles as if you were doing a crunch on your forward stroke and keep your hands "inside the box" as per paddling techniques so you don't make any wonky moves that may aggravate your injury
Jason
Jason
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I was forced to do core exercises to address sciatica and eventually the exercises helped a lot and for sure helped make my lower back more robust. Another thing you could try is one of the Copper lower back wraps; they provide a lot of lower back support and only cost $20. Finally - you could try a paddle with a smaller blade so the forces you put into the water (and the reaction forces on your lower back) are smaller...or just try paddling more gently and smoothly with your current paddle.
