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Outer Vinyl Coating Of RoyalEx Canoe

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I bought a RoyalEx Canoe for $200 that is not in the best of shape. A large amount of the outer coating has coming off. It had no stickiness factor to it anymore. I did pull most of it off with ease. There is slight UV damage in some spots but luckily no major holes or cracks in the body of the canoe. The ABS is visible but not damaged significantly, I reiterate.

What is recommended to replace the vinyl coating and give support to the exposed ABS in the middle, sides of the canoe? I have posted in Facebook groups, done research, contacted the old manufacturers of RoyalEx.

I've gotten great feedback but I'd love to hear more advice before I put a solid plan together. I refuse to let this canoe go to the graveyard without using it.
 

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I'd love to hear more advice before I put a solid plan together.

I'll let others chime in with advice, but would just like to welcome you to site membership, MidwestCanoer. Feel free to keep asking questions or to post messages, photos and videos in our many canoe-related forums. In fact, pictures of the type and extent of the damage to your Royalex would probably help members give advice.
 
I'll let others chime in with advice, but would just like to welcome you to site membership, MidwestCanoer. Feel free to keep asking questions or to post messages, photos and videos in our many canoe-related forums. In fact, pictures of the type and extent of the damage to your Royalex would probably help members give advice.
I've been trying to upload but it's not letting me upload. I'm doing a youtube video about it that will show the full extent of the nakedness of the canoe. I will probably have it uploaded tonight.
 
And Thanks so much for the welcoming. My name is Tristan. I'm gonna change my name to my actual name haha
 
I'll let others chime in with advice, but would just like to welcome you to site membership, MidwestCanoer. Feel free to keep asking questions or to post messages, photos and videos in our many canoe-related forums. In fact, pictures of the type and extent of the damage to your Royalex would probably help members give advice.
Got the photos uploaded.
 
Got the photos uploaded.
If you click the picture (of a mountain) icon in the reply box, you can choose whether you want to upload the photos directly from your computer/phone to our server or, alternatively, link to the photos if they are hosted on an internet photo site. These methods will insert the photo(s) right into the text of your message wherever you want.
 
If you click the picture (of a mountain) icon in the reply box, you can choose whether you want to upload the photos directly from your computer/phone to our server or, alternatively, link to them if they are hosted on an internet photo site. These methods will insert the photo(s) right into the text of your message wherever you want.
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Tristan, you probably live not far from our member pblanc, who is experienced in advising on Royalex repair. If he doesn't reply to this thread, you can try reaching him by PM (called conversations in Xenforo), which is the envelope icon under the right side our our logo photo.
 
I'll have to do that for you. Let me know when you want to do it.

I bought a RoyalEx Canoe for $200 that is not in the best of shape. A large amount of the outer coating has coming off. It had no stickiness factor to it anymore. I did pull most of it off with ease. There is slight UV damage in some spots but luckily no major holes or cracks in the body of the canoe. The ABS is visible but not damaged significantly, I reiterate.

What is recommended to replace the vinyl coating and give support to the exposed ABS in the middle, sides of the canoe? I have posted in Facebook groups, done research, contacted the old manufacturers of RoyalEx.

I've gotten great feedback but I'd love to hear more advice before I put a solid plan together. I refuse to let this canoe go to the graveyard without using it.
I did upload a video on my youtube about what I've done, good and bad, so far. Feel free to let me know if y'all would like to see it.
 
Tristan, it is a Royalex canoe, so there is no fiberglass.

Royalex is a five layer ||||| sandwich; the outer layers are vinyl covering a layer of ABS (hard acrylonitrile butadiene styrene plastic), with a layer of foam as the core. The vinyl skin serves largely as a UV barrier.

The things at the ends are “skid plates”, those appear to be kevlar felt kit skid plates, attached with epoxy.

I have never peeled the vinyl skin off a Royalex canoe, and never even heard of it being done, wouldn’t have thought it possible at least as easily as that vinyl is peeling off, but too late now.

The ABS layer beneath the vinyl skin can be of varying thickness depending on where on the hull, usually thickest at the stems, and on how the manufacturer speced the Royalex sheets that used in that particular model canoe.

BTW, if you locate the Hull Identification Number (HIN), usually on the right stern below the outwale and post the number we can tell you more about the canoe; at least the manufacturer and year, maybe the model.

Some UV protection for the exposed ABS layer is a good idea, especially if the canoe is stored outside. A coat of topside or enamel paint will provide a UV barrier, until it too scrapes off, and it will.

I’d paint some epoxy on the exposed ABS layer where the vinyl skin has been peeled off before painting. A layer of epoxy would give you an opportunity to better seal the edges of any remaining vinyl skin to the ABS layer.

Just a couple random notes on boatwork. A pair of sawhorses would be beneficial; one at each end would hold the canoe more firmly, and at a better working height.

If the foam core is exposed, from sanding or gouges do not use an aggressive solvent like acetone to clean the canoe. Acetone will dissolve the foam core.

Hopefully Pblanc will chime in; vinyl skin peeled off in large sections is a new one for me.
 
Mike has already given you a rundown on just what Royalex is.

I have never seen a Royalex canoe give up its outer vinyl layer so readily and that I think is a cause for concern. I see that the canoe is a Dagger model. Royalex production was discontinued at the end of 2013 but Dagger ceased canoe production in 2003 so the boat is at least that old. Many whitewater open boaters (who tend to be hard on boats) who had paddled Royalex canoes since the 1970s felt that the quality of Royalex made a turn for the worse around 2000. A variety of reasons have been proposed. A company called Spartech took over production of Royalex from Uniroyal Corporation at that time. But apparently a number of OSHA mandates resulted in changes in formulation and production that might have had an adverse impact. Also, Royalex canoe sales were declining fairly dramatically in a mature market so manufacturers were not ordering Royalex sheet in advance and keeping an inventory, but would place orders based on immediate needs. So the Royalex did not have and opportunity to "cure" before molding. The Royalex sheet has to be heated in an oven before molding and that might result in loosening of the vinyl layer if it is imperfectly bonded to the ABS.

I have repaired or reoutfitted quite a few Royalex whitewater boats which often required removing or replacing internal vinyl D rings. I can say from experience that with Royalex produced after 2000 the vinyl layers of Royalex seemed much more fragile and easily damaged than for earlier production. But even so, I never experienced vinyl that stripped off as easily as on that boat. Which makes me concerned that the problem may have been with the original lamination process at production, or perhaps some type of chemical exposure. UV exposure will fade the vinyl layers of Royalex to a considerable extent over time but I have not seen photodegradation alone result in the vinyl layer loosening from the ABS substrate.

If the boat has spent a lot of time outdoors since the vinyl has stripped off, and the fading of the remaining red vinyl layer suggests it has, the exposed green ABS will have suffered at least some degree of damage from UV exposure. I would try to assess the structural integrity of the portions of the boat that had lost vinyl before you acquired it. You might be able to get an idea by pressing in firmly on the hull to see if there are any areas that are soft or "spongy". If the hull cracks when you do this, you are beating a dead horse and I probably wouldn't invest much more time and money on it.

Assuming the hull feels reasonably strong, I would plan to remove any and all vinyl that strips off easily. I would leave any that feels firmly attached but smooth the edges of the intact vinyl by sanding. You can try removing the vinyl with a fairly narrow wood chisel held at a low angle of attack. That will probably work better than a knife.

I have removed Kevlar felt skid plates from a number of Royalex canoes and sometimes it is surprisingly easy once you get it started. Sometimes it is not. Again, try using a wood chisel to get under the edges of the skid plates. Once you break the bond it might be easy to remove the skid plate in large sections. Any small remnants can then be sanded off.

I would then sand the whole hull and any remaining red vinyl with something like 120-150 grit paper. The purpose is to rough it up to give some hold for your paint. You can fill any deep gouges and dents with West System G flex epoxy moderately thickened with silica powder. G Flex can be easily sanded fair and flush after it has cured. Then wash the entire hull thoroughly using Dawn dishwashing detergent in hot water which will serve to remove any greases or oils, rinse very well, and give the whole hull a wipe down with denatured alcohol before painting.

For painting an entire hull like that I would plan to use a quality marine polyurethane paint. I have had good results with Interlux Brightsides one-part polyurethane although I now prefer Pettit's EasyPoxy. These paints are relatively easily applied using a foam roller but have someone go along behind you and your roller to tip out any surface irregularities with a disposable foam brush. You will need to apply at least two coats.

If you perceive that some sections of the hull have been weakened, it would be possibly to apply a blanket of 4 ounce/square yard or 6 ounce/square yard fiberglass using G Flex epoxy to bond it to the hull but the expense would be significant and I am not sure I would make that investment in view of concerns about the overall structural integrity of the hull.
 
I did find the Hull Identification Number: DA015132G494

As for the coating I can use. I have looked at Duralux Marine Enamel Paint. It will be stored in my garage when it's not in use, so the UV damage will be minimal once it's on. That until I hit shore lines and have to drag it up before I yoke it, of course.

I am going to be uploading more photos of some of the worry points. As I mentioned before, nothing goes completely through the body but there is some dry cracking where the vinyl had already flaked off before I bought it.

I have sanded a few of these spots down in the video and my thought process is to use fiberglass, resin, or anything else y'all would recommend to reinforce these areas since they are pretty dry.

Are the holes on the opposite end of the boat for anchors?
 

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Mike has already given you a rundown on just what Royalex is.

I have never seen a Royalex canoe give up its outer vinyl layer so readily and that I think is a cause for concern. I see that the canoe is a Dagger model. Royalex production was discontinued at the end of 2013 but Dagger ceased canoe production in 2003 so the boat is at least that old. Many whitewater open boaters (who tend to be hard on boats) who had paddled Royalex canoes since the 1970s felt that the quality of Royalex made a turn for the worse around 2000. A variety of reasons have been proposed. A company called Spartech took over production of Royalex from Uniroyal Corporation at that time. But apparently a number of OSHA mandates resulted in changes in formulation and production that might have had an adverse impact. Also, Royalex canoe sales were declining fairly dramatically in a mature market so manufacturers were not ordering Royalex sheet in advance and keeping an inventory, but would place orders based on immediate needs. So the Royalex did not have and opportunity to "cure" before molding. The Royalex sheet has to be heated in an oven before molding and that might result in loosening of the vinyl layer if it is imperfectly bonded to the ABS.

I have repaired or reoutfitted quite a few Royalex whitewater boats which often required removing or replacing internal vinyl D rings. I can say from experience that with Royalex produced after 2000 the vinyl layers of Royalex seemed much more fragile and easily damaged than for earlier production. But even so, I never experienced vinyl that stripped off as easily as on that boat. Which makes me concerned that the problem may have been with the original lamination process at production, or perhaps some type of chemical exposure. UV exposure will fade the vinyl layers of Royalex to a considerable extent over time but I have not seen photodegradation alone result in the vinyl layer loosening from the ABS substrate.

If the boat has spent a lot of time outdoors since the vinyl has stripped off, and the fading of the remaining red vinyl layer suggests it has, the exposed green ABS will have suffered at least some degree of damage from UV exposure. I would try to assess the structural integrity of the portions of the boat that had lost vinyl before you acquired it. You might be able to get an idea by pressing in firmly on the hull to see if there are any areas that are soft or "spongy". If the hull cracks when you do this, you are beating a dead horse and I probably wouldn't invest much more time and money on it.

Assuming the hull feels reasonably strong, I would plan to remove any and all vinyl that strips off easily. I would leave any that feels firmly attached but smooth the edges of the intact vinyl by sanding. You can try removing the vinyl with a fairly narrow wood chisel held at a low angle of attack. That will probably work better than a knife.

I have removed Kevlar felt skid plates from a number of Royalex canoes and sometimes it is surprisingly easy once you get it started. Sometimes it is not. Again, try using a wood chisel to get under the edges of the skid plates. Once you break the bond it might be easy to remove the skid plate in large sections. Any small remnants can then be sanded off.

I would then sand the whole hull and any remaining red vinyl with something like 120-150 grit paper. The purpose is to rough it up to give some hold for your paint. You can fill any deep gouges and dents with West System G flex epoxy moderately thickened with silica powder. G Flex can be easily sanded fair and flush after it has cured. Then wash the entire hull thoroughly using Dawn dishwashing detergent in hot water which will serve to remove any greases or oils, rinse very well, and give the whole hull a wipe down with denatured alcohol before painting.

For painting an entire hull like that I would plan to use a quality marine polyurethane paint. I have had good results with Interlux Brightsides one-part polyurethane although I now prefer Pettit's EasyPoxy. These paints are relatively easily applied using a foam roller but have someone go along behind you and your roller to tip out any surface irregularities with a disposable foam brush. You will need to apply at least two coats.

If you perceive that some sections of the hull have been weakened, it would be possibly to apply a blanket of 4 ounce/square yard or 6 ounce/square yard fiberglass using G Flex epoxy to bond it to the hull but the expense would be significant and I am not sure I would make that investment in view of concerns about the overall structural integrity of the hull.
I appreciate you taking the time to give such a great response. It's no wonder why people speak so highly of you on here and over Facebook groups.

I have already peeled off all of the loose vinyl. What you see in the photos and in the end of the video is the end results of all the peeling.

The hull feels strong but I have yet to really test the integrity of it in which you instructed. I will do that this afternoon and include it in the part two if my series on YouTube for everyone to see and learn from. I have posted photos of the trouble areas that I found after sanding.

The darker spots and strongly off color spots are where the vinyl had already peeled/chipped away from being in the sunlight before I bought it. It is now in my apartment garage with no UV exposure and with good ventilation.

In the first restoration video, I went over the ABS and parts of the vinyl with 220 grit sandpaper. I do have 120 grit as well so if you still recommend sanding with that even after the 220, I will do so.


For the care of the weaker points/ discolored areas, I was planning on using G Flex epoxy to fill in and strengthen. I will now use it in conjunction with silica powder.

If you feel that I am missing anything or mistook anything, feel free to correct me.
 
Yes, well it is a July 1994 build. Royalex quality was generally still good at that point in time. The boat looks like a 16' Dagger Legend. Not a bad boat at all, but better for river use than flat water use. The holes in the ends of the stems are not stock. They may have been drilled to facilitate anchoring internal flotation or some other unknown purpose.

It looks to me as if the ABS that was exposed has sustained considerable damage. If you want to go ahead and try to repair it you will first need to fill all of those holes that are showing exposed foam core with epoxy and again I would use G Flex epoxy thickened with some silica powder. I would then reinforce any damaged areas of hull with a layer of 6 ounce/square yard fiberglass and I would use unthickened G Flex to bond that on. You will probably need 16 ounces of G Flex resin and 16 ounces of G Flex hardener which can be purchase as what West System calls the 650-32 kit.

Even if you use the cheaper E fiberglass instead of the stronger S fiberglass the minimum expense in cloth, epoxy, paint, painting supplies is going to be minimally $175 and when you through in the incidental expenses for things like solvents, paper towels, sandpaper, masking tape, disposable gloves and such, you are looking at over $200 and will still not be certain about the longevity of this boat. I am not saying not to do it, but take that into consideration before you proceed.

If you do plan to proceed Sweet Composites is a good source for G Flex, silica powder and fiberglass fabrics.

 
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Yes, well it is a July 1994 build. Royalex quality was generally still good at that point in time. The boat looks like a 16' Dagger Legend. Not a bad boat at all, but better for river use than flat water use. The holes in the ends of the stems are not stock. They may have been drilled to facilitate anchoring internal flotation or some other unknown purpose.

It looks to me as if the ABS that was exposed has sustained considerable damage. If you want to go ahead and try to repair it you will first need to fill all of those holes that are showing exposed foam core with epoxy and again I would use G Flex epoxy thickened with some silica powder. I would then reinforce any damaged areas of hull with a layer of 6 ounce/square yard fiberglass and I would use unthickened G Flex to bond that on.

Even if you use the cheaper E fiberglass instead of the stronger S fiberglass the minimum expense in cloth, epoxy, paint, painting supplies is going to be minimally $175 and when you through in the incidental expenses for things like solvents, paper towels, sandpaper, masking tape, disposable gloves and such, you are looking at over $200 and will still not be certain about the longevity of this boat. I am not saying not to do it, but take that into consideration before you proceed.
What holes in particular are you talking about? The ones on the ends of the stems? Those are the only holes that I see that would likely reach the foam core. I'm certain that your eye sees something that I don't.

I only spent $200 on this boat. I knew that it was going to need some work. Didn't plan for all of this repair work, but even if I do spend another $200 on materials, it'll still be less expensive than buying a brand new canoe. I'd love to just get one season out of it even if it does cost $200 to $300 more.
 
I did find the Hull Identification Number: DA015132G494
I believe the third letter is a Q, not an O or 0.

If so, you can input the HIN here and get a lot of info:


The canoe was manufactured in July 1994 by Watermark Sports Inc. (which is probably Dagger Canoe) and the model is speculated to be a Reflection 15 or Passage. Measure the length and max width (beam) of the canoe to zero in on the model issue.

I, too, have never seen a Royalex canoe peeling vinyl. I would concur with coating the non-vinyl areas with epoxy before painting. This would give a protective abrasion layer over the ABS when the paint eventually scratches off. I have no experience with paints for Royalex, but Mike McCrea and pblanc have.

The big holes drilled in the stems of the canoe are a mystery to me. Something must have been attached to them. I suppose they would need to be plugged with something, which others might recommend.
 
Mike has already given you a rundown on just what Royalex is.

I have never seen a Royalex canoe give up its outer vinyl layer so readily and that I think is a cause for concern. I see that the canoe is a Dagger model. Royalex production was discontinued at the end of 2013 but Dagger ceased canoe production in 2003 so the boat is at least that old. Many whitewater open boaters (who tend to be hard on boats) who had paddled Royalex canoes since the 1970s felt that the quality of Royalex made a turn for the worse around 2000. A variety of reasons have been proposed. A company called Spartech took over production of Royalex from Uniroyal Corporation at that time. But apparently a number of OSHA mandates resulted in changes in formulation and production that might have had an adverse impact. Also, Royalex canoe sales were declining fairly dramatically in a mature market so manufacturers were not ordering Royalex sheet in advance and keeping an inventory, but would place orders based on immediate needs. So the Royalex did not have and opportunity to "cure" before molding. The Royalex sheet has to be heated in an oven before molding and that might result in loosening of the vinyl layer if it is imperfectly bonded to the ABS.

I have repaired or reoutfitted quite a few Royalex whitewater boats which often required removing or replacing internal vinyl D rings. I can say from experience that with Royalex produced after 2000 the vinyl layers of Royalex seemed much more fragile and easily damaged than for earlier production. But even so, I never experienced vinyl that stripped off as easily as on that boat. Which makes me concerned that the problem may have been with the original lamination process at production, or perhaps some type of chemical exposure. UV exposure will fade the vinyl layers of Royalex to a considerable extent over time but I have not seen photodegradation alone result in the vinyl layer loosening from the ABS substrate.

If the boat has spent a lot of time outdoors since the vinyl has stripped off, and the fading of the remaining red vinyl layer suggests it has, the exposed green ABS will have suffered at least some degree of damage from UV exposure. I would try to assess the structural integrity of the portions of the boat that had lost vinyl before you acquired it. You might be able to get an idea by pressing in firmly on the hull to see if there are any areas that are soft or "spongy". If the hull cracks when you do this, you are beating a dead horse and I probably wouldn't invest much more time and money on it.

Assuming the hull feels reasonably strong, I would plan to remove any and all vinyl that strips off easily. I would leave any that feels firmly attached but smooth the edges of the intact vinyl by sanding. You can try removing the vinyl with a fairly narrow wood chisel held at a low angle of attack. That will probably work better than a knife.

I have removed Kevlar felt skid plates from a number of Royalex canoes and sometimes it is surprisingly easy once you get it started. Sometimes it is not. Again, try using a wood chisel to get under the edges of the skid plates. Once you break the bond it might be easy to remove the skid plate in large sections. Any small remnants can then be sanded off.

I would then sand the whole hull and any remaining red vinyl with something like 120-150 grit paper. The purpose is to rough it up to give some hold for your paint. You can fill any deep gouges and dents with West System G flex epoxy moderately thickened with silica powder. G Flex can be easily sanded fair and flush after it has cured. Then wash the entire hull thoroughly using Dawn dishwashing detergent in hot water which will serve to remove any greases or oils, rinse very well, and give the whole hull a wipe down with denatured alcohol before painting.

For painting an entire hull like that I would plan to use a quality marine polyurethane paint. I have had good results with Interlux Brightsides one-part polyurethane although I now prefer Pettit's EasyPoxy. These paints are relatively easily applied using a foam roller but have someone go along behind you and your roller to tip out any surface irregularities with a disposable foam brush. You will need to apply at least two coats.

If you perceive that some sections of the hull have been weakened, it would be possibly to apply a blanket of 4 ounce/square yard or 6 ounce/square yard fiberglass using G Flex epoxy to bond it to the hull but the expense would be significant and I am not sure I would make that investment in view of concerns about the overall structural integrity of the hull.
How much S Fiberglass would you recommend purchasing for a project like this?
 
What holes in particular are you talking about? The ones on the ends of the stems? Those are the only holes that I see that would likely reach the foam core. I'm certain that your eye sees something that I don't

The big drilled holes in the stems are (old school were) a different way of drilling drain holes. Instead of drilling drain holes at the tips of the deck plates some folks drilled holes centered on the stems an inch or two below the tip. Ugly, but a wide enough hole there kept small debris from lodging under the deck plate tips and eventually falling out looking like a sodden mouse nest.

I wouldn’t plug them; you’ll want drain holes and they are already there. At most I might paint a little epoxy on the exposed foam core inside the holes.

“How much S Fiberglass would you recommend purchasing for a project like this?

If the bottom feel, stiff enough I’m not sure you need any. Laying large pieces, or even smaller partials, of glass fabric gets into trickier business, and additional expense, sanding, top coating, release treated peel ply if you think ahead.

If the bottom seems firm you should be able to make a quite serviceable canoe for less than $200, with some materials left over; although the Post-it Note ease of peeling the outer vinyl skin is a bit worrisome, or at least never-before-seen peculiar.

G/flex 650 is always handy to have around; with proper prep it sticks to dang near everything, and at a 50/50 mixing ratio is it is easy to eyeball pea sized amounts for niggling household repairs.

I’m kinda guessing here, never covered large expanses of peeled-vinyl exposed ABS, but if you don’t need to do any major fiberglass repairs I’d go straight G/flex 650 on the exposed ABS layers, and lap that a bit onto any intact vinyl. Not cheap, but I wouldn’t go cheap there, and 32oz should be enough, or more than enough.


G/flex epoxy, even G/flex mixed in some proportion with West 105/206, is your friend in Royalexy-flexy repairs. Note here below that West System recommends “Alcohol wipe, flame treat” for ABS (Royalex).

https://www.westsystem.com/specialty-epoxies/gflex-epoxy-adhesion-data/

The “flame treat” is nothing more than briefly running the blue tongue of a propane torch along the area immediately before using G/flex. It doesn’t even need to be hot, just a brief lick of blue flame.

What Pblanc said about painting with EZ-Pozy. Or, actually rolling and tipping with EZ-Poxy.

There are other, usually 2-part paints, that are better. And pricier. There are some topside paints, not quite as good, but a lot cheaper than EZ-poxy ($55 quart). Rustoleum Topside is $18 a quart. A quart is enough to lay down three coats, and the second and third coats will only look better when you have practice rolling and tipping out.

I would usually recommend selecting a paint that matches the hull color, but with the missing vinyl skin I dunno. Go crazy; maybe a Dazzle scheme.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage

Or something patriotic

https://pixels.com/featured/patriotic-canoe-2-red-white-blue-nikolyn-mcdonald.html

And, not to harp on it, but you will save yourself a lot of wasted time and effort with a set of sawhorses. Even cheap, compact folding sawhorses.

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Tool-Storage-Saw-Horses/N-5yc1vZc708

At some point you will need to turn the canoe right side up. That will not be much fun with it balanced wobbling precariously atop a dresser, needing a stepstool just to peer inside.

I am understandable curious about how it turns out, please keep us posted.
 
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