Thoughts on Northstar Polaris or Northstar Boreas?

[tketcham]

As with many aging canoeists, we're considering replacing one of our canoes with something lighter. We have a 18.5' Wenonah Odyssey and a 16' Curtis Northstar and it's tough deciding which to replace because they're both great canoes that complement each other well, and, there's not that much difference in weight, about 3 pounds. But we could shave 13 to 20 pounds off the weight by updating to a lightweight layup.

So, I'm looking for opinions and perspectives on a Northstar Polaris to replace the Curtis Northstar or the Northstar Boreas to replace the Wenonah Odyssey.

Realistically we'd probably get more benefit from replacing our Curtis Northstar because we use it more often and it is a few pounds heavier than the Odyssey. I'm considering the Polaris as a replacement because of its narrow width (31" gunnel/34.5" max) for paddling efficiency and the useable rocker (2.5" bow/1.5" stern) for maneuvering in tight spaces and moving water. Other than the asymmetrical rocker, the Polaris sounds similar to the Curtis Northstar.

But I do wonder about the seaworthiness and stability of the Polaris in comparison to the Northstar. It has similar dimensions but I get the impression that the Polaris has a more rounded hull and is perhaps more tender. We both feel very comfortable being on the water in wind and waves with the Northstar, so is the Polaris comparably stable? [Added: We're both relatively light weight so should fit the Polaris well.]

As for the Northstar Boreas, it's nine inches shorter than the Odyssey and has some rocker so should be more maneuverable but still carry a load efficiently, making the Boreas a more versatile canoe. Perhaps we'd take it out and paddle it more than we do the Odyssey.

Any thoughts are appreciated!

PS: The other canoes I've considered are the Swift Keewaydin 16 (35 lbs in Kevlar layup; 33 lbs in carbon!) to replace the Curtis Northstar and the 17' 5" GRB Traveler II (35 lbs!) to replace the Odyssey.

 

[Tryin']

What size are the paddlers? The Polaris is a great hull, but people my size solo it.

 

[lowangle al]

Why not consider the Seliga? Although a little shorter it has about the same water line and stem hight as the Boreas so should paddle almost as well. It lacks the tumblehome of the Boreas but probably has better secondary stability. I think that 32 inch beam of the Boreas would make loading and unloading packs a lot harder. It will also make it harder to slide a spare paddle alongside the packs and give you less storage room in general.

The Seliga is slightly lighter, and with those traditional recurved stems has a classic look. They say the tumblehome on the Boreas makes it easier to solo from the center. I don't know why anyone would need to do this when you can paddle from the bow seat backwards and get less yaw and paddle closer to the centerline of the boat.

 

[ABT]

My Polaris is in IXP which is not common for this hull I think and I have wondered about the layup’s effect on the bottom shape, but mine is a much flatter bottom than I expected. Perhaps blacklite or starlite would be rounder? Stability is great for solo use, or solo with kids, and I have no problem standing in the middle. But for tandem use with two full grown men sitting in the narrower ends, it’s a bit tender I would say. Not terrible, and very doable, although a foot brace in the stern would help a lot. I’ve only paddled it that way a few times in short outings in very calm water, usually it’s paddled solo in rivers or with kids. And when you approach the “optimum maximum weight” listed on the NS website I felt like it did not feel nearly as fast as I expected or glide as well as it did with a lighter load. If you are pretty light paddlers I’d say it would probably be fine for day trips. Maneuverability is good for its length and rocker I think but it’s definitely a compromise hull, not as good at tracking as a lower rocker boat, and not as good at turning as a symmetrical rockered boat. I’ve wished it were a little better at both in different scenarios which actually probably means it’s about right for how I use it. I’ve been pretty happy with it.

 

[tketcham]

What size are the paddlers? The Polaris is a great hull, but people my size solo it.

Combined weight is around 285 lbs so I think we're a good fit for the Polaris. We have to add weight when we paddle the Odyssey on a day trip.

 

[tketcham]

Why not consider the Seliga?

I did consider the Seliga but I'm wanting a replacement for the Odyssey that has similar characteristics but more maneuverable. Your suggestion, though, got me to rethinking about the Northstar Northwind 17. I won't be paddling the canoe solo so the benefit of the shouldered tumblehome on the Boreas isn't as important.

 

[tketcham]

If you are pretty light paddlers I’d say it would probably be fine for day trips. Maneuverability is good for its length and rocker I think but it’s definitely a compromise hull, not as good at tracking as a lower rocker boat, and not as good at turning as a symmetrical rockered boat. I’ve wished it were a little better at both in different scenarios which actually probably means it’s about right for how I use it.

ABT, thank you for your impressions; very helpful. We're fairly lightweight paddlers so I think we'd be a good fit for the Polaris. The compromise you mention is kind of what I figured about the potential of the Polaris as a replacement for the Curtis Northstar. Having comparatively better tracking with the asymmetrical rocker of the Polaris wouldn't be a bad thing since we don't paddle rivers much above Class 1 whitewater. It's more about finding a lightweight version of the Northstar. If Hemlock Canoe Works had a version of their Eagle canoe that approached 40 lbs we'd probably go with that canoe.

 

[Tryin']

I did consider the Seliga but I'm wanting a replacement for the Odyssey that has similar characteristics but more maneuverable. Your suggestion, though, got me to rethinking about the Northstar Northwind 17. I won't be paddling the canoe solo so the benefit of the shouldered tumblehome on the Boreas isn't as important.

The NW17 is a great boat, but more than you may want given that you are also looking at the Polaris for tandem use. The NW17 will handle 2 large paddlers and a ton of gear, as evidenced by a trip we took in 2023. We had 570+ pounds of paddlers, a stuffed 60l barrel, and two full gear bags. Probably 700+ pounds total weight. Maybe you need that, maybe not.

Back to the Polaris, that would be a fun hull at your weight. The paddle stations will be short and narrow, but likely not a problem at your size.

Finally, I can personally vouch for the Northstar crew's willingness to chat about hulls and use cases. I would also recommend a trip to Canoecopia to see them and their hulls in person.

 

[ABT]

Combined weight is around 285 lbs so I think we're a good fit for the Polaris.

Back to the Polaris, that would be a fun hull at your weight. The paddle stations will be short and narrow, but likely not a problem at your size.

Yep, I agree with @Tryin’ and your assessment, now knowing the weight, the Polaris will be great for you. That’s about where I’m at with a kid or two and it feels very stable, and I agree the narrow stations will probably be a benefit at your size.

Finally, I can personally vouch for the Northstar crew's willingness to chat about hulls and use cases. I would also recommend a trip to Canoecopia to see them and their hulls in person.

I also recommend chatting with Northstar, they’ve been great every time I’ve spoken with them, have provided lots of good info, and everyone I've talked to there has been extremely generous with their time. It is always worth a phone call to them in my opinion. Unfortunately I can’t say I’ve had the same experience with every manufacturer. If you like Hemlock a lot I would also recommend giving Matt a call, he’s been great as well and I believe he told me they are coming out with some new layups in the next month or two so they may have a lighter option forthcoming (I can’t remember for sure though).

 

[tketcham]

The NW17 is a great boat, but more than you may want given that you are also looking at the Polaris for tandem use. The NW17 will handle 2 large paddlers and a ton of gear, as evidenced by a trip we took in 2023. We had 570+ pounds of paddlers, a stuffed 60l barrel, and two full gear bags. Probably 700+ pounds total weight. Maybe you need that, maybe not.

Our Odyssey can handle just about any load we put into it. Kitchen sink, 20 qt. cast iron Dutch oven, and a porcelain bathtub. Just kidding, but that makes for a big canoe for day trips. It's fast and seaworthy so it's great for big water conditions, but, it's not very maneuverable and gets blown around if not loaded up a bit. That's why I'm considering a shorter, more "nimble" and versatile tripping canoe like the Boreas or Northwind, thinking we'd probably take it out more often than the Odyssey for day trips. I may be kidding myself, though, and adding weight is easy with a dry bag (or bathtub) filled with water.

Back to the Polaris, that would be a fun hull at your weight. The paddle stations will be short and narrow, but likely not a problem at your size.

Yep, I agree with @Tryin’ and your assessment, now knowing the weight, the Polaris will be great for you. That’s about where I’m at with a kid or two and it feels very stable, and I agree the narrow stations will probably be a benefit at your size.

The Polaris seems like a reasonable replacement for our Curtis Northstar. Longer length but that has its advantages. I'm also looking twice at the Swift Keewaydin 16; somewhat similar to the Polaris and even lighter weight, 3 to 5 lbs less depending on layup. More money though, especially if I order it with their Epoxy Finish.

Given your advice to call Northstar I think I'll do that next week.

 

[gumpus]

Polaris is plenty stable for your needs. If you kneel it's crazy stable and if you sit it's also stable because Northstar mounts the seats LOW in their boats to make sure newbies aren't worried; I plan to raise the seats in mine. Polaris is also a surprisingly enjoyable "luxury" solo...almost as efficient as a Swift Shearwater solo.

Although I'm a fan of Swift I can't recommend the Kee16. My friend had one and we weren't terribly impressed with it and when he passed I chose not to buy it (gorgeous boat will all cherry trim). I think it's versatile and not at all horrible but just doesn't seem special like a Polaris. If a stealth Polaris isn't light enough for you, you might be a bit fussy.

For a big boat I recommend the NW18. Like Polaris it does everything very well and unlike the NW17 the 18 is happy with light loads like yours. It could be a realistic alternative to a Polaris for you.

 

[tketcham]

If a stealth Polaris isn't light enough for you, you might be a bit fussy.

Sure, at 31 lbs it's extremely lightweight, but spending $5,695 on a canoe might be a little TOO stealthy for my own good. If you know what I mean.

Interesting take on the Keewaydin 16. So you have a Polaris? If I order one I'll try it with the lower seat height and then if I think it's plenty stable I'll cut the drops and raise the seats a little at a time.

 

[gumpus]

$6k and no birdseye maple trim? If it makes you feel any better, rest assured I'd charge you much more if you wanted mine.

I like wood but the blacklite with aluminum trim seems like a great combo to me (strong and light but noisy compared to wood). I would not buy a stealth lay-up since it comes with too many warnings and I bump into stuff.

 

[tketcham]

I like wood but the blacklite with aluminum trim seems like a great combo to me (strong and light but noisy compared to wood).

Nice looking canoe! I think Northstar's Blacklite with wood trim is a handsome combination. I often get compliments on my Firebird. But aluminum trim is maintenance free and lighter. I was thinking of the Starlite layup to save a couple pounds more. I'm becoming a gram weenie in my old age.

 

[gumpus]

I think Starlight is a fine choice. I almost bought a Starlight Trillium with aluminum trim and kind of regret passing it up. I think the Starlight might be quieter than Blacklite when you bump it or lay a paddle on it.

 

[NikonF5user]

The Bell Northstar has long been my favorite tandem; I paddled one in Algonquin at some point and thought it was ideal for lake country portage trips. While I have been under the impression that the Polaris is basically the same boat with splayed-out ends to increase the length by 3", it's notable that Redfeather is making the original Northstar again, although now it is called the Ursa Minor). If you want an efficient-paddling lake tripping or day tripping tandem, I am not sure you can find a better boat. I can say definitively that it will carry over a week of gear for two with no issues, and is a joy to paddle while doing so.

The Polaris / Northstar / Ursa Minor is also quite narrow, so you can solo it relatively easily (Northstar makes an optional kneeling thwart, which I would recommend if you do go with the Polaris).

Not sure I would, but if I do ever buy a new lake-country tandem, it's almost certainly going to be either a Northstar Polaris or Redfeather Ursa Minor (especially if Redfeather would build one with a kneeling thwart for me)...

 

[gumpus]

The Bell Northstar has long been my favorite tandem; I paddled one in Algonquin at some point and thought it was ideal for lake country portage trips. While I have been under the impression that the Polaris is basically the same boat with splayed-out ends to increase the length by 3", it's notable that Redfeather is making the original Northstar again, although now it is called the Ursa Minor). If you want an efficient-paddling lake tripping or day tripping tandem, I am not sure you can find a better boat. I can say definitively that it will carry over a week of gear for two with no issues, and is a joy to paddle while doing so.

The Polaris / Northstar / Ursa Minor is also quite narrow, so you can solo it relatively easily (Northstar makes an optional kneeling thwart, which I would recommend if you do go with the Polaris).

Not sure I would, but if I do ever buy a new lake-country tandem, it's almost certainly going to be either a Northstar Polaris or Redfeather Ursa Minor (especially if Redfeather would build one with a kneeling thwart for me)...

Thanks for posting. I put a lot more miles on my Bell Northstar than my current Polaris. One dealer told me he sent the (Bell) Northstar hull to Northstar to use to create the mold and I thought he said they added a little length/volume in the middle. I think the Bell was more maneuverable and playful than the Polaris and the Polaris tracks and cruises better, feels even more stable and feels more windproof and the handling is still plenty cooperative. The differences could be my imagination. I've never been impressed with Northstar quality overall; some (most) boats are fine like my current Polaris but I had to return the first one I bought since the build quality was so bad (mold seam not even filled on a $4k boat? Seriously? And that was not my only bad experience). Personally I'll only buy a Northstar canpe that I can inspect and I'd be wide open to trying the Redfeather if I needed to replace the Polaris.

 

[tketcham]

If you want an efficient-paddling lake tripping or day tripping tandem, I am not sure you can find a better boat. I can say definitively that it will carry over a week of gear for two with no issues, and is a joy to paddle while doing so.

Thanks for the comments on the Bell Northstar! Although the Northstar Polaris isn't the exact same canoe, I would think that the performance characteristics would be very similar. I see that Oak Orchard has a used Bell Northstar for sale.

I've never been impressed with Northstar quality overall; some (most) boats are fine like my current Polaris but I had to return the first one I bought since the build quality was so bad (mold seam not even filled on a $4k boat? Seriously? And that was not my only bad experience). Personally I'll only buy a Northstar canpe that I can inspect and I'd be wide open to trying the Redfeather if I needed to replace the Polaris.

Despite the concerns I sometimes hear about Northstar's build quality, I'd still purchase one from a reliable dealer. My Firebird showed up with a somewhat rough interior (sharp resin folds from the vacuum bagging) I just sanded them down and ignore them. I'd consider a Redfeather canoe if they were closer but I can drive for an hour and a half and pick up a Northstar canoe from a good dealer.