16' Old Town Guide

[Robin]

I traded some emails with a fellow who had an OT Guide, said it was his Dad's. Dad bought it new in 1966, eventually moved to Fla in retirement and used the canoe in salt water...he shipped the canoe back to Connecticut 20 years ago and it sat in the loft since. Great shape, only the tacks had responded to the salt water in a negative way and the jury is out on what they were still good. I took a chance and brought it home tonight, paid $250, probably the best money I have ever spent. The wood is pristine, and the stains clean up with Watco oil. The tacks look solid. Even the 50 year old canvas is still usable but it needs replacement.
I like my Chestnuts, but I think this Old Town is a keeper.





The stains on the tacks were caused by salt water, I used Watco on the center rib in this image and it cleaned up nicely. What a great feeling to know this sweet canoe will look like new even after 50 years




The tacks show the response to salt water through the canvas also. Hopefully the tack heads will be ok, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[Dennis]

What a find! Nice one Robin.

 

[Boatman53]

I've got an Old Town that was used in salt water and it has the same condition only worse off. I've tried everything to combat the electrolysis. Sanded everything down varnished inside and out, new canvas and it's now worse than ever. And hasn't seen salt water since. Th brass tacks have all they need in the alloy to self destruct in a salt environment. Hope that works for you Robin. I might have to try it, at least it will make it look better.
Jim

 

[Iskweo]

Ohhhhh boy you may have bitten off a big slice of trouble. What if you have to renail the whole boat?

Nice looking canoe though, it would be worth the trouble.

Christy

 

[Robin]

What a find! Nice one Robin.

Thanks Dennis

Jim maybe mine is not as bad as yours, I don't know. I know most of the varnish is gone and the Watco soaked in. I'm going to go slowly with this one, maybe varnish that ribs after another coat of Watco and see what happens.

Christy, I'm going pull that canvas off and see what the tack heads look like, maybe even pull a few to check em. Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[Boatman53]

I re-nailed the whole boat as I recall. I see if I can get some pics today.
Jim

 

[Robin]

My co worker Bob came over this morning. Bob's not one to stand around, it wasn't long before we where pulling gunnels and stem bands. We stripped the canoe of canvas and found the tack heads to be in very good shape, no need to replace any,







Now this is a clean 50 year old hull!



Tacks look good, just a little white to the heads but not weak at all. Now just some tightening up of any loose tacks, a light sanding to the outside of the hull and some watco rejuvenating oil before canvas,



Proof it's the original canvas, whoever canvassed it wrote the date under the stem bands, 12 6 6 and 16 OTCA,



We oiled the inside of the canoe and applied some stain, looks go so far,

1st the Watco oil,



Then stain, you can still see the spots where the tacks reacted to salt water, but they seem less offensive right now. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

 

[martin2007]

Nice find, Robin! I'm curious about the planking in your boat. The planks are very narrow, more like strips than planks. How common is that in canvas-covered cedar canoes? I've a Richardson Aquacraft Voyageur, 1965, (Rilco Industries, Lakefield), that also has very narrow planks of western cedar. I was under the impression that that was a somewhat unique feature of the Lakefields of that vintage. To my untrained eye, the boats, yours and mine, look like cedar strip boats that were canvassed (rather than applying several coats of varnish) to seal them.

Is narrow stripping common in vintage American cedar and canvas canoes?

 

[Boatman53]

Here are some pics of my canoe Robin. It hasn't been in any water since I did the work, as I said I placed new nails sanded and varnished the exterior and the interior. I got the Dacron on and painted and was waiting on the right wood for gunnels and got busy with life. The next time I looked at it I was so disappointed I lost all motivation. I will never buy a boat that has been in salt water.

Even though you said the heads look fine, I suggest you try and pry one out. As with all the corrosion I've seen the canoes and big boats the worst deterioration is at the intersection of the two pieces of wood. I've pulled keel bolts that looked fine but at the joint deep down it was as thin as a pin.
I'm not sure what to do with boat.
Jim

 

[Robin]

Martin, I'm not sure about plank width and what it all means. I assume different manufactures had different widths and styles.

Jim, I removed some tacks that where corroded, but left others that seemed tight. A complete renail is an option but the hull is so smooth I'm hesitant to tear into it. I'm thinking by the time it needs a new canvas it will need some more new tacks, maybe alot of tacks.

Sanded hull ready for canvas.

Nesting the Old Town into the stretched canvas,

weighing it down to get the canoe to really settle into the canvas, the buckets are filled with sand and there are some good old New England rocks dropped into the ends

We will staple this canvas on Monday, then stretch the next canvas overnight and insert the Thompson Bros on Tuesday with some weight to let it get a good fit. Hope to have both canoes canvases filled by weeks end. We are using Old Town canvas filler so there then be a 30-40 day waiting period for the canvases to dry before we can sand and paint.

 

[Iskweo]

Robin...I would think that the salt is imbedded in the wood now so some process to remove/reduce that would be a good idea. either a scrub with hot water and soap or a neutraliser.
It is a really nice looking boat with a super smooth hull though so maybe worth a try to just recanvas. I see you are not quite as tired this week...lol.

Martin...my 50's vintage Langford has thinner, widely spaced ribs too. The Tremblays on the other hand have thicker ribs. Hurons can be sort of delicate too. I guess it all depends on what the builder had in mind. The smaller ribs make for a much lighter boat but not as sturdy. Hence the working boats were built like tanks while the pleasure models were less so? Again, I think it all depended on the intended end use. Nice Rilco.

Christy

 

[lowangle al]

Robin, weren't the Guide and the OTCA different boats. I thought the OTCA was built on the Yankee forms after the 50's. If it is a Guide I'd like to know how it compares to your Chestnuts to paddle.

 

[martin2007]

Christy, I'm focussing on the narrowness of the planks, not the ribs. The narrow (i.e. 1-inch) planks look "fitted" into one another rather than is the case with 2-3 inch planks laid with a few millimetres space between them as is the typical norm in other cedar/canvas boats I see. I wonder if, under the canvas, my Voyageur and other boats of that particular vintage are strip boats that the manufacture decided to "seal" with canvas rather than with multliple coats of varnish as per traditional strip boats. Just curious.

 

[Mihun09]

I agree the planking is much smaller than older boats, but it may have been due to a lack of larger wood available at the time. Perhaps originally designed for Fiberglas and then converted to canvas at the request of the purchaser prior to finishing.

As for the salt issue, the Penobscot we purchased from you has the same issue so we will need to deal with that at some point.

 

[martin2007]

Karin, are you mixing me up with someone else? I sold you a boat, yes, but it wasn't a Penobscot. It's a Huron, and it's never gone swimming in salt water.

 

[Mihun09]

Sorry Martin, yes, that was directed at Robin. We bought the Penobscot and the Morris from him two Summers ago. My bad.

 

[Robin]

Just so no one thinks I sold Mihun a bad canoe, the deal was I drove to Boston, (200 miles round trip), picked up the free canoe and delivered it to her 1100 miles away in nw Ontario. I asked for $50 for gas.
Just sayin'

Here's the canoe in the foreground

 

[Mihun09]

I never said you sold me a bad canoe, didn't even suggest it. I was just saying we will have to deal with the salt issue as well. No offence intended. Once we get around to it we'll figure out how to attack the salt issue.

Yes, we met in Geraldton to pick up the canoes from Robin, he was most generous in bringing them both that far when he was just going there for a solo trip. He certainly went further than we did, only 1000km from our end.

However, better than the canoes was meeting both Robin and Rob and sipping on some Bud Lite's while swapping stories around the fire.

 

[Iskweo]

Ahhhhh yes Martin...I totally brain farted the strips, not ribs. I have seen a couple of UFO's here that had that same narrow strip configuration but they were reaaaaaallly far gone. I will have to look closer next time, perhaps I have missed a gem.

Thanks to Robin, I would guess that we have the only Morris in Manitoba. I was all set to drive 2500 km to get one in Kingston a few years ago ...lol. Ever sick. Long story short, I had forgotten about the salt blooms. No matter. We have skills. Mad skills I tell ya, mad. Once the house reno work is done it will be back to canoes and we will come up with something.

I am thinking boiling water and a brush with multiple rinses. Maybe pressure washer rinses? Hard to say.

 

[Robin]

We tacked the canvas on this morning, Bob did his magic on the stems, another good job by my friend.

cutting the canvas around the stem is really nerve racking, one wrong move could leave you with a big repair job or a ruined canvas.

I have done stems in the past but Bob has become very good at it so why go with the JV team

small wrinkles develop and need to be removed by pulling staples and stretching the canvas some more.

finished ready for filler.