Astro Van Canoe Rack Ideas Anyone??

[mwaalen]

Time to poll the experts as I am striking out with my far-too-many months worth of internet searching. The stock rack for a 1997 Astro (GMC Safari) is discontinued so not available through dealerships. I have asked a number of them. The only one currently on ebay is for an earlier model which will not fit. A local junk yard supposedly has a couple I can remove (for $50) but I can just imagine how enjoyable this will be. Not certain if I could spit out enough curse words to sustain me through removal of such a thing. Much less reinstallation after I bent it into a 4-dimensional lemniscate in an frustrated furious rage. Yes, I had to look up that word too.

PROBLEMS I SEE...

1. Notice how the photo below (1996 Astro & quite possibly a MR Sunrunner!!! WooooHoooo) has a universal crossbar in the front.
2. My stupid van does not have the "water channels" or whatever they are called that drain water around the windows so most typical, universal crossbars have nothing to "hook" to.
3. My stupid van could use a universal crossbar up front (as shown below). The type with pads & straps that run through the interior of the cab. But.....Then what the heck do I do in the rear as my stupid van does not have windows that roll down to install the same type crossbar there.
4. Commercial ladder rack?? Lots of these around but are expensive if new. Maybe this is the only option??

Absolutely any reply would be much appreciated. Even if you have the same stupid van with the same stupid problem and couldn't come up with anything

Thanks for the therapy
Micah

 

[Alan Gage]

If your van has provisions to bolt on a factory rack that seems like by far the easiest method. I've only ever removed a couple factory racks but they were simply bolted on, nothing difficult. Maybe this one is different. Unfortunately it often seems that bolting the rack onto a vehicle that wasn't factory equipped is not so simple as many times the threaded holes aren't there.

The option I'd likely go for would be to remove the headliner and bolt 4 chunks of angle iron to each corner the roof. Steel for cheap and easy or aluminum for less chance of rust. I used an old bed frame that was galvanized. Once the headliner is removed you can be sure you won't drill into something you shouldn't drill into and backup the nut on the inside with a washer for better hold. Use lock nuts so you don't have to worry about them vibrating loose. I used black silicone (The Right Stuff by Permatex) to seal it up. Filled the area around the hole so when the angle was bolted down it squished it out, making a sort of gasket.

Once those angles are bolted to the roof you can use whatever material you'd like to connect them front to rear.. Square tubing is cheap and easy. So are 2x4s but you'd probably want to replace them (wood 2x4) every couple years. Once your bars are in place front to rear you can again use whatever material you want to connect them left to right. I do like a 2x4 laid flat for this since it's where the gunwales rest and a carriage bolt can be easily counter sunk.

Or I guess in your case you could skip the front to back bars and just run them left to right in front and back.

Alan

 

[Guest]

Micah, a friend had a similar vintage Astro van with the same dilemma.

The only manufactured solutions I know of all involve drilling holes in the roof, either removing the headliner and bolting racks to the roof, or drilling holes and installing aftermarket rain gutters (which may, I am not sure, be simply pop riveted in place).

I am very leery of drilling holes in the roof, but of those two possible solutions I would prefer the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP]. That wouldn’t require removing the headliner and would allow using any kind of rain gutter mount roof racks and, more importantly, taking them off when not in use.

Back to my Astro driving friend. He DIY’ed a redneck roof rack for his Astro. Wood crossbars with some thick foam glued on the bottom, with downward facing eye bolts near the ends of the crossbars. The foam rested directly on the roof. He drilled holes low on the sides of the van below the ends of the crossbars and put eye bolts and fender washers there as well, and simply used cam straps through the eye bolts to cinch the racks down tight.

It wasn’t pretty, but it worked and he hauled two canoes for thousands of miles like that. And he could just unfasten four cam straps and take the racks off when not needed.

 

[Mason]

I'd research into installing gutter mounts (Thule, Yakima), which require drilling through the roof. I have them on my popup truck camper and my topper. That way you can get conventional gutter mount racks (Thule, Yakima, Quik n Easy). Although the gutter mounts would be permanent, you can remove the racks.

 

[mwaalen]

Thank you for the reinforcement on the OEM rack idea Alan. I have seen the assembly drawings on these and more parts than I would've guessed but agreed not complicated.The van has plastic molding/trim strips glued into a channel running down both the left and right sides shown in photo. Currently uncertain what they are for as the left side runs from the back up to the rear of the front driver's door and the right goes from the back up to the rear of the sliding door. They cover a channel that has a small lip but does not seem undercut enough to provide a surface to "hook" to as a gutter would. The purpose of these wide channels in the sheetmetal escapes me.

Thanks for the suggestions Mike & Mason on the aftermarket gutters as I am unfamiliar with them. Will definitely look into this. I hope to avoid doing anything with the interior, or having anything look too cobby, as this van is quite pristine for an old thing. Would love to have my vintage Astro carrying my vintage MR but if can't make it so without loads of trouble may have to steal back the old Montero from my son.

Thanksomuch!
Micah

 

[Guest]

The van has plastic molding/trim strips glued into a channel running down both the left and right sides shown in photo. Currently uncertain what they are for as the left side runs from the back up to the rear of the front driver's door and the right goes from the back up to the rear of the sliding door. They cover a channel that has a small lip but does not seem undercut enough to provide a surface to "hook" to as a gutter would. The purpose of these wide channels in the sheetmetal escapes me.

I would bet that under that plastic molding on the roof are threaded “receivers”, bolt holes used to accommodate an optional factory installed roof rack. There would not be such a threaded receiver atop the sliding door area (can’t attach a roof rack tower there), so no reason for the molding to extend that far forward.

If you are of a mind try peeling up/out that molding at the back on one side. If you see threads in the exposed channel that is where a factory rack would have been bolted in place on an Astro van with an optional rack.

If there are receiver threads for a roof rack you have several choices:

1.A permanently installed rack made by bolting L towers into those receivers. A few days ago we installed a VanTech rack on a roof-rackless Ford Transit. That system, while it was manufactured for the Transit, consisted of (from the roof line up) thick rubber plates that sat inside the sheet metal channel over the Transit’s existing bolt threads, L-brackets that bolted through the rubber plate and into the threads and crossbars that attached to the L brackets

That sounds like something DIY able; thread-matching SS bolts of the correct length, sturdy L-bracket of some sort, rubber pad that fits inside the roof channel recess under the foot of the L-bracket with a bolt sized hole drilled through it, DIY’ed crossbars of some sort.

Or even partially DIY-able, using something like the Vantech racks with the correct bolts.

https://www.rackwarehouse.com/vante...MIyJ3mqdKL3gIVBYnICh0zOQQbEAYYAyABEgKhkvD_BwE

2.Find a factory roof rack on a junkyard Astro of similar vintage. Take it off, provided nothing is rusted beyond removal. Put that roof rack on your Astro. And then (look at the $$$ and availability first) buy a Yakima/Thule/etc roof rack crossbars made to attach to that factory rack. The weight capacity would only be what the factory racks were specified to hold (sometimes surprisingly little weight), but those might be more easily removable when not in use. You can tell I am less fond of that choice.

Peel up the end of that molding at the rear (hopefully it will snap back in place). If there are threads for a roof rack I suspect there would be a bolt hole within a foot or so of the end of the roofline, the rear crossbar is usually close to the back end.

If that into-the-existing-bolt-holes solution worked you could get really tricky and install door sized lengths of raingutter over the driver’s and passenger’s doors and use a (removable) clamp-on crossbar there. That would give you much longer crossbar spacing, and three crossbars, which is sometimes useful.

When the Transit returns I will take some photos of that rubber pad, bolted on tower and crossbar attachment.

 

[mwaalen]

Found an Astro in the parking lot with rack however it mounts inside of the goofy plastic molding. Darn again as my van has no pre-drilled anything on the roof. Still need to look into the aftermarket gutters.

Thanks

 

[Mason]

I'm guessing that the grooves you're seeing are sort of a tongue-in-groove slot which will allow sliders to clamp down. I checked Thule, and they have some attachments for canoes which fit existing grooves in Astro vans. Not knowing which one you have, I didn't pursue further. Here's a link to what I'm talking about:

 

[mwaalen]

Thanks Mason. The Fit My Car interface has 3 options for Astros however they don't have anything for a van without anything already up there. I did a bit more image searching and found a couple options of different brands that look promising and I may just need to get on the phone with some of the manufacturers. The second photo looks quite universal for any vehicle that has..........doors. Maybe I could stream archived videos of the Red Green Show. I would imagine he's put a rack on just about everything.

 

[mwaalen]

Whoops...The universal photo on the right would work for the front but not the back as only a sliding door on the one side. I'm getting lost in all the details.

 

[Alan Gage]

I still think what you're trying most to avoid is the simplest and most practical solution. Removing headliners is not a big deal. Surely there are how-to's and videos on youtube for removing Astro headliners. Drilling holes in a car roof isn't difficult or scary. A DIY rack doesn't have to look cobbled. A little attention to detail and spray paint (any color you want) could make it look better than anything from Thule or Yakima and easily more functional and sturdy. The flat roof of the Astro is certainly to your advantage. You could have a rack by the end of the weekend. About 8 feet of 1 1/4" square tubing, two feet of 3" angle (maybe a little higher on the vertical leg), handful of bolts, spray paint, and sealant. A metal chop saw is nice but it could all be cut with a hacksaw. A bench grinder would speed things up but a good hand file would work too. A bench vice is cheap if you don't already have one.

We are afterall talking about a 20+ year old Astro Van. Not to denigrate your vehicle but it has virtually no value as-is so it's not like you have to worry about resale value. And the roof is so high no one can see the rack system anyway unless they crawl up for a look.

Alan

 

[Guest]

I'm guessing that the grooves you're seeing are sort of a tongue-in-groove slot which will allow sliders to clamp down. I checked Thule, and they have some attachments for canoes which fit existing grooves in Astro vans. Not knowing which one you have, I didn't pursue further. Here's a link to what I'm talking about:

I’m thinking Mason is correct. If there are no threaded receivers under that black trim piece for bolt on racks then they may have been used to cover just such a tongue & groove or T slot. If those black roof line trim pieces were there for purely aesthetic reasons the roof would look more symmetrical with the same black trim on the sliding door (where a rack crossbar could not be attached)

The GM engineers must have changed the roof on the Astro a few times. I’m pretty sure my friend Dave’s Astro had nothing on the roof, no rack, no trim, no threaded holes or grooves for a rack.

And actually, he owned two Astros; I think he liked having a dashboard deep enough to rest a large pizza box atop.

Short end-of-Astro story. When his first Astro died he asked his mechanic if he had anything he wanted to swap for the vehicle carcass. His mechanic traded him an antique Johnson outboard. Dave took the Johnson to a large marina and asked the owner if he maybe had a canoe or kayak he would swap for the outboard.

The guy hemmed and hawed hesitantly over a couple of old Grummans he had, and finally showed Dave another canoe, saying “Well, I’ll trade ya this thing”

This “thing” was a pristine plum purple kevlar Mad River Independence.

 

[Alan Gage]

I had a Grand Caravan with no roof racks but it did have that same strip of black rubber inset into the roof. I figured it covered the factory mounting holes and that if I could get a used rack I could just peel the strip off and bolt it on. I found some vans of the same vintage but none of them had roof racks that mounted in that area. I don't remember if they also had the black strip or not. I have no idea what that strip is there for but I wouldn't assume to find anything useful if you removed it.

I also had a Nissan Sentra with no rack. I did buy a used rack from a salvage yard for it but I had to drill my own holes since there were none from the factory. Seems like it would be simpler for the factory to outfit every vehicle for racks, whether they were actually installed or not. But maybe not?

Alan

 

[Guest]

Seems like it would be simpler for the factory to outfit every vehicle for racks, whether they were actually installed or not. But maybe not?

For something like a van having some mechanism for attaching roof racks seems logical. Chevy made the Astro as a cargo van, with no side windows, and those had a variety of aftermarket racks for ladders and etc. Could be that they were all bolted through the roof.

https://www.google.com/search?q=che...AKHSJqBxQQ_h0wDnoECAkQEQ#imgrc=z7bGrWFTffgUsM:

 

[Guest]

Doing a little more Google image searching, it looks like at least some Astro van roof racks attach at that black molding. . . .with drilling required.

http://www.van-ladder-racks.com/Astro,-Safari.html

I guess that are no rack connections without drilling.

 

[hidden_lo]

could save yourself the work drilling of holes and just use foam blocks or removable temp racks. I have a removable crossbar that I use when I transport via pickup. or you could use aircraft grade epoxy to permanently attach the rail with no holes

 

[Guest]

could save yourself the work drilling of holes and just use foam blocks or removable temp racks. I have a removable crossbar that I use when I transport via pickup. or you could use aircraft grade epoxy to permanently attach the rail with no holes

I really want my roof racks to be my last concern while travelling any distance from home. We have broken a gunwale stop in a Great Plains crosswind, a wind strong enough that we had trouble opening the truck doors.

I did an inadvertent acid test with a pair of Thule Tracker II crossbars. Hit a black ice patch, slid out-of-control sideways (and famously said to my passenger mid-slide “Welllll. . . . . this isn’t good”), binged a guardrail with first the front bumper, then pivot slid around violently and binged off the rear bumper, before coming to rest on someone’s lawn. We probably had 150 lbs of boat weight on the racks. Nothing moved even a fraction of an inch.

I have used (and still occasionally use) foam blocks on short, local trips when jerry rigging a canoe on someone’s rackless car. “Short, local trips”, I would not be confident traveling any distance with foam blocks in fierce crosswinds, panic stops or fender benders. Most accident happen within how many miles of home?

When I have a valuable object, or two, strapped to the roof I want some surety of security. That’s one reason why, if I have a vehicle-fit choice, I would prefer to use beefy construction/ladder racks, the weight capacity spec for those construction racks is often crazy high.

Which are, to Allen’s point, often bolted through the roof.

I have said this before, but on any full sized vehicle the roof racks should be able to carry (at least) two canoes, gunwales down in stops. Downriver shuttles, trips with family or friends. . . . .if you can’t carry another boat your rack instantly becomes far less useful. In for a penny, in for at least 100 lbs of tandem canoes strapped securely on the racks.

Especially to the guy figuring out a shuttle scheme that transports paddlers and boats, and leaves the appropriate vehicles at the take out, without running back and forth betwixt unnecessarily. Even more so on a long shuttle ride.

 

[mwaalen]

Thanks everyone. Lots to digest and I need to do a bit more investigation before I respond to any of the helpful suggestions. Here in MN we went from 90's to 20's in the course of about 2 weeks so winter prep has been a bit frantic. Hope to share more this evening. I'll snap a couple photos of my "stupid van" as it may explain why I'm going the extra mile to exlpore all options.

 

[mwaalen]

All that I had time for this weekend was to snap these photos of my "stupid" van which I honestly am quite fond of. It is my low budget, slightly unusual, hotrod. Kind of like my Sunrunner which will look oh so sweet when perched on top. Admittedly aesthetics make no difference in the world of canoe tripping but this will be my obsession for the long winter months.

With the conversion package, headliners etc. are just a bit more challenging. I have some more homework to do so will be back in touch be next weekend.

Thanks everyone.
Micah

 

[Guest]

Wow, I had no idea the Astro was that tricked out. Is it a conversion van, or factory Chevy options?

Step side, with a moon visor over the windshield. Are those curtains that pull down over the windows? Skylights in the roof?

Very cool Astrovan, it would look even better with a Sunrunner on racks.