New Swift Prospector 15 Solo - Specs?

[NikonF5user]

My idea of a linebacker solo:
15'6"-16'6"-ish length.
2" front rocker, symmetrical or 1.5" rear.
28/29" gunwale width
30-32" max width
29" width 3" waterline
10"+ seat gap to floor
19"/14"/16" shear, bring it all up an inch if the shoulder needs lifted to get the seat high enough.
280-290# 3" waterline

Rockstar

ABOUT ROCKSTAR Meet the Rockstar Canoe: a lightweight yet spacious solo canoe that’s perfect for both long and short trips. This vessel is built to tackle mild whitewater with ease, offering plenty of room to spare for your gear. Whether you’re navigating exciting rapids or gliding smoothly...

redfeather.com

 

[Tryin']

Rockstar

ABOUT ROCKSTAR Meet the Rockstar Canoe: a lightweight yet spacious solo canoe that’s perfect for both long and short trips. This vessel is built to tackle mild whitewater with ease, offering plenty of room to spare for your gear. Whether you’re navigating exciting rapids or gliding smoothly...

redfeather.com

Maybe I'm crazy (and definitely ignorant) but what needs to happen to get the weight specs up? Are my wish-list specs too optimistic? Where are these optimum weight rating coming from? Yes, the answer is displacement. But how can we optimize that displacement to produce a good hull? (Uh-oh, I think I see where the draw to build your own starts to take root. . . )

Take the Rockstar from Redfeather: 320# top optimum? That's not a big boy tripper, that's a day boat.



Compared to the Swift P15 Solo:


I think that's why I'm frustrated with the Swift P15 Solo: The specs looked SO good. And then it fit like a NW solo or a Phoenix. Maybe it really is just the seat position, maybe getting it up to the shear will bring all the benefits and not result in a turtle-prone experience. Maybe a do-all solo tripper for a tall 350-400# optimum load is just too fine a hair to split with all of the other options out there. Maybe I just whine a lot. . .

I'm going to email Swift and ask if they will hang a seat from the gunwale. I know some manufactures with heavy tumblehome/shoulders won't because of the high bend stress involved.

 

[Alan Gage]

I would guess that "optimum load range" is one of those specs that needs to be taken with a grain of salt and I can certainly see how it would muddy the waters.

Here are the specs on the Raven. Maybe @memaquay could chime in as to how it performed at different loads and paddling conditions to help with frame of reference.

 

[tketcham]

I'm going to email Swift and ask if they will hang a seat from the gunwale.

We ordered our P13 with wood drops for kneeling that hung from the Carbon/Kevlar gunnels. No pods. We specified the clearance from the bottom of the canoe to the bottom of the seat and they cut the drops accordingly. Did a nice job of forming the drops to the gunnels. With the additional mid-height on the P15 you should be able to get the clearance you're wanting. One thing to add is that our individual weights are under 150 lbs so there may be other considerations.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

I like the way Clipper gives weight limits.

Caribou S

A classically designed solo canoe well suited for a wide range of paddling conditions. The Caribou S is Clipper's highest volume solo canoe.

www.clippercanoes.com

Take note of the 10" freeboard weight listed for the Solitude, which by my reckoning is pretty accurate and I suspect would translate to the Caribou S....

Solitude

The Solitude provides versatility for a wide range of solo paddlers. As with all Jensen designed canoes, it is fast and tracks well. It is harder to turn than the Packer but responds well when leaned.

www.clippercanoes.com

 

[memaquay]

I started out in the Osprey, which many people here are familiar with in one incarnation or the other. I ended up carrying chainsaws, gas, large food barrels, plus my own considerable bulk. Once overloaded, The Osprey became a dog in fast water, quite hard to turn. I think it would be pretty hard to overload the Raven. At my heaviest I was 230 lbs, plus chainsaws, canvas tents, tools, etc, probably a total load of around 350 pounds. It retained its agility in big open water and fast water. Plus it's 14 inches deep at the centre. I feel that is the perfect height for a work/solo canoe.

The Caribou has a similar size, but not as much rocker, and it is symmetrical. Those clipper canoes are nicely priced compared to the swifts, but you will not be getting a canoe that weighs in at the same poundage as a sack of groceries.

 

[NikonF5user]

Take the Rockstar from Redfeather: 320# top optimum? That's not a big boy tripper, that's a day boat.

I've been trying to find old Bell data about the Rockstar and loads - this is what's published:

Displacement:
2: WL: 170 lbs
3: WL: 250 lbs
4: WL: 340 lbs

 

[Moonman]

The Ashes Solo Trip looks like it might offer the specs you are looking for…but yeah you’d have to build it..

Statistics​

Length
Length Over All	15’0″	4.57 m
Length on the Waterline	14’4″	4.37 m
Beam
Beam Over All	33″	84 cm
Beam on the Waterline	30″	76 cm
Beam at the Gunnels	29″	73.5 cm
Rocker
Rocker – Aft	1″	2.5 cm
Rocker – Fore	2″	5 cm
Height
Height – Stern	15″	38 cm
Height – Midships	12″	30 cm
Height – Bow	18″	46 cm
Displacement
Displacement at 2.5″	160 lbs	73 kg
Displacement at 3.0″	210 lbs	95 kg

[th]
THE SOLO TRIP

[/th][th]
IMPERIAL

[/th][th]
METRIC

[/th]

 

[Steve in Idaho]

My idea of a linebacker solo:
15'6"-16'6"-ish length.
2" front rocker, symmetrical or 1.5" rear.
28/29" gunwale width
30-32" max width
29" width 3" waterline
10"+ seat gap to floor
19"/14"/16" shear, bring it all up an inch if the shoulder needs lifted to get the seat high enough.
280-290# 3" waterline

Did anyone mention the Dragonfly 15 yet? 6" short by your standard, but looks like it's in the ballpark.

• Length: 15'
• Gunwale Width: 27"
• Maximum Width: 30"
• Waterline Width: 28"
• Centre Depth: 14"
• Bow Height: 21"
• Stern Height: 18.5
• Bow Rocker: 2.5
• Stern Rocker: 2

• Optimum Load Range:180 - 360 lbs

 

[Tryin']

Did anyone mention the Dragonfly 15 yet? 6" short by your standard, but looks like it's in the ballpark.

• Length: 15'
• Gunwale Width: 27"
• Maximum Width: 30"
• Waterline Width: 28"
• Centre Depth: 14"
• Bow Height: 21"
• Stern Height: 18.5
• Bow Rocker: 2.5
• Stern Rocker: 2
• Optimum Load Range:180 - 360 lbs

Great suggestion! Buttttt,

That was LAST year's disappointment...
I was set to buy a copy of Jeremy Vore's at canoecopia and Bill told me that it would be great empty, but it wouldnt be right for a tripping load. Thats when he first hinted at the upcoming P15 Solo. He also asked if I had paddled a Starfire, which i still have not.

Apparently I need a:
Dragonfly 16
Polaris solo
SRT XL
P15 Solo Deep
River Encounter

The reality is, I could probably MAKE a lot of these boats work. Some mods here, a special order there... and it would be close enough. I mean, my first solo was an OT Tripper conversion and last year I took an Encounter down the Namekagon... Most all of them will float well enough. I guess I have been taken by the allure of "perfect" over "it'll do".

 

[Gamma1214]

I don't know if you're planning to attend WPSCR in Butler this year, but I could easily drag the Raven over so you could toss it & your gear in their pond.

 

[Tryin']

I don't know if you're planning to attend WPSCR in Butler this year, but I could easily drag the Raven over so you could toss it & your gear in their pond.

Hey, thats a great idea. I will have to see if I can get the schedules lined up.

 

[NikonF5user]

Great suggestion! Buttttt,

That was LAST year's disappointment...
I was set to buy a copy of Jeremy Vore's at canoecopia and Bill told me that it would be great empty, but it wouldnt be right for a tripping load. Thats when he first hinted at the upcoming P15 Solo. He also asked if I had paddled a Starfire, which i still have not.

Apparently I need a:
Dragonfly 16
Polaris solo
SRT XL
P15 Solo Deep
River Encounter

The reality is, I could probably MAKE a lot of these boats work. Some mods here, a special order there... and it would be close enough. I mean, my first solo was an OT Tripper conversion and last year I took an Encounter down the Namekagon... Most all of them will float well enough. I guess I have been taken by the allure of "perfect" over "it'll do".

I sadly found the StarFIRE a bit less than enticing when paddling one on the Yukon in '24 - which was particularly disconcerting as I absolutely love the WildFIRE - but for someone carrying a bigger load than I often do, the StarFIRE would be a great fit. There really is no other boat quite like the StarFIRE, and I am sure you can still get a new one from Swift.

I believe it may have already been mentioned, but Northstar will make the Polaris as a solo, and while I do not know for sure, I wouldn't be surprised if you could convince Redfeather to make you a solo Ursa Minor (which is the same as the old Bell Northstar, the ancestor of today's Northstar Polaris and my favorite-ever tandem). The Ursa Minor / Bell Northstar has an optimal load of 250-550, so it would easily handle anything a solo paddler could throw at it...

 

[Tryin']

I sadly found the StarFIRE a bit less than enticing when paddling one on the Yukon in '24 - which was particularly disconcerting as I absolutely love the WildFIRE - but for someone carrying a bigger load than I often do, the StarFIRE would be a great fit. There really is no other boat quite like the StarFIRE, and I am sure you can still get a new one from Swift.

I believe it may have already been mentioned, but Northstar will make the Polaris as a solo, and while I do not know for sure, I wouldn't be surprised if you could convince Redfeather to make you a solo Ursa Minor (which is the same as the old Bell Northstar, the ancestor of today's Northstar Polaris and my favorite-ever tandem). The Ursa Minor / Bell Northstar has an optimal load of 250-550, so it would easily handle anything a solo paddler could throw at it...

Yes, so far, the Polaris is the closest to ideal I have used. I would like it a bit narrower in the paddle station, as I do not find heeled-over paddling to be my strong suit. I will look at the Ursa Minor, great suggestion.

 

[Tryin']

Not to beat the dead horse, but I got a partial reply back from Swift.

Question:
[Snip]
Second, what seating options might be available beyond the sidewall pods and pack-style model that was at the show? The pods are much too low to be suitable for large or large-footed paddlers to kneel, and kneeling is obviously precluded in a pack-style arrangement. Will this craft be able to be ordered with conventional gunwale drops? If so, what are the approximate weight limits associated with those drops being utilized on aluminum, carbon/kevlar/ and full cherry gunwales? I have attached a picture from another Swift boat below for reference. [/snip]


Response:

[Snip]
Yesterday, I advised our sales team that we could install a seat using the wood drops shown in the pictures you provided. After further discussion with Bill Swift we decided to modify the pod height for the Prospector 15 Solo. [/snip]

 

[tketcham]

"Yesterday, I advised our sales team that we could install a seat using the wood drops shown in the pictures you provided. After further discussion with Bill Swift we decided to modify the pod height for the Prospector 15 Solo."

They may be concerned about weight bearing capacity of the Kevlar/carbon gunnels. It's easy enough to over-tighten the mounting bolts of the seat drops - the bolt head and washer will begin to crush the foam-filled gunwales - so having a fair amount of weight pulling down on the gunnels could be a problem. I wonder if Swift would consider laminating a reinforcement bracket where the seat drops would be installed to distribute the load better. It's always something.

 

[ABT]

Not to beat the dead horse, but I got a partial reply back from Swift.

Question:
[Snip]
Second, what seating options might be available beyond the sidewall pods and pack-style model that was at the show? The pods are much too low to be suitable for large or large-footed paddlers to kneel, and kneeling is obviously precluded in a pack-style arrangement. Will this craft be able to be ordered with conventional gunwale drops? If so, what are the approximate weight limits associated with those drops being utilized on aluminum, carbon/kevlar/ and full cherry gunwales? I have attached a picture from another Swift boat below for reference. [/snip]


Response:

[Snip]
Yesterday, I advised our sales team that we could install a seat using the wood drops shown in the pictures you provided. After further discussion with Bill Swift we decided to modify the pod height for the Prospector 15 Solo. [/snip]

Hmm I know the sales guys answer a lot of questions, and deal with a lot of people any given day, etc, but partial answers are always frustrating.

The P14 is available with cherry gunwales, can’t imagine the p15 won’t be as well (they may just not have done it yet). Darren at Rutabaga told me one time that Swift won’t hang seats from the Carbon/Kevlar gunwales for the reason already mentioned: its possible to crush the foam inside and the gunwales itself. But they hang seats from the cherry gunwales all the time, and I am positive you would be just fine with an expedition Kevlar boat and a hung seat from cherry gunwales. A lighter layup I can’t comment on. It would be nice if the aluminum was the same as the cherry since it’s a lot cheaper, but different manufacturers have different aluminum systems and I don’t know how capable/strong their aluminum gunwales are. Northstar I am confident would be fine but if Swift saves weight by using thinner aluminum etc, it could be a problem.

The Swift cherry drops, seat, and rails are all very solid and they can put extra screws in near the seat to make it even more so:



I am leery of the pods. I read a couple reviews somewhere (can’t find them now) where the pod popped off one side during use. Maybe they use a different method to secure them now as I believe the reviews were from a couple years ago and I haven’t seen anything negative since. Probably fine for most people, but as a bigger guy myself I’d prefer the security of a normal seat drop. Plus it’s more customizable if you want to change the height later.

 

[Tryin']

Yes, I don't think the integrated gunwales would support much weight hung. The tumblehome is another consideration. For instance, the Encounter cannot be shipped with a hung seat because of the extreme "bubble" on the sides of the hull. I have one, and even in the beefy Flex-Core layup, it has enough flex that I use the front thwart to balance on during entry/exit.



I have another set of questions out to them.

1. Are there practical weight limits associated with different seat mounting options? If so, could you advise what the practical limit for hung vs. pod mounting would be?

2. Are there practical weight limits associated with gunwale selection, if a hung seat is used?

3. What will the new pods' floor-to-seat gap be?


I saw in a couple pictures that the multi-height pods extend down close to the floor, directing a lot of the paddler weight stress into the stiffest part of the hull. Might be an option to distribute the weight of large paddlers.

 

[NikonF5user]

Darren at Rutabaga told me one time that Swift won’t hang seats from the Carbon/Kevlar gunwales for the reason already mentioned: its possible to crush the foam inside and the gunwales itself.

Swift can and sometimes will hang from the carbon gunwales (my WildFIRE has a seat hung from the carbon gunwales), but I do think they're leery of doing so. I am only speculating, but I would think that you could pull through the gunwales if you apply enough force. I've only had the WildFIRE since October, but so far she's holding up well. I plan on using that boat quite a bit this year - time will tell how well it holds up...

 

[ABT]

Swift can and sometimes will hang from the carbon gunwales (my WildFIRE has a seat hung from the carbon gunwales), but I do think they're leery of doing so. I am only speculating, but I would think that you could pull through the gunwales if you apply enough force. I've only had the WildFIRE since October, but so far she's holding up well. I plan on using that boat quite a bit this year - time will tell how well it holds up...

Interesting, your gunwales look different than the standard carbon Kevlar gunwales they have listed on their website. The website ones have diagonal yellow (presumably Kevlar) lines, whereas yours appear to be all black carbon. They change options and layups pretty often so it’s hard for me to keep up with it all. Could yours be solid carbon or have you seen the foam when you take the screws out? Wouldn’t surprise me either way but I’m curious.

I do see some solid black on the website but not under the available trim systems section oddly. It’s not super clear why some are solid black and others aren’t, or whether they’re the same or if there is a difference other than aesthetic.