- Joined
- Aug 10, 2018
- Messages
- 1,734
- Reaction score
- 2,612
Excellent combo
-
Happy World Snake Day! 🐍⛎𓆗
Gel Coat or Epoxy for Repair?
- Thread starter GladMax
- Start date
Been a bit, have fires needing held back and have another canoe to use. If it were the fishing canoe that were down this repair'd happen'd sooner, but as is I can use fishing canoe for sport but not sport canoe for fishing. I'll document what I'm doing for sake of later lurkers, and if there's time to stop me before I screw up on this holiday weekend: please jump in.
I got a fracture repair kit, a scratch repair kit, and a stem bumper kit from Northstar. Doing it essentially all at once.
Fracture repair kit says sand a scoop into laminate 1in around fracture, then roughen 3in around that. If fracture is below waterline the boat needs three layers of 'glass, above water line only needs two, each successive layer is 2in bigger than one underneath.
I found a few other pale spots in interior that don't show broken weave, I decided to put a single layer on each of those.
I taped off the areas I intended to sand. Were targets to aim for with paper in hand, showed true borders if sanding obscured specific location of actual injury, and also provides a pattern for the 'glass.
I got a fracture repair kit, a scratch repair kit, and a stem bumper kit from Northstar. Doing it essentially all at once.
Fracture repair kit says sand a scoop into laminate 1in around fracture, then roughen 3in around that. If fracture is below waterline the boat needs three layers of 'glass, above water line only needs two, each successive layer is 2in bigger than one underneath.
I found a few other pale spots in interior that don't show broken weave, I decided to put a single layer on each of those.
I taped off the areas I intended to sand. Were targets to aim for with paper in hand, showed true borders if sanding obscured specific location of actual injury, and also provides a pattern for the 'glass.
'Course, for you to stop me from doing something I shouldn't, it helps if I post my plans long before doing them. Northstar recommended sanding the repair areas with 80grit, and the whole hull with 150g to prep for the scratch repair. I didn't like the idea of 150, but the only discs I had for my orbital were 400 and 120.
I wondered 'how in heck do Cedar Strippers get so glossy? Seems like all the books just say 'sand'.' I looked them up. Yep. Sand, then varnish. And sand with 80.
I won't varnish, but maybe I'll sand with 400.
This is 120.
I wondered 'how in heck do Cedar Strippers get so glossy? Seems like all the books just say 'sand'.' I looked them up. Yep. Sand, then varnish. And sand with 80.
I won't varnish, but maybe I'll sand with 400.
This is 120.
Repairs sure aren't invisible. But, as one poster said on this forum: "Once a beater, always a beater." I may have fallen in love with it's 10yrs of near pristinity and use as a delicate precision craft, but I got this canoe to be a beater. To know more about canoeing with, and turns out that includes repairs.
Patches on inside. I didn't use PeelPly, maybe probably should have, but I went shade tree and used plastic wrap. Maybe should have used wax paper for shade tree, because plastic wrap left worse wrinkles than an after-sanding later brush over with plain vinylester. It's smooth there now, smoother than rest of hull interior. Northstar went light on filling the weave: the stock surface is pebbled. I might sand down the patches again to take the gloss away, then I'd probably sand down the whole interior to take the gleam away. Or I might leave it as a reminder this is a 10yr old beater, and one I'd rather not crack again and have clog up my shop for a month. A little humility reminder about not going places I'm not sure I can get thru safely.
Patches on inside. I didn't use PeelPly, maybe probably should have, but I went shade tree and used plastic wrap. Maybe should have used wax paper for shade tree, because plastic wrap left worse wrinkles than an after-sanding later brush over with plain vinylester. It's smooth there now, smoother than rest of hull interior. Northstar went light on filling the weave: the stock surface is pebbled. I might sand down the patches again to take the gloss away, then I'd probably sand down the whole interior to take the gleam away. Or I might leave it as a reminder this is a 10yr old beater, and one I'd rather not crack again and have clog up my shop for a month. A little humility reminder about not going places I'm not sure I can get thru safely.
Last edited:
Exterior is two layers of vinylester.
Oh, one thing I forgot to mention on interior. Vinylester cures quicker in a can than spread out in a pan, just like epoxy. I didn't get all seven patches filled in by time can went solid. The big, main injury got clumpy application.
Also, vinylester is much harder to mix at 50:1, than epoxy is at 1:1 or 2:1. The second coat is not fully cured after 24hrs, its still vaguely sticky and a cardboard left a mark in 15min of this light canoe resting on sawhorses. I was hoping to use this boat tomorrow, I still might but it won't have been sanded with 400 by then.
First layer worked well, but the 3/8in roller in the Northstar kit left some significant stucco texture. For second coat I used Lowe's highest quality 1/4in roller, and it's much smoother tho still pebbled.
Oh, one thing I forgot to mention on interior. Vinylester cures quicker in a can than spread out in a pan, just like epoxy. I didn't get all seven patches filled in by time can went solid. The big, main injury got clumpy application.
Also, vinylester is much harder to mix at 50:1, than epoxy is at 1:1 or 2:1. The second coat is not fully cured after 24hrs, its still vaguely sticky and a cardboard left a mark in 15min of this light canoe resting on sawhorses. I was hoping to use this boat tomorrow, I still might but it won't have been sanded with 400 by then.
First layer worked well, but the 3/8in roller in the Northstar kit left some significant stucco texture. For second coat I used Lowe's highest quality 1/4in roller, and it's much smoother tho still pebbled.
Main break is repaired. That area of hull is stiffer than surrounding now, instead of collapsing in a crease as it did after the accident. But weave is still poking out in 1-2 hairs.
I did not cut/shave/off the protruding fibers before attempting to paint in the vinylester because they were very small. And very flexible. Perhaps I could have tried a face/leg/armpit razor, but I did not think it'd work. I merely painted on the resin mix, and after first coat cured I used a scraper tool to take off the hardened sticks. I thought I did a good job. But after the second coat there are still two sections of the break, about 1/4in long, that have a sharp knife-edgy ridge. I can't really shave them down and re-repair, because I am out of vinylester.
Oh, one thing I forgot to mention on entire exterior. Two layers of vinylester as mentioned. Before first I sanded with 120g as mentioned, between coats I sanded with 220.
I wish I'd weighed the boat before repair. It sure does feel heavier now. Might just be weakness due to discouragement things didn't come out better than they did, because I can't imagine this 17lb canoe went over 19 after this work, and I can't imagine my biceps can notice a 5-10% change from a month ago. Why I worry I do not know, as said it was bought to be a beater, a loaner, a small creek poker. And I have a brand new Northstar ADK with wood gunnels to pick up as soon as I have time for a six hour drive. But I grew up in Maine, where boats are the religion. Others obviously feel differently, but I feel how well I take care of what I have reflects how grateful I am for the opportunity to have them.
I did not cut/shave/off the protruding fibers before attempting to paint in the vinylester because they were very small. And very flexible. Perhaps I could have tried a face/leg/armpit razor, but I did not think it'd work. I merely painted on the resin mix, and after first coat cured I used a scraper tool to take off the hardened sticks. I thought I did a good job. But after the second coat there are still two sections of the break, about 1/4in long, that have a sharp knife-edgy ridge. I can't really shave them down and re-repair, because I am out of vinylester.
Oh, one thing I forgot to mention on entire exterior. Two layers of vinylester as mentioned. Before first I sanded with 120g as mentioned, between coats I sanded with 220.
I wish I'd weighed the boat before repair. It sure does feel heavier now. Might just be weakness due to discouragement things didn't come out better than they did, because I can't imagine this 17lb canoe went over 19 after this work, and I can't imagine my biceps can notice a 5-10% change from a month ago. Why I worry I do not know, as said it was bought to be a beater, a loaner, a small creek poker. And I have a brand new Northstar ADK with wood gunnels to pick up as soon as I have time for a six hour drive. But I grew up in Maine, where boats are the religion. Others obviously feel differently, but I feel how well I take care of what I have reflects how grateful I am for the opportunity to have them.
Last edited:
Looks good, Max! Thanks for taking time to document your repairs with informative words and pictures. They will help both current and future composite canoeists to take on such repair projects, which is one of the purposes and strengths of this site.
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2018
- Messages
- 1,734
- Reaction score
- 2,612
Looks like a solid repair to me... nothin' wrong with any of it.
One note on the interior texture: Northstar might have gone light on filling the weave to give better traction. I think most stripper builders only do a wet-out coat on the inside for that reason and avoid fill coats completely (I know for sure that I do).
One note on the interior texture: Northstar might have gone light on filling the weave to give better traction. I think most stripper builders only do a wet-out coat on the inside for that reason and avoid fill coats completely (I know for sure that I do).
Thanks folks and you're welcome. Yup. This forum and others got me where I am.
Traction makes a lot of common sense. Yup. This forum is getting me lots further than I was.
Traction makes a lot of common sense. Yup. This forum is getting me lots further than I was.
Awesome job, looks good!. You did a much better job than I did with mine. Bought an outfitters NW17, it was recoated down to the gunwales but a very uneven coat throughout. I remember the hull was just built up with vinyl ester in most areas, and it would flake off in the thinner areas. I ended up doing the best I could, replacing all the decals and selling it to a guy a few counties over.
Bet you can’t wait to get it in the water. A couple extra pounds isn’t that bad, I think you’re sitting pretty good
Bet you can’t wait to get it in the water. A couple extra pounds isn’t that bad, I think you’re sitting pretty good
Yes, thanks @GladMax for posting your repair process. I'm about to do one very similar (on more of a beater), and this helps me feel better about it.
On texture...
One of the things I like about my kevlar tandems is that the weave on the inside has not been filled in, so my feet don't slip easy like they do when standing in a royalex boat. But I assume that the main reason for not having it filled smooth is weight saving.
On texture...
One of the things I like about my kevlar tandems is that the weave on the inside has not been filled in, so my feet don't slip easy like they do when standing in a royalex boat. But I assume that the main reason for not having it filled smooth is weight saving.
I'm not an utter weight weenie, 2lb is not much (tho 10% is), it's that I alone am at this boat's advertised cargo capacity. Add a pack of snacks and water, and we're over! A 25lb BoyScoutPrepared pack, and we're way over! A tackle box and cooler, net and pole...
Absolutely I can't wait to get this back in. I think I am going to take it fishing tomorrow. 2in of freeboard in a round bottomed canoe... I don't usually hope to not hook lunkers...
Weight savings, traction, whatever. I like it. We can add visual appeal.
I sanded with 400, orbital at first then evened it out by hand. Looks good. Dulled, but not whitened like 220 did. There's still a bit of pebble to the surface texture, this forum says that's faster. I could do 303, this forum says it washes off. I could do wax, thats more weight in all the pebblegaps. I do miss the gloss, but it's not a horrid loss. Leery fish notice shiny things, best if the only shiny thing around is my lure.
Not that I usually fish from this boat. But I do like to look at them.
Absolutely I can't wait to get this back in. I think I am going to take it fishing tomorrow. 2in of freeboard in a round bottomed canoe... I don't usually hope to not hook lunkers...
Weight savings, traction, whatever. I like it. We can add visual appeal.
I sanded with 400, orbital at first then evened it out by hand. Looks good. Dulled, but not whitened like 220 did. There's still a bit of pebble to the surface texture, this forum says that's faster. I could do 303, this forum says it washes off. I could do wax, thats more weight in all the pebblegaps. I do miss the gloss, but it's not a horrid loss. Leery fish notice shiny things, best if the only shiny thing around is my lure.
Not that I usually fish from this boat. But I do like to look at them.
Steve, SystemThree has 1/4in knap foam rollers for epoxy spreading. They'll do a thinner smoother lay.
Tape off the entire gunnel. Resin will drip to lowest point. (and you might start from 'top' and layer towards hull)
Tape off the entire gunnel. Resin will drip to lowest point. (and you might start from 'top' and layer towards hull)
Here's a pic which shows level of lack of gloss, degree of pebble, and toughness of aftermarket (manufacturer provided, user applied) vinylester. As harsh a scratch as the worst pre-repair (other than primary complaint), happened as I shoved off.
When I added my weight the boat of course settled, and I kinda felt a bit of a resistance which tightened my neck muscles, tho only because of the fresh repair. I didn't actually think anything was happening. I'm not sure I noticed the big one happen as I pushed of from bank or not.
It did not take much to big-digger the new coat.
The finish is not full flat. Maybe a matte. In the shadows it looks about normal, in the shines you can see the dull. And the orange peel.
Its not horrid, but it's not new.
I'm happy enough with how it came out. Only because I have revised my opinion of how perfect this boat should look.
And I think I prefer fishing from this round bottomed boat over the flat Royalex. I had a little over three inches of freeboard, plenty for a 17ac TN reservoir protected by steep TN hills. I prefer the responsiveness of this canoe: its liveliness keeps me paying full attention to my whole body and the world around as I cast, retrieve, fight and net a fish (I hunt for crappie with an UltraLight rig: big bass tend to ignore my puny offerings). It's faster, straighter, and more precise a paddler. It is a lot louder to stow said paddle. But a lot lighter to pack the 250yard trail to the pond. I think I'll redefine that touchiness to paddle impact as extra finesse required for the hunt, as I delicately sneak up on the schools.
Thanks Erk, for prodding me to recognize the depth of my desire to get this boat in water sooner than the river rises to an acceptable level (this winter). You took my fishing involvement to new heights.
When I added my weight the boat of course settled, and I kinda felt a bit of a resistance which tightened my neck muscles, tho only because of the fresh repair. I didn't actually think anything was happening. I'm not sure I noticed the big one happen as I pushed of from bank or not.
It did not take much to big-digger the new coat.
The finish is not full flat. Maybe a matte. In the shadows it looks about normal, in the shines you can see the dull. And the orange peel.
Its not horrid, but it's not new.
I'm happy enough with how it came out. Only because I have revised my opinion of how perfect this boat should look.
And I think I prefer fishing from this round bottomed boat over the flat Royalex. I had a little over three inches of freeboard, plenty for a 17ac TN reservoir protected by steep TN hills. I prefer the responsiveness of this canoe: its liveliness keeps me paying full attention to my whole body and the world around as I cast, retrieve, fight and net a fish (I hunt for crappie with an UltraLight rig: big bass tend to ignore my puny offerings). It's faster, straighter, and more precise a paddler. It is a lot louder to stow said paddle. But a lot lighter to pack the 250yard trail to the pond. I think I'll redefine that touchiness to paddle impact as extra finesse required for the hunt, as I delicately sneak up on the schools.
Thanks Erk, for prodding me to recognize the depth of my desire to get this boat in water sooner than the river rises to an acceptable level (this winter). You took my fishing involvement to new heights.
Last edited:
I've noticed that regardless of the brand, all epoxy, vinylester, and polyester resins remain somewhat softer than the original finish for up to about 1-2 months (polyester seems to want to remain soft for up to a year) I suspect that while they harden in very little time, a full cure of the substrate takes longer due to the waxes and solvents continuing to migrate to the surface, and the thicker the repair, the longer it takes. I've taken the added step on fresh repairs to cover them with duck tape for the first couple of trips just as an added "wear" layer, especially in high wear areas, and removed the tape after the trip to continue curing.
West system 105 states full working strength of 1-4 days, but does not state how long to a full (no offgassing) stage, I know you can still smell the fumes for several days after that point
West system 105 states full working strength of 1-4 days, but does not state how long to a full (no offgassing) stage, I know you can still smell the fumes for several days after that point
