How to bail out when kneeling

[Punkinhead]

Is it really that big of an issue? In my early whitewater days I kneeled on a regular webbed seat and don't recall ever feeling like I'd get stuck and I had plenty of swims. I switched to foam pedestals later so I could add thigh straps but I never felt like the regular seat was a snag hazard. Still today I kneel using the webbed seat in my non-WW canoes and getting trapped has never occurred to me. I replace the seat hangers if necessary to get enough room for my feet. I don't usually wear shoes and I only have size 9.5 feet so maybe that plays into it. When I do wear shoes they're usually just neoprene booties. I would think bulky shoes and too low of a seat would be a problem but those are addressable.

I can't help but think it's like my recreational kayaking friends who are scared of getting entrapped. I tell them to just relax and they'll fall right out. The only time they have trouble is when they panic and twist themselves into a pretzel to try to get their head to the surface before they've gotten their legs out. Practicing wet exits in a calm spot or pool can help them relax and get over the panic reaction.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

14’ Swift Prospector

I've paddled that canoe, and I think as you get more seat time in it, you'll find it to be stable enough to have the seat high enough to clear your feet easily and still feel reasonably stable when sitting. That's a very nice boat, BTW.

Another thing that will improve with time is if you point your toes back as you kneel, your muscles and ligaments will stretch and loosen up and your feet will naturally lay flatter. That will also add clearance.

 

[Giffman]

Fear of drowning? Yea, it’s a big issue. Lol. Kidding aside (kinda), I’m sure as I get used to it I’ll get a better feel as to just how hard / easy this maneuver would be. I’d rather ask now than find myself in a life or death “oh sh@@“ moment. Not a big deal in that there’s no rush to figure it out. I can enjoy sitting and paddling as well.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Fear of drowning? Yea, it’s a big issue. Lol. Kidding aside (kinda), I’m sure as I get used to it I’ll get a better feel as to just how hard / easy this maneuver would be. I’d rather ask now than find myself in a life or death “oh sh@@“ moment. Not a big deal in that there’s no rush to figure it out. I can enjoy sitting and paddling as well.

It's a legitimate concern, and you're wise to be thinking about it.

Anyway, enjoy that Swift P14. I really liked the one I paddled.

 

[Alan Gage]

I replace the seat hangers if necessary to get enough room for my feet......and I only have size 9.5 feet so maybe that plays into it.

I think those two things probably make a big difference. I wear size 12 and paddle solo canoes exclusively. If I raise the seat high enough to somewhat comfortably get my feet under it then it feels too high for sitting, which is how I paddle 95% of the time. If I leave the seat at a comfortable sitting height then it takes so much work and maneuvering to get my feet under the seat that I do not want to take the chance of a capsize. Maybe they would just pop out as I bail from the canoe. Or maybe a heal gets hung up. Or maybe I wrench my knee in the process.

Alan

 

[lowangle al]

If you decide to raise your seat there is a happy medium. This is where you have enough room to easily get your feet out but still be able to use your feet to lock yourself into the boat. You do this with the opposing forces of your bent toes on bottom of the canoe and your heel pushing up on the bottom leading edge of the seat. Doing this with your seat at this hight you won't need thigh straps to be able to get maximum lean without risking falling out of the boat.

 

[carpenter]

I would always recommend finding calm water, a spotter, wear your PFD and empty your boat of anything you don't want to lose and play. Lean way over, stand up, move around in the boat, tip while sitting, tip while kneeling, find the range of initial and secondary stability. Best to know your boat and your body in the canoe before you NEED to. It is pretty impressive how much one can throw a boat around and still stay in...providing your head and shoulders stay inside the gunnel line.

Do you intend to do technical whitewater canoeing? If not, straps, quick release seats likely not in the cards, nor foam pedestal seats and cups. Pedestal tractor seats may be an option depending on your paddling style.

Kneeling would likely happen in high wave, sketchy current scenario, fewer hazards than in white water, likely more time to figure it out when hanging upside down from whatever position you have put yourself in. Those whitewater helmets aren't just for their good looks and superior ventilation when the hazards are underwater.

If the kayakers can comfortably bail, and they usually do, a canoeist can do it better.

 

[Pseudonym]

It is frightening to feel my feet snag momentarily under a seat during a capsize. I learned not to lean back during the capsize (which is a natural inclination) because that compounds the issue. Now I hunch forward and pull my knees rapidly to my chest to clear my feet as quickly as possible.

I've never paddled a boat with a pedestal but I'm very intrigued. I love @stripperguy's suggestion to mount "breakaway" hardware via 3M dual lock. That's a great idea.

 

[Alan Gage]

I've never paddled a boat with a pedestal but I'm very intrigued. I love @stripperguy's suggestion to mount "breakaway" hardware via 3M dual lock. That's a great idea.

It is a great idea. When I built my first sliding pedestal seat I made a large tractor seat for it. When I did my first capsize tests with it I found my foot would sometimes hang up on the wider seat. It wasn't terrible but having had knee issues in the past I worried about my foot temporarily hanging up in a capsize in rapids and possibly wrenching the knee. I started making smaller seats, which suit me fine, and these provide plenty of clearance. But a breakaway seat solves the problem while still using a larger (and possibly more comfortable) seat.

Alan

 

[Giffman]

Great information. I’m in that mess around and get used to it phase for sure. I envision kneeling mostly for when I want to cross some open water, cover some distance or if the wind picks up. Kneel, break out the kayak paddle and power thru. Maybe fish some of the wider rivers out west once I get comfortable with things. Otherwise it’s chill out and slow paddle with the single blade. I’m learning to sloooow down and enjoy the relaxing rhythm. Part of why I bought a canoe.