When do you use float bags?

[Tsuga8]

Float bags are a little like PFDs and seat belts - you never know what day you might need them. But, unlike the latter two, I think there are arguably lots of conditions where float bags aren't necessary for open canoes. Paddling my local pond, I'm rarely out of swimming distance from shore. With a PFD and a neutrally buoyant boat, even if I just drift I'll be at shore within minutes. I paddle lots of swamps where I can stand up.

I think folks usually use them on open water where self-rescue is harder, or on moving water where a swamped boat risks wrapping itself or getting pinned.

What are your thresholds for when you bring and inflate the bags or switch to a boat that has bags?

I've been on what I'd call flat moving water (sub Class I) and hadn't thought twice about not having float bags. But I've started to wonder since seeing this. https://www.canoetripping.net/threa...ived-early-new-hemlock-srt.129181/post-166233

 

[recped]

I only use them when day paddling Class III.

When I'm tripping my boats are pretty full and the gear takes the place of float bags. I occasionally consider putting small float bags in the ends but I've never actually done that. My in field experience shows that with the gear secure the boat rides pretty high even when all empty space is filled with water, I don't dump very often but I do often complete a long run with water almost to the gunnels, if I stop to bail and remove most of the gear it's always surprising how little water is actually in the boat.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

If I'm in anything more than easy class 1 in a lightweight composite, I'll be bagged. I'll do easy class 2 in royalex without bags.... sometimes. The Millbrook is always bagged because (like all Millbrooks AFAIK) it has no built in flotation.

Bigger class 2 and up, I always have bags. Bags probably saved the Wildfire a couple weeks ago when I chose a line with a hidden rock that stopped me in a chute on a big class 2 stretch. 30" bags kept it riding pretty high while I swam.

I use the bags when I'm tripping class 2. If I don't have enough room for all the gear and the bags, some of the lighter gear gets stuffed under the bags before inflating to fill what's left in the cage. The more water that can be displaced - especially in the stems - the better.

When I install bags, I rig them so it's quick and easy to remove them and put them back in. I'm a big believer in bags on any technical moving water. They might add as much as 5 lbs to the boat, but I consider it cheap insurance - especially on the more expensive (or sometimes irreplaceable) boats. I'm bummed that the best bags I have (Mohawk) are no longer made. And it's a great shame that there aren't better US made bags available anymore. Best I can find now are the Palm bags, and availability in the US is spotty.

 

[scoutergriz]

Never used bags in anything under class III, and even then if the boat was full of gear I didn't use them, packs strapped around the thwarts and seats (with buckles, nort tied) did the job admirably. nowadays I avoid the rough stuff due to my back injury, about all I do is tie in an inner tube under the stern seat on the one boat I run with a motor, just to prevent its weight from taking the canoe to the bottom...
but I'm also an old fart, and when I started running WW bags were something in the distant future- we got by with trailer tubes strapped under the seats. after several uses a trailer tube can permanently stretch to be bigger than a new car tube because of it's thinner rubber.

 

[Tsuga8]

Thanks @recped , @scoutergriz and @Steve in Idaho . I've heard of and considered: inner tubes, pool floaties, exercise balls, and more. It's tempting considering the cost of real bags.

Steve your comments are particularly helpful - it's worth considering the hull material as well as the water. I'm usually poling on Class I at best, but my Millbrook Souhegan's bags seem pretty much at the end of their life, and I wonder if they'd really hold if push comes to shove. Given the boat's irreplaceable, I should probably bite the bullet on new bags.

Looks like Palm bags are mostly sold out of the UK? Harmony and NRS the only choices these days? I saw a reddit post boosting Fallline bags out of VA, which I'd never heard of, but I'm not really in the whitewater scene so my ignorance is vast in these subjects.

 

[kahel]

I always use the floats. (Canoë diffusion) They are an integral part of the boat, so to speak. It doesn't matter whether I'm just going “splashing around” for a day or going on a luggage trip lasting several days.

Just in case - regardless of whether it's flowing water with or without white water, as well as on standing water (lakes). Floats only have advantages in the event of capsizing.

. . .

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Looks like Palm bags are mostly sold out of the UK? Harmony and NRS the only choices these days? I saw a reddit post boosting Fallline bags out of VA, which I'd never heard of, but I'm not really in the whitewater scene so my ignorance is vast in these subjects.

I had forgotten about Fall Line. I guess I dismissed them as high priced overkill for my needs - only because I have the Mohawk bags in my WW canoe. I would definitely choose those for class 3 use.

The Palm bags are sometimes available on Amazon. I like them better than Harmony and NRS because they're cut to fit the shape of a canoe a little better. Also, the Harmony bags I've seen appear to be made of the same materials as the Gaia bags I originally had in the Coho, which didn't hold up well.

One thing I will point out about the Fall Line - the valves they use are far superior to anything I've seen on any other bags, and probably worth the cost of admission in the long run. I should just figure on going with that whenever I buy more.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

One more thing about Palm bags. On my oldest pair, the dump valves are wearing out. I have had to stop using them and seal them shut so they don't leak (much). I've been successful in getting a perfect seal in one, but not the other. That won't be a problem with those Fall Lines.

 

[gumpus]

As far as thresholds I think I'm long overdue to add float bags for flatwater paddling in winter purely to make boat recovery easier if you end up in 32-33 degree water.

 

[Tsuga8]

Yeah I have to say, I balk at the price of the Fall Line bags as long as I'm not running Class 3 stuff... tho I imagine you get what you pay for, it's hard to imagine I need that when folks used to make do with inner tubes.

Personally, I refuse to order anything from Amazon, so sounds like the Palms are out.

Thanks again for all the info!

 

[Will Derness]

I’m like Kahel, I always have a bag in the canoe. Most of my current paddling is flat water solo paddling so I outfit the canoe with small end bags and lacing. The bag also serves as a spare paddle support. For the infrequent whitewater trip the canoe will be completely bagged out except for the cockpit area.

 

[Tsuga8]

The size question is another one.... given that I don't currently run ww above Class II, is it worth getting the bigger bags? I don't really anticipate getting more into whitewater at this point.

 

[Black_Fly]

I’ve been on some big windy lakes that made me wish I had flotation. Some say packs of gear will suffice if strapped in, but Im skeptical. I do put dry bags inside my packs but they have little air in them.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

The size question is another one.... given that I don't currently run ww above Class II, is it worth getting the bigger bags? I don't really anticipate getting more into whitewater at this point.

30" bags seem to be plenty for the Wildfire. They were enough for the Coho when empty too (tested more than once ).

 

[recped]

I’ve been on some big windy lakes that made me wish I had flotation. Some say packs of gear will suffice if strapped in, but Im skeptical. I do put dry bags inside my packs but they have little air in them.

It's all about displacement, a 100 litre dry bag filled with gear will displace the same amount of water as a 100 litre air bag. Unless your gear bag is filled with sand or concrete there will be plenty of air to provide basic flotation.

 

[Tsuga8]

I’ve been on some big windy lakes that made me wish I had flotation. Some say packs of gear will suffice if strapped in, but Im skeptical. I do put dry bags inside my packs but they have little air in them.

It's all about displacement, a 100 litre dry bag filled with gear will displace the same amount of water as a 100 litre air bag. Unless your gear bag is filled with sand or concrete there will be plenty of air to provide basic flotation.

Theoretically I know that everything in my dry bags that sinks on its own detracts from the flotation my dry bags provide. Realistically I know that there're probably enough interstitial spaces to be more than net buoyant. But when things get dicey, one starts to wonder: is it really net buoyant? Did I really get those rolls done up right? Are those seems really going to hold?

I have some ultra lightweight dry sacks that are supposedly waterproof. I've been meaning to stuff them with towels and jump in the water with em, see how they actually do.

 

[Gamma1214]

I don't own a float bag although I do build (relatively small) float chambers into my canoes.