And so it begins... (Bell Merlin II Repairs)

[FartherWest]

Well, I pulled the handles, thwarts and the seat last night after a few stops on the way home from work (Home Depot and West Marine).

Here is a picture of handles (they are in pretty close to the same condition), I'm not sure they are salvageable with large chucks of wood missing?



Also, the wood at the ends of the handles is very soft and spongy. I think those will need to be replaced?

The thwarts are in pretty good shape though.

 

[Guest]

The carry handles look to be toast. You might save the best of them as a template if you decide to cut, rout, sand and varnish new ones preserving that distinctive Bell shape.

If you deem the thwarts salvageable just sand them to bare wood and coat them with varnish or spar urethane. Don’t forget to varnish or urethane inside the holes as well. I’d run a drill through the hole to clean out any gunk, and then a varnish soaked pipe cleaner or cotton swab. Same goes for the holes on the new thwarts, seat and hangers.

Speaking of seats, specifically the Conk seat, I do not know if Conk makes seats on request with the specific hole spacing to accommodate the gunwales holes in Bell Merlin II.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Carry thwarts yes are toast

 

[FartherWest]

I decided on a product called Flitz Metal, Plastic and Fiberglass Polish" (Liquid)

Here are a few before and after shots:







So far, I am very please with that. Will re-work it again to see if I can get more the damage to come off, but still a significant improvement.

 

[Guest]

I decided on a product called Flitz Metal, Plastic and Fiberglass Polish" (Liquid)

So far, I am very please with that. Will re-work it again to see if I can get more the damage to come off, but still a significant improvement.

Wow, that’s a lot more scratches and discoloration that the first photos showed, and it looks like the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] go-round with polish did an admirable job. Even if some discoloration remains after a 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] polish I’d call it good enough. They already look better than some of my gunwales.

BTW, barefoot? Gotta watch the background in those shop photos.
BTWII – If you photograph some task and reveal Croc’s on your feet you’ll never hear the end of it.

Looking forward to some before and after photos of the hull when you get to waxing and polishing. I think the asking price for Steve’s Merlin is going up.

 

[FartherWest]

BTW, barefoot? Gotta watch the background in those shop photos.
BTWII – If you photograph some task and reveal Croc’s on your feet you’ll never hear the end of it.

Looking forward to some before and after photos of the hull when you get to waxing and polishing. I think the asking price for Steve’s Merlin is going up.

I know, I often work in the garage barefoot in the summer. Since I clean it, I get the benefit. That being said, then the drill comes out and metal/wood shavings start to fly, the shoes come out too.

Crocs: yep, I own a pair of those too but don't wear them in the garage. Sort of a necessity when washing cars and boats though during the summer. Still have my eye out for a nice fuzzy pair though....

And maybe that should be the next poll - who owns, has ever owned, and will never own, a pair of Crocs. I was in the later category for years and my husband finally won me over... hate it when he's right.

Edit - I ordered a set of Bell handles from Eds Canoes - they looked similar to what I just pulled off. In the mail!

 

[cflcanoe]

Eds canoe has new carry handle for $5.25 in the Bell style. If you do not have the tools to make one.

 

[Guest]

Eds canoe has new carry handle for $5.25 in the Bell style. If you do not have the tools to make one.

Cool, I didn't know Ed's made Bell replica stuff.

FWIW, I'll never make another wood bench seat, Not that I have the skills to make a contour seat, but even with a flat bench I'll just order one from Ed's. Same for yokes, thwarts and carry handle.

The proof in the pudding is that I have a couple dozen cut and edge routed thwarts and yokes half finished in the shop, awaiting sanding and varnishing.

And have had them for years. "Hello, Ed's?"

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Speaking of seats, specifically the Conk seat, I do not know if Conk makes seats on request with the specific hole spacing to accommodate the gunwales holes in Bell Merlin II.

Hole spacing is usually standardized. As I said in the other thread, the Conk seat fit on my Bell Wildfire seat drops with no problem. Of course, the seat rails have to be cut to the right lengths and the holes drilled. If you want a lower seat than the Bell drops allow, you will have to add shims or buy longer drops. Conk makes his own drops, if you want, or generic drops can be bought from Ed's.

The thwarts look salvageable to me, if you want that type of wood. You could get laminated thwarts from Hemlock to match the Conk seat.

Did we ever determine the age of the canoe? FW, what's the serial number? It should be scratched or stamped on the hull somewhere.

 

[FartherWest]

Finally took the picture of the serial number:


Make that 14 years old, well, at least it cant drive yet.

I was going to try and start sanding the thwarts this evening, but not sure I'll get to it. Hip deep in carpet cleaning and preparing for a family invasion.

My brother and his family are staying with us for a month while they are on leave from Korea. It'll be great having the canoe in pieces. We used to hang out in the garage and drink beer at his place. My little project gives us the perfect excuse to the do same while he is here.

Might switch out the thwarts down the road, but for now just trying to get it solid and back together.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Finally took the picture of the serial number:


Make that 14 years old, well, at least it cant drive yet.

Yes, and the F means it was made in June of 03.

 

[Guest]

Hole spacing is usually standardized.

I just measured the seat hanger spacing on three canoes where I have not regunwaled or changed the seat location.

OEM Old Town seat – 8 5/8 inch center to center
OEM Mad River seat – 8 3/8 inch center to center (same for wood and plastic truss drops, I measured both)
OEM Nova Craft seat – 9 1/8 inch center to center

Some long-time manufacturers may have changed their spacing over the years. If ordering a replacement seat or drops I’d always measure center hole to center hole and include that with the make/model.

 

[gumpus]

By the way, your thwarts are indeed black walnut, which means you did get a black/gold boat. Congrats!

 

[deerfly]

if those thwarts are blk walnut they're probably fine structurally. I'd drip some epoxy in the screw holes, sand them with 220/320 and teak oil or varnish...

 

[gumpus]

Be careful about assuming that hole spacing is standardized on seats drops because it's not...see pics of Bell vs Ed's drops...they differ by about 5/16 inch. There are other posts on this site where folks repair their cane seats with webbing so that may be your best option. I bet you will not feel the need to lower your seat after paddling your boat a few times.

Or if you like I can send you my stock Merlin II cane seat and a longer set of Bell seat drops that I took off a boat set up for sitting...since I don't expect to use either. But you need to send me something cool from your area like amazing coffee or whatever.

The Conk seat looks awesome but it is expensive. Offhand I'd say just repair the seat you have with webbing and go paddling.

 

[Will Derness]

Your carry handles do look bad and would be replaced if it were my canoe.

A number of years ago I added carry handles to an older canoe. Bought the handles from Ed's Canoe and they are shaped much the way yours are, a curve cut into the square stock where you would place your hand.

I installed them differently than the way yours were installed. When I got the handles from Ed I fit them in my hand. The way they felt the most comfortable was to have the curve facing down, not facing horizontal as yours are. This requires a longer machine screw, but when lifting the canoe the handle fits very comfortably in my hand. I thought my install was just fine.

However, about 4 months ago I purchased a used MR canoe and it had the carry handles installed the same way yours are, curve facing horizontal and 90 degrees off of the way I installed mine (curve facing down). I thought it was a factory mistake as there were other factory errors with this canoe. This year I attended to WPASR and discovered to my amazement that everyone one of these high end canoe fabricators that use this type of handle have them installed the same way yours are and the MR I bought (curve facing horizontal). Still works, but not as comfortable on your hand.

So now I wonder if there is a reason these handles are installed 90 degrees differently than my method. Easier to install that way as it requires a shorter machine screw, but these high end canoe makers seem to pride themselves on their build quality. Am I missing something?

 

[FartherWest]

The new handles are on the way from Ed's and should arrive on Friday, just in time to re-install next weekend. I had planned on re-installing the way that they came off the boat. Until I know a little more about these things, I will assume the manufactures know what they are doing. If it doesn't make sense, I'll ask all of you!

I should be able to work on the thwarts and the floor this weekend, possibly the hull too if time and family commitments allows. I am really looking forward to seeing the thwarts cleaned up and varnished (because, 'urethaned' just doesn't sound right).

The seat hole spacing is none of what you mentioned, my are 8 1/8 apart center whole to center hole. I might explore converting the existing seat to webbing so it works until I can afford to replace it. Gumpus, what kind of coffee do you like? Before I order something else, I'll explore the measurements and make sure it'll fit. Since I have to cut it down and drill the holes myself it should be do-able. Right?

More pictures as I get more done!

Time to get on the water!!
Kathy

 

[Guest]

That OEM handle orientation is the norm. I’d varnish (I actually mean urethane, but typing/reading “varnish” sounds better) the butt ends another coat or two even if you don’t need to trim them to length. A coat or three if you do need to cut them to size.

The thwarts, if sound, are quick and easy to sand down and varnish. It looks better to my eye if the thwart color matches the carry handles (or vice versa), so if the new carry handles are stained or different wood you can stain the newly sanded thwarts to match.

Re-webbing the existing seat is also an easy job. I’d cut the lengths of webbing with a metal putty knife heated over a propane torch to seal the cut ends and prevent fraying, and measure the webbing to leaving an extra inch fold over at each end (ie + 2 inches), so the melt/cut end is folded “inside” the webbing. Exposed melt-cut webbing ends can be a bit leg raspy under the seat.

I have simply been using stainless steel staples tapped down with a hammer. Staple one side to the webbing to the bottom of the seat frame, tap down and pull taut, staple the other side and tap down. Another trip to the hardware store.

There are lots of threads and instructionals on filling the old spline gap and re-webbing seats here and elsewhere.

The handiest tool ever for removing and reinstalling canoe seat machine screws is this thing:

https://www.craftsman.com/products/craftsman-3-8-x-7-16-in-wrench-ratcheting-box

The box ends fit the nuts on the canoe usual 3/16 or ¼ inch machine screws and are easy to use working upside down, backwards and blind underneath an inwale. If you opt to install deeper drops you will be taking the seat out and reinstalling at least twice. Thrice if you custom cut a bit more off the new seat drops after some test paddling at initial depth.

BTW, the hull in that photo of the HIN looks suspiciously shiny. Did you already do the marine wax and buffing wheel?

 

[cflcanoe]

Just finished a seat today. I use an inexpensive soldering iron to cut/melt the webbing. A trick I use is to cut a cereal box into strips the same width as the webbing. This way you can plan and mark the underside of the seat for webbing location. https://www.countrybrookdesign.com has nice webbing but very expensive now a days. Bought some webbing off Ebay. Lot thinner and a tighter weave. Going to experiment with it soon. 1.5 inch 10yards black nylon heavy webbing strap fastening strap by cosmos. Looks to be strong and have about the same flex as the thick stuff. Please let us know were you buy your webbing.

Going to go try designing the missing on my Bell now. They had rotted completely off the canoe! The bolts were there tough. I have three other Bells right now. None of them have carry handles in them. They are all wood gunwales and have holes in the hulls for the bow and stern ropes by the factory. Will be tacking a close look at FartherWest Merlins handles, Thanks for the help the pictures will give me.

 

[snubber]

So now I wonder if there is a reason these handles are installed 90 degrees differently than my method. Easier to install that way as it requires a shorter machine screw, but these high end canoe makers seem to pride themselves on their build quality. Am I missing something?

More "beef" alongside of the drilled hole to minimize splitting and more area in contact with gunnels to prevent rotation???