Astro Van Canoe Rack Ideas Anyone??

[mwaalen]

The Astro is a MK-3 package which is a conversion as I understand in reading the literature. The visor does look nice but I have taken it off at times being it seems to generate a bit of drag/noise when the wind is just so. Poor gas mileage the way it is with AWD. Yes, curtains in the rear but the skylight-looking thing are mood lights! Weird huh!?! Glad I didn't spend my hard-earned money on this feature. However if it had any sort of real stereo I could imagine cranking a bit of ABBA with the mood lights on would be kinda fun! Will know more tomorrow about the potential racks as I will pull out one section of plastic trim/molding from the channel on the roof.

 

[Guest]

The visor does look nice but I have taken it off at times being it seems to generate a bit of drag/noise when the wind is just so. Poor gas mileage the way it is with AWD. Yes, curtains in the rear but the skylight-looking thing are mood lights!
However if it had any sort of real stereo I could imagine cranking a bit of ABBA with the mood lights on would be kinda fun! Will know more tomorrow about the potential racks as I will pull out one section of plastic trim/molding from the channel on the roof.

I sometimes wish our van was AWD, like when I can’t get it to the top of our snow covered dirt drive.

Roof racks, depending on the rack system and airflow over the windshield, can be noisy. Yakima and Thule sell (pricey) fairings to deflect that air flow. Sometimes they work, and sometimes they make it worse. That moon visor might (or might not) help in that regard.

One of the simplest tricks to break up a harmonic hum of air over the crossbars is to wrap a piece of rope around the bar in a half dozen spirals. Cam straps are notoriously noisy, like a reed in a wind instrument, unless you put a twist in the strap on either side of the hull.

If there are in fact threaded roof rack mounts under that trim you are golden. Or maybe even an (upside down) T slot.

Play that funky music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFrGuyw1V8s

 

[mwaalen]

Finally putting this one to rest. Pulled off the rear passenger section of trim and nothing but a bare, straight/perpendicular walled slot. Trim was attached by double-sided foam tape. Thanks to all of you that have made suggestions and shared frustration. Think I'm going to solve this one with the existing roof racks on the Ford Explorer I inherited last weekend.

Peace

Micah

 

[Guest]

Well crap, what was the design function of that black roof trim? Maybe the trim-filled reveal helped deaden flat rattling roof noise. Some inexpensive poly canoes use just that groovy strategy to stiffen the floppy floor, two or three “tracking channels” molded on the bottom to stiffen things up.

Dammit Chevy, a couple pairs of threads under the trim in that rooftop reveal would have made installing roof rackage a snap. Or at most a few wrench turns.

But, ya know, those four threads would probably have added $2 in factory cost. And required an automotive engineer to think of it before the roof was being stamped out.

It would have cost $11 to prevent Ford Pinto gas tanks from exploding, $11, oh heck no!

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-...ng/did-pintos-really-explode-in-the-1970s.htm

I am admittedly increasingly stubborn once I start down a path, especially one blocked by poor design, and would put racks on the very cool Dancing Queen by hook or by crook; headliner out and bolted through above the roof pillars or somehow welded atop the roof. Have the towers bolted or welded on if the crossbars were still easily removable would be a huge boon. If welded paint them to match the roof line.

In keeping with the 90’s theme maybe not just paint; I’d add some glitter, and epoxy on a Tamagotchi so you remembered to feed it at rest stops while you checked the racks and ropes. And external speakers so you could blast an era-appropriate mix tape like a parade vehicle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Year-End_Hot_100_singles_of_1997

(You really should torture your friends and family with a 1997 mix tape)

Short story. My father bought a used motor home in the early 90’s when his step daughter was Cheerleading in high school, and he would drive the whole squad to away games in rural Georgia. He had that beast tricked out nine ways to Sunday, including a good sound system. And external speakers for the parking lot before and after games.

The girls all brought their favorite cassette tapes, and Ed (god bless his soul, That sure don’t sound like Doris Day to me) would play them. On one trip through small town Georgia he forgot that he had left the external speakers turned on, so Main Street Griffin and Zebulon got treated to Boys II Men, Paula Abdul and Mariah Carey.

Back on topic - Does anyone know how securely crossbar towers could be welded, over the pillars, onto a sheet metal van roof? I have taken trailers and brackets and hitches and etc to a local welder; 20 minutes (10 if we hadn’t been shooting the crap half the time), $20, good to go.

 

[mwaalen]

My wife took over the Ford so I needed to rekindle this project. Definitely fate as, for the life of me, I can't figure out why Mad River didn't come with an Astro mounted as a standard option??? How did they miss this? Roof Rack construction as follows...

1. Measure, dry-fit, measure again to make certain elevations & all work with your boat. Lots to consider.
2. Four weather-proof Jack Nuts fastened to high corrugations on roof. Two for each cross-bar. They cost about $4 each and can get online or most auto-part stores. Contemplated using more but my thought is bow and stern tie-downs do the utmost bulk of the work. Specifically the bow tie-down. Buy an extra jack-nut to test into some scrap sheet stock of some sort. I tightened my first too much (with ratchet) and it broke. The rest I simply tightened with screwdriver. Lots of metube videos online showing how to install these without needing to get the special jack-nut tool.
3. Cedar 2x2s purchased and used for crossmembers.
4. In my case the jack nuts did not sit completely square to the roof so could not simply drill square through the 2x2s or the fastener/screw would not find the hole. Therefore I aligned the screw to the cross-member and marked the angle to drill.
5. Used forstner bit to countersink both the bottom and top of the 2x2. Bottom recess just enough to fit the jack-nut head and top to accommodate the screw length you purchase.
6. Being there are now 4 countersunk "cisterns" on the top of my van which would collect rainwater and transfer it directly into the roof, I plugged them up with plumber's putty for now until I figure out some different type of goop. Caps just don't seem weatherproof enough to me. When transporting, I also use foam gunnel pads which (in my case) fit directly over these countersunk holes. Lucky for me!
7. When rack is not needed it can be removed in 2 minutes.Then each of the jack nuts is plugged with a shorter (Stainless Steel) screw.
8. Purchased cool, removable hood straps ($6) for bow tie down and also metubed how to do a trucker's hitch. Why has it taken me 30 years to learn this knot?

I think that's about it. If I ever transport 2 canoes I will use the existing crossbars as patterns and make two more at a longer length. May put in more jack nuts at that point however in the traveling I've done thus far I am not experiencing much "lift".

 

[Guest]

Freaking Yay, roof racks on the cool beans Aerostar! Nicely DIY’ed solution, including the important removability issue. Nice canoe, nice van, nice job, nice looking travelling rig.

Gunwale stops on a wood crossbar are simple and easy. I slide my canoe(s) onto the van racks from the back, so I have two / \ angled stops (1 x 1 x 3 ½” pieces of hardwood) screwed in to the front crossbar, to wedge capture the bow of the boat in the perfect tie down fore/aft position on the front crossbar.

Yup, that’s exactly where it best fits, no guessing.

I didn’t want both inwale and outwale stops on the back crossbar, sticking up in the way of an easy, unobstructed slide on, especially carrying multiple canoes. So the rear crossbar has paired inwale and outwale stops / / and \ \ along the outside edges of the crossbar.

dang that is hard to explain, but it sure works; slide the canoe on ‘til the bow is / \ trapped between gunwale stops in perfect position, lift the stern and set it between the \ \ outside edge gunwale stops.

I am a huge fan of gunwale stops, and if you can DIY them on wood crossbars for pennies vs the stupid pricey manufactured rack versions, heck yes.

https://www.rei.com/product/871132/thule-portage-canoe-gunwale-brackets?sku=8711320001&store=137&cm_mmc=PLA_Google_LIA|404_176602|8711320001|none|72ac8e98-974a-4d35-bd96-d76d18d8e957|pla-448242344385&lsft=cm_mmcLA_Google_LIA|404_176602|8711320001|none|72ac8e98-974a-4d35-bd96-d76d18d8e957&kclid=72ac8e98-974a-4d35-bd96-d76d18d8e957&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-Jqe4K-o4gIVAyaGCh3pBgvkEAQYASABEgLA9_D_BwE

or even load stops.

https://www.rackwarehouse.com/yakim...MI-Jqe4K-o4gIVAyaGCh3pBgvkEAQYAiABEgKwYvD_BwE

 

[mwaalen]

Thanks Mike. I think I understand your solution and I've noodled over the gunwale stop thing as well. Initially took the shim-shape (triangle) drop off the ends of the 2x2s and planned to glue it to the top of the crossmembers however a permanent stop would not accommodate every canoe the same way. The problem with my system is that I can't hardly get anything under the crossmembers as a clamp. Therefore the clamping would need to come from the sides. I have put topper clamps up there just to see how they may work but took them off as they then interfered with the gunwale pads. Probably don't need the gunwale pads as the cedar crossmember is softer than the ash but no doubt the ash would mar over time.

For positioning the boat front-to-back gunwale stops seem perfect however in my mind their function in preventing side-to-side movement is unnecessary as the angled bow ties should prevent this along with the 2 hull straps.

Thoughts?? Thanks.

 

[bcelect]

Oh how I miss my Astro. Thule made a short roofline adapter kit which fit on the front, looked weird but worked. Both brackets were at the front doors and two crossbars. I transported skis and canoes with that in the front. In the rear I installed rain gutter brackets and used Thule high mount rain gutter towers. I removed the interior trim and drilled and mounted the brackets a few inches down from the roof and several inches from the rear door. I tried to get the ribs instead of just the sheet metal. Sorry no pictures, that was 1986, donated it in 1995, 200,000+ miles later.

 

[bcelect]

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[bcelect]

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[gumpus]

Wow nice rack Micah. I also like load stops because they add redundancy to your system and give some peace of mind by keeping the boat from wiggling around. They even help quite a bit if you have them on just one side because you can pull the boat hard against them when you tighten the straps. One option you have is to just use hardwood dowels...drill holes in your crossbars and stick in hardwood dowels. I imagine that even 1/4 inch dowels would do since it would take a lot of force to make them fail in shear.

 

[mwaalen]

Thanks for the Thule suggestions. At first thought the Artificial Gutter seemed like a perfect solution but without going out and looking I'm not certain it would work on the sliding door side of the van. Would definitely feel better about holes in the sides aside from on top as they are now.

 

[alsg]

I am a huge fan of gunwale stops, and if you can DIY them on wood crossbars for pennies vs the stupid pricey manufactured rack versions, heck yes.

https://www.rei.com/product/871132/thule-portage-canoe-gunwale-brackets?sku=8711320001&store=137&cm_mmc=PLA_Google_LIA|404_176602|8711320001|none|72ac8e98-974a-4d35-bd96-d76d18d8e957|pla-448242344385&lsft=cm_mmcLA_Google_LIA|404_176602|8711320001|none|72ac8e98-974a-4d35-bd96-d76d18d8e957&kclid=72ac8e98-974a-4d35-bd96-d76d18d8e957&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-Jqe4K-o4gIVAyaGCh3pBgvkEAQYASABEgLA9_D_BwE

I have that stupid pricey manufactured (Thule) system. It includes more than just the 4 gunwale stops. It also includes two belly straps (with rubber covers that go over the buckles), and bow and stern lines (and S hooks for one end) that tighten down with carabineer-mounted ratchets and straps. Hard to see, but its everything but the cross bars in this photo.

 

[mwaalen]

Hello gumpus & thanks. Somehow missed your post yesterday. Dowels may be the answer. Currently I am using short sections of the profiled gunwale pads in the 4 places where the boat comes into contact with the crossbars. Since they are an inch or so thick at the sides, the gunwales would be that inch away from the dowels. Still, I may go away from these pads. Then it would work as suggested.

 

[gumpus]

Just throwing ideas at you in case any of them help you.

Another alternative would be to use just two dowels on your front crossbar to trap the front of the boat where the forces are highest.

And clear vinyl tubing from the hardware store works well for gunnel protection. Just cut to desired length and slit.



​​​​​​​

 

[Guest]

I think I understand your solution and I've noodled over the gunwale stop thing as well. Initially took the shim-shape (triangle) drop off the ends of the 2x2s and planned to glue it to the top of the crossmembers however a permanent stop would not accommodate every canoe the same way.

Thoughts?? Thanks.

On our four-crossbar Quick and Easy van racks I have angled outwale bow stops / \ for all four boats. The bow simply slides into captured position between the stops.

That four-boat rack solution is hard to describe; two boats load from the back as usual, resting bow on crossbars #2 and stern on crossbar #4 (counting from the front), and two boats load from the front, resting bow on #3 and stern on crossbar #1. The canoes are taper staggered fore and aft and positioned barely an inch apart. The gunwale stops prevent the hulls from shifting and possibly touching each other, so that hulls can’t rub together (I’ve seen the aftermath of boats rubbing together for hundreds of miles, not pretty)

The crossbars that capture the bows each have two sets of / \ stops, the crossbars that hold the sterns have paired stops \ \__________/ / only on the outside edge of the crossbars to capture one inwale/outwale edge on both sides, so there is an un-gunwale-stopped expanse of crossbar on which to slide the canoe into place. Slide the bow between / \, lift up the stern and set the outboard gunwale beween \ \ or / /.

I left the inwale/outwale capture stops a little wider than needed, so there is a bit of slop to accommodate different gunwale materials.

The crossbars are numbered (and arrowed ->) so I know which ones go on the rain gutters where. It is quite the macramé of 2-per-boat eight belly lines, complex enough that I made diagrams of which boats in the family fleet fit best where, and in which order they need to be loaded. Actually even our Thule and Yakima racks are marked FL (front left) or RR (rear right), and FR and RL; that makes getting the racks in the correct place/orientation much easier.

Serendipitously the same screwed in place stops (1x1x3” pieces of wood) proved to capture a variety of canoe gunwales. For example the same stops that hold the Independence also hold the Freedom Solo or the Wilderness, and the same stops that hold the Explorer hold the Cronje, the Penobscot or the Odyssey. There is a Malecite, Horizon and even a pack canoe held in that mix as well. With a 19 year old van and family choice between a dozen boats I have accumulated a deck of diagram cards showing which boats fit where in what racking order. And try to remember to bring the appropriate card with me for the rack puzzle at the take out.

The only canoe that fit too loosely in between the stops was a friend’s 18’ Wenonah Sundowner, and I just screwed in a new gap-filling length of wood gunwale stop before a 5000 roadtrip.

If your potentially roof racked canoes are fewer it’s worth putting a boat up there, Sharpie-ing some inwale/outwale lines and then sliding another boat in place to see how well things match up.

I recognize that I am a belt and suspender guy and have gunwale stops on all of our roof rack systems. Each boat gets two belly lines, bow and stern lines and gunwale stops. Nothing should budge.

 

[mwaalen]

Thanks Gumpus, the poly tube is just the solution I was looking for! Have some in the shop so costs me zip. Now any gunwale stop solution will work.

P.S...I've had my van out in the recent monsoons with the racks on and mounting holes plugged with plumbers putty. A couple days of solid sunshine as well and the stuff seems to perform its intent in keeping water from wicking into the headliner via the fasteners.

Its somewhat messy but....it just hit me....earplug wax!! Maybe it would melt in the sun?

looks like I've got another suggestion on stops so will read on and learn some more.

Thanks as always gents.

 

[Guest]

I've had my van out in the recent monsoons with the racks on and mounting holes plugged with plumbers putty. A couple days of solid sunshine as well and the stuff seems to perform its intent in keeping water from wicking into the headliner via the fasteners.

Its somewhat messy but....it just hit me....earplug wax!! Maybe it would melt in the sun?

I had not thought about the potential for leaks through the headliner, which with the plumber’s putty kinda eliminates the easy removal or switch out for wider 2-boat rack.

If you ever do need to dig out the putty to remove the racks, some Teflon tape on the threads, and a flanged caplug, lightly glued to the rack around the flange might work. Maybe a piece of duct tape over the caplug for belt & suspenders & elastic waistband triple waterproof surety.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetai...MI7N_voMW04gIVRh-GCh3QKwHEEAQYBSABEgK3t_D_BwE

A decent hardware store should have the diameter caplug needed.

 

[mwaalen]

Thanks Mike.
With the way my entire set-up ended up, the rack mounting holes (in-line with the raised roof corrugations) just so happens to be exactly where the gunnels sit (or at least drag across) on both the front and back. What are the odds of that?? Therefore when I slide the boat on from the rear of the vehicle the slightly-raised fastener heads for seat/thwart/yoke drag directly across the mounting holes. Initially I was on the same page as you with a plug and checked out the local hardware stores but nothing fit. The ones you show seem like a better design however so will check them out further. With any cap (as you suggested) I would not feel comfortable unless it was further sealed.

All the above garble just meaning that whatever I put up there, it seems the more flush (or even sub-flush) would work best. Actually removing the rack, even with plumber's putty, takes mere seconds. I keep a ball of putty in a bag...in a jar...in my van, so always available. Plugs, putty, tape...I think they are all workable in combination or possibly independently. I have had the rack off and the short fasteners/plugs installed and still no water infiltration given the rain keeps coming this spring.

Yet another thought...that black goop one puts around vents/pipes/AC lines that protrude out the side of a house.Stays pliable for decades.

Still have yet to look further into the outwale stop suggestions but will do so in the next few weeks.

Have a good holiday everyone

 

[Guest]

above garble

Talk about garble, my above / \ and \\______// gunwale stop descriptions would make more sense with some photos. Your DIYed crossbar looks to hold only one canoe, so the arrangement of stops would be simpler than with a multi-boat rack.

The four Quick and Easy crossbars for a four canoe van rack.

P5240046 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Being an overly complex four-canoe rack that probably doesn’t make much more sense, but they are all numbered and arrowed so I know where they go.

P5240047 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Maybe better illustrated with just two crossbars. The back crossbar, with paired \ \ stops to capture one boat’s gunwale on the outside edge of the crossbar, carpeted for easy sliding.

P5240050 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

The front crossbar, with /______\ stops to capture the bow. The canoe slides into the exact spot desired fore and aft, keel line always down the centerline of the vehicle. Just lift the stern and set it between the paired \ \ stops in the back.

Having the canoe always held in the exact best location eliminates the guesswork; racking boats, walking off for a look and discovering, “Eh, crap, a little further forward on the racks would be better spaced”.

P5240051 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

And a lot of eye bolts (lots of belly lines with 4 canoes), some on the crossbars, some on the sides to keep an open expanse of carpeted slider bar available.

P5240052 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

I think having the belly lines passing through eyebolts and held close to the edge of the hull helps in high winds.

P5240055 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

We were driving home through the Adirondacks canoes on the Q&E racks the afternoon the Derecho hit in 1995. Branches and debris were flying everywhere and the van was rocking too violently to drive. I parked it on the lee side of a brick bank building and we sat it out sheltered there. The van was still rocking, the wife was freaking and the kids thought it thrilling.

Nary a boat budged an inch.