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Esquif Echo

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I just finished a four day trip (packed for five) paddling the Esquif Echo around the Debsconeag Loop just south of Mt Katahdin here in Maine. If you know this canoe route, then you know it includes some very large lakes known for wind and a section of the Penobscot River that includes class II rapids with class IV options if you dare. It was, you might say, a good test of this neat little boat.

The stats for the Echo, from the Esquif website:
  • Construction : T-Formex
  • Length : 4.27 m (14′ )
  • Width : 80.9 / 75.2 cm (31 7/8 – 29 5/8″)
  • Depth : 29.2 cm (11.5″)
  • Shape : Shallow Arch
  • Rocker : 4.4 cm (1.75″) bow and stern
  • Gunwale : Wood
  • Colour : Green, Tan
  • Weight : 20.5 kg (45 lbs)
  • Seats : Webbed
I have read many comments (but no real reviews) in which paddlers have said the boat had poor primary stability, that it was too short, had too little depth for big water and rapids, and that it only has enough capacity for an overnight. I am here to say this was not my experience.

I set off from Spencer Cove in quiet water loaded with 70 pounds of gear and food plus my 210 pound self. With 280 pounds, the boat still felt agile and didn't feel near maxed out. My guess is that I could easily have carried 325 pounds and still enjoyed the paddling. I firmly believe it could have packed for 10 days without pushing the limits of this boat.

I have read comments that the boat is too wide for a solo. That's true if you want to paddle Minnesota style. I paddled this Canadian style, keeled over. Paddled this way, it wasn't as fast as my Nova Craft PAL but it was fast enough. It was also incredibly stable, in fact more stable the more it was keeled over. I will say this, though. You will be frustrated by this boat if you don't have good form when it comes to correction strokes. However, for the competent paddler, this boat is easy to keep on track.

As I came around the first islands in Spencer Cove, I was greeted with a headwind and large swells and scattered white caps from the 3.5 mile catch on Ambajejus Lake. I hesitate to assess how big the swells are -- they always look bigger when you're in them than they look from shore. I will say it was the second largest water I've paddled in this year. And I felt completely confident in the boat, despite its 11.5" center depth.

This trip requires four portages (unless you want to paddle class III-IV), including a two mile section that will accommodate wheels, a .3 mile carry with hills, a 1 mile carry on a rocky section and a short jaunt across a mid-river island to bypass those big rapids. I doubled each portage. I will say the Echo seems to weigh a bit more than the listed 45 pounds and seems heavier than my 52 pound PAL. But as a semi-fat old guy, I never felt overly strained by the load. That may be because I carried it after carrying a 60 pound pack with 10 pounds in my hands. Still, it seemed a reasonable weight.

After Amabejejus, the water was unusually calm until I approach the first set of rapids on the Penobscot River. This was class II water with clear lines but also with several ledge drop offs, and the Echo, while not running as dry as a Prospecteur, was buoyant, stable and predictable. In fact, I purchased the boat just for this trip, knowing that I wanted something that could transition from lakes to rivers gracefully. I misjudged one drop off and glided over a rock -- my first scratch! No worries, though. Later, when I turned the boat over, I saw that the T-formex material had endured quite nicely, with a shallow scratch where I expected something deep and nasty.

I believe the Echo is a boat to be taken seriously, especially for anyone who travels mixed routes and even lake routes with rocky landings. Is it the right boat for a wilderness trip on some far north river? No. But on every body of water short of that, it will carry everything you need for an overnight up to a 10 day trip. It will handle class II water with a load and it will look good (very good) doing it. I have nothing but good things to say about the Echo.IMG_0032.jpg
 
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I test paddled the Echo and really liked it. Not surprised by your review. My only reason for not buying it was weight. Maybe a mistake but I wanted something in the 30 pound range.

Yak paddle?

Great report and review! Thanks.
 
I test paddled the Echo and really liked it. Not surprised by your review. My only reason for not buying it was weight. Maybe a mistake but I wanted something in the 30 pound range.

Yak paddle?

Great report and review! Thanks.
Well, that's comforting. I got my Echo last spring and hoped to use it on a canoe trip in 2022, but I ended up paddling tandem on the two trips I was able to do.
I've, actually, only had it on the water a few times. I've paddled it with both single and double bladed paddles. It's a bit wide, but I like a stable canoe, and I have long arms, so it's something I'm willing to live with. Overall, I really like the way it handles. I let an ACA certified canoe instructor paddle it and she seemed pretty impressed. It feels fairly stable empty, so I would imagine it's plenty stable loaded with gear. The freeboard does concern me. I did a section of the Colorado, in Sept, that had one class II section with some pretty decent sized waves, and I got a little water in my tandem. After that, I was thinking it was a good thing I hadn't been paddling the Echo, but maybe it would have done fine. I need to give it a better test before I commit to taking it on a trip with rapids.
 
It's definitely a good looking boat. Usually a "playful" boat is more seaworthy than its raw specs would suggest, whereas a dumb flat bottom boat takes every wave on the chin.

Most solos have a thwart not far behind the seat, sometimes too close, but Esquif seemed to put them well away from center. Anyone know why? How did you lay out your tripping load?

I love that Debsconeag loop. The nice thing about leaving from Spencer Cove is you don't have to drive that nasty road to Omaha Beach.
 
It's definitely a good looking boat. Usually a "playful" boat is more seaworthy than its raw specs would suggest, whereas a dumb flat bottom boat takes every wave on the chin.

Most solos have a thwart not far behind the seat, sometimes too close, but Esquif seemed to put them well away from center. Anyone know why? How did you lay out your tripping load?

I love that Debsconeag loop. The nice thing about leaving from Spencer Cove is you don't have to drive that nasty road to Omaha Beach.
I believe Esquif calls the Echo shallow arch, not flat. I would put it somewhere in between shallow and flat. Another boat I had been looking at is the Old Town Next canoe. Now that boat is flat bottom.
The thing about thwarts is you can always move them or add new ones. It's the middle of the night or I'd go take a look at my Echo and see what I think about the rear thwart.
 
I believe Esquif calls the Echo shallow arch, not flat. I would put it somewhere in between shallow and flat. Another boat I had been looking at is the Old Town Next canoe. Now that boat is flat bottom.
The thing about thwarts is you can always move them or add new ones. It's the middle of the night or I'd go take a look at my Echo and see what I think about the rear thwart.
With T-formex, the arch is somewhat dependent on whether you are sitting or kneeling. When sitting, the seat transfers the weight to the sides and the bottom is flattened against the water. When kneeling the full arch is maintained because all the pressure is on the bottom. That matters in white water. On flat water, keeling it over will always produce a roundish bottom, it seems to me.
 
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With T-formex, the arch is somewhat dependent on whether you are sitting or kneeling. When sitting, the seat transfers the weight to the sides and the bottom is flattened against the water. When kneeling the full arch is maintained because all the pressure is on the bottom. That matters in white water. On flat water, keeling it over will always produce a roundish bottom, it seems to me.
Loaded or unloaded matters too.
The bottom of the Echo seems fairly stiff. I was in a canoe class last spring and you could watch the bottom of one of the other canoes moving up and down with every wave. It was crazy. Can't remember what kind of canoe it was. Obviously a single layer plastic of some sort.
 
Hi Art.
This boat intrigues me. I'm looking for a river traveller that can handle multi day tripping with light equipment on rocky rivers with up to easy class III whitewater and sometimes up to 15 miles of flat water in between the steeper sections. With the Echo, a spray deck is probably a good accessory in whitewater because of the low freeboard.

I've used NC prospector 15 (sp3) and Esquif Prospecteur 15 (T formex) in these conditions and they do very well in rapids where they become loose and playful. They are sluggish on the flat water sections though, especially in a bit of wind. Have you tried these boats and can you compare them to the Echo. On flat water and on lower grade white water? Is the Echo a fun boat in whitewater?

"it wasn't as fast as my Nova Craft PAL but it was fast enough."
I have never tried a PAL. It should be a faster boat than a Prospecteur 15 as well because of the PALs' length, shape and lower rocker. What's your take? How would the Echo do against a Prospecteur 15 you think?

"I will say this, though. You will be frustrated by this boat if you don't have good form when it comes to correction strokes. However, for the competent paddler, this boat is easy to keep on track."
This is a bit of surprise considering the short length of the boat and low-ish volume. Sounds like it is pretty responsive though.

"Echo seems to weigh a bit more than the listed 45 pounds and seems heavier than my 52 pound PAL"
This is something others have pointed out as well. But did it really feel heavier than your 52# boat? That is quite a bit more than the listed 45#... Have you weighed it since and know what the true weight is?

That Echo is a very good looking boat!
 

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Hi Art.
This boat intrigues me. I'm looking for a river traveller that can handle multi day tripping with light equipment on rocky rivers with up to easy class III whitewater and sometimes up to 15 miles of flat water in between the steeper sections. With the Echo, a spray deck is probably a good accessory in whitewater because of the low freeboard.

I've used NC prospector 15 (sp3) and Esquif Prospecteur 15 (T formex) in these conditions and they do very well in rapids where they become loose and playful. They are sluggish on the flat water sections though, especially in a bit of wind. Have you tried these boats and can you compare them to the Echo. On flat water and on lower grade white water? Is the Echo a fun boat in whitewater?


I have never tried a PAL. It should be a faster boat than a Prospecteur 15 as well because of the PALs' length, shape and lower rocker. What's your take? How would the Echo do against a Prospecteur 15 you think?


This is a bit of surprise considering the short length of the boat and low-ish volume. Sounds like it is pretty responsive though.


This is something others have pointed out as well. But did it really feel heavier than your 52# boat? That is quite a bit more than the listed 45#... Have you weighed it since and know what the true weight is?


That Echo is a very good looking boat!
I wouldn't recommend it for Class III and neither would Esquif. I haven't tried the other boats you mention so don't have any insights to share. As for weight, I'm sharing my impression and I tend towards hyperbole. Overall, I really like the Echo and think of it as a very capable canoe -- just not for Class III.
 
I wouldn't recommend it for Class III and neither would Esquif. I haven't tried the other boats you mention so don't have any insights to share. As for weight, I'm sharing my impression and I tend towards hyperbole. Overall, I really like the Echo and think of it as a very capable canoe -- just not for Class III.
I'm not sure I'd even recommend it for class II without a spaycover. I have a class II trip coming up, in the fall, and I've been debating on whether to use my Echo.
Maybe I mentioned this before, but I had an ACA certified instructor take mine out for a paddle and she seemed pretty impressed with it.
Not as fast as something like a North Wind, or even a Phoenix, but not too bad. Predictable handling. Good compromise of tracking vs. maneuverability. Reasonable weight. A very good choice for class I+ rivers.
 
I'm not sure I'd even recommend it for class II without a spaycover

A very good choice for class I+ rivers.

I see. Well thanks for clearing that up. It seems like the Echo is a nice boat and good looking but with a somewhat narrow area of use. If it's not good in at least class II white water then the choice of T-formex as hull material doesn't feel quite right. A class I boat could be made much lighter, stiffer and sturdy enough using a composite material.
 
I see. Well thanks for clearing that up. It seems like the Echo is a nice boat and good looking but with a somewhat narrow area of use. If it's not good in at least class II white water then the choice of T-formex as hull material doesn't feel quite right. A class I boat could be made much lighter, stiffer and sturdy enough using a composite material.
The Echo and its former Royalite kin the Mohawk Solo 13 and 14 were good for flatwater FreeStyle and also rivers with some current and gravel bars , such as Ozark rivers. There are several that you can spend a week camping on as they are each over a hundred miles long. The beauty of these boats is of course also is price, as more people can afford them.

Not knowing much about Norway I can't comment on these boats usefulness there but there are plenty of places they are used nearer Esquifs main market area.
 
I see. Well thanks for clearing that up. It seems like the Echo is a nice boat and good looking but with a somewhat narrow area of use. If it's not good in at least class II white water then the choice of T-formex as hull material doesn't feel quite right. A class I boat could be made much lighter, stiffer and sturdy enough using a composite material.
Well, yes and no.
A composite boat is much more expensive, though the Echo isn't cheap for a plastic solo.
In shallow, rocky rivers, T-Formex slides over the rocks better.
There are places I'd use my Echo that I wouldn't use my North Wind for fear of damaging it.
The Echo may turn out to be fine for class II, I just can't say with any certainty.
I took my Mad River Horizon 17 down the same river I'm considering using the Echo on and water came over the sides in one rapid.
A solo behaves differently, in waves. The Echo might ride them well enough to keep water out.
 
Depth : 29.2 cm (11.5″)

We all have different experiences and preferences. Speaking only for myself, I would never take a serious trip on any whitewater or even flat water in a solo canoe with this small a depth, if I had other alternatives. Even totally empty, I wouldn't feel psychologically comfortable with that little freeboard in any sort of waves.

Canoes for class 3 whitewater are 14"-16" (35.5-40.6 cm) in central depth for a reason. And that includes whitewater canoes that are paddled solo without gear on day trips.

That said, a lot depends on mental and physical paddling skills. I've successfully paddled lots of canoes and kayaks I didn't like on waters where they didn't really fit, simply because they were what was available and I had no better alternatives.
 
Canoes for class 3 whitewater are 14"-16" (35.5-40.6 cm) in central depth for a reason. And that includes whitewater canoes that are paddled solo without gear on day trips.

Hi Glenn.
I think I was the one who brought in the idea of travelling in class III water to this discussion. I did say up to easy class III though. So I meant short rapids. I might also add that our system om grading might differ quite a bit. That being said, there are many paddlers that favour smaller boats even in class II-III. The Wildfire is only 12.5" at center depth. Yellowstone Solo is the same. Wenonah Argosy is 13.5"
They will need a good spray deck though.
 
  • Length : 4.27 m (14′ )
  • Width : 80.9 / 75.2 cm (31 7/8 – 29 5/8″)
  • Depth : 29.2 cm (11.5″)

We all have different experiences and preferences. Speaking only for myself, I would never take a serious trip on any whitewater or even flat water in a solo canoe with this small a depth, if I had other alternatives. Even totally empty, I wouldn't feel psychologically comfortable with that little freeboard in any sort of waves.

Canoes for class 3 whitewater are 14"-16" (35.5-40.6 cm) in central depth for a reason. And that includes whitewater canoes that are paddled solo without gear on day trips.

I think I was the one who brought in the idea of travelling in class III water to this discussion. I did say up to easy class III though. So I meant short rapids. I might also add that our system om grading might differ quite a bit. That being said, there are many paddlers that favour smaller boats even in class II-III. The Wildfire is only 12.5" at center depth. Yellowstone Solo is the same. Wenonah Argosy is 13.5"
They will need a good spray deck though.

As I said, we all have different experiences and preferences, and many of us have paddled all sorts of watercraft that we didn't think were optimal for the circumstances due to a lack of better alternatives.

I've never paddled an Echo, but I've seen them and watched others paddle them. I would classify it as a day tripping sort-of-play boat for a lighter person.

I own a Bell black-gold Wildfire and, even as a former class 4 whitewater paddler for 15 years, I wouldn't paddle it in solid class 2 or 3 rapids, especially with a gear load, for the very reason that it has so too little freeboard. Nor do I like it for extended flatwater trips because its turnability and freeboard bog down too much after about 260 pounds of paddler plus gear, and it gets quite slow. To me, it's a day trip canoe and my best freestyle play canoe. In that sense, I'd put it in a similar category as the Echo, but a better all around canoe than the Echo.

I like the Bell Yellowstone in Royalex less than the composite Wildfire but more than the Echo.

The Wenonah Argosy is not my cup of tea at all. It's "top heavy." That is, I don't like its primary or secondary stability profiles.

I like a deep 15' solo canoe for river tripping. My favorite solo canoe by far for efficient combined river (up to class 3) and lake tripping, plus substantial gear capacity, is my Hemlock SRT. Another favorite, which I don't own, would be the Swift Osprey. I'm not current on the Esquif line.

I've never used or felt the need for a canoe cover on any solo canoe.

Again, this is all personal preference and sort of nitpicking. Lots of paddlers like canoes I don't, and vice versa.
 
I like a deep 15' solo canoe for river tripping. My favorite solo canoe by far for efficient combined river (up to class 3) and lake tripping, plus substantial gear capacity, is my Hemlock SRT. Another favorite, which I don't own, would be the Swift Osprey. I'm not current on the Esquif line.

I've never used or felt the need for a canoe cover on any solo canoe.

Again, this is all personal preference and sort of nitpicking. Lots of paddlers like canoes I don't, and vice versa.
Nitpicking when it comes to canoe models and shape might be the best thing about canoeing. That and of course -actually paddling the nitpicked hull.

I hope I'm not making this thread about the Esquif Echo stray too far off course but I think this is very interresting. Comparing models and how they behave might also help to solidify what kind of boat the Echo is, where it's best use lies and what it's limitations are. This is the sort of stuff that can lead us towards new and improved craft right?

The Hemlock SRT might be the best solo river tripper currently in production. There are a few contenders but I'll save that for now.
I'm surprised that you mention the Swift Osprey so close to the Hemlock SRT though. The Osprey is only 12" or 12.25" deep midships.

As you may know I am currently finishing up my strip built Kite (which is the same hull shape as the Osprey below the tumblehome, in case there's anyone reading who didn't know this already). To me it doesn't look like a boat that will do well in a class II or even easy class III white water environment. I hope it will though. I'm not sure how different the strip version is from the boats that Swift made, might be quite a bit. Looks like the bow shape is different at least.
 
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Well, to contribute to the thread drift, the first osprey I built routinely ran class 2 no problem, and got me through some class 3 as well. I wasn't "play boating", I was always on trips and fully loaded, so I would pick a line and do it. I did get trashed a couple of times, but that was all on me, not the canoe. The Osprey also got me through some of the biggest waves I have ever experienced on a lake. Most canoes will get you through class 2 if you have any idea at all what to do. I really like the looks of the Echo, if it were 6 inches longer I think it might be perfect.
 
Well, to contribute to the thread drift, the first osprey I built routinely ran class 2 no problem, and got me through some class 3 as well. I wasn't "play boating", I was always on trips and fully loaded, so I would pick a line and do it. I did get trashed a couple of times, but that was all on me, not the canoe. The Osprey also got me through some of the biggest waves I have ever experienced on a lake. Most canoes will get you through class 2 if you have any idea at all what to do. I really like the looks of the Echo, if it were 6 inches longer I think it might be perfect.
Hi Memaquay.
That is very interresting!

I've never seen the Echo in the flesh but I think you might be right. It could be a little longer. Say 14.6' and the sheer could be pulled up 1.5" perhaps a little bit more in the bow. It would make more sense as a T-Formex hull then. And maybe the midships section could be a tad rounder in the bottom as well.
 
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