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Happy "Killer Rabbit" Attacks President Carter in His Paddle Boat (1979)! 🚣🏼♂️🐇
What can happen when you don't tie in gear in rapids
- Thread starter Glenn MacGrady
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Explain?
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Of course, what I meant was when the painter is tied up on the deck plate, not just one end secured there.
If you dump and you can't reach a painter your boat can get away from you.
If you want to put in or take out at a tricky spot and need the painter to hold your boat, you have a problem.
Does that help?
If you dump and you can't reach a painter your boat can get away from you.
If you want to put in or take out at a tricky spot and need the painter to hold your boat, you have a problem.
Does that help?
I would rather my line was secured on the deck with bungee. Easy to pull free, easy to put back. I usually grab the stern line first when hopping out, then pull the canoe up if I need the bow line. Philtrum, where do you propose it should be?
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Thanks Glenn, You're right my "daisy-chain" sure wouldn't be good on a river. I can see that now.
Since there is some talk about the possibility of getting caught by a line somehow, maybe it won't amiss to bring up an idea I stumbled on about how to have your sheath knife on your body.
Rather than the nearly traditional way of placing the sheath on a belt near one hip or the other, make a loop of 550 cord and pass it around your neck and under one armpit. I make a double loop through the sheath so it stays put in one place on the cord. The loop is completed with a couple of overhand knots one against the other. Knots are nice while you are deciding how long to make the loop.
Given that I almost always am wearing something over my shirt; vest, jacket or PFD, it's hard to find my knife and get to it if I'm wearing it on my belt. And too, returning the knife to the sheath is awkward with a good chance to cutting something on the way.
With this "knife on a clothesline" idea you need only find the cord on your chest, mine centers just about at my sternal notch, give the cord a tug and presto! there's your knife. Returning everything back is just the reverse. If in use, your knife/sheath should be inclined to move about too much, just tuck the tip of the sheath into a loop in your belt or a pocket.
I tried just a simple neck sheath but when I got to working on something I found it bothersome to have the sheath swing into the way of what I was working on.
Every time I get puffed up and think I've discovered something, I find that at least 427 other people were there ahead of me. Anybody else use this rig? And have you discovered any down sides to it?
Best Wishes, Rob
Since there is some talk about the possibility of getting caught by a line somehow, maybe it won't amiss to bring up an idea I stumbled on about how to have your sheath knife on your body.
Rather than the nearly traditional way of placing the sheath on a belt near one hip or the other, make a loop of 550 cord and pass it around your neck and under one armpit. I make a double loop through the sheath so it stays put in one place on the cord. The loop is completed with a couple of overhand knots one against the other. Knots are nice while you are deciding how long to make the loop.
Given that I almost always am wearing something over my shirt; vest, jacket or PFD, it's hard to find my knife and get to it if I'm wearing it on my belt. And too, returning the knife to the sheath is awkward with a good chance to cutting something on the way.
With this "knife on a clothesline" idea you need only find the cord on your chest, mine centers just about at my sternal notch, give the cord a tug and presto! there's your knife. Returning everything back is just the reverse. If in use, your knife/sheath should be inclined to move about too much, just tuck the tip of the sheath into a loop in your belt or a pocket.
I tried just a simple neck sheath but when I got to working on something I found it bothersome to have the sheath swing into the way of what I was working on.
Every time I get puffed up and think I've discovered something, I find that at least 427 other people were there ahead of me. Anybody else use this rig? And have you discovered any down sides to it?
Best Wishes, Rob
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Yes, a painter bungeed to the deck plate is easy to pull and easy to stow. But can you reach it when you need it? You might, but my arms aren't long enough.
In flatwater I bring the bowline back over the forward thwart and let it lie loose on the bottom. In whitewater I loop it over the forward thwart and tie a slipknot (quick-release knot) in such a way that when I pull the free end the line comes loose over the thwart. I've considered installing V-cleats or clam cleats (used for control lines in small sailboats) just under the gunwales but haven't done that yet. Also, in whitewater I leave the stern line loose in the hull near the stern. I want it to float free if I dump.
Interesting, I was always taught to keep ropes done up in whitewater to avoid entrapment issues in case of a dump.
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That's good advice, and I've given it myself. Painters in tandem boats should always be "done up." But for solos, if you can't reach the rope you can lose the boat. Which would you prefer, losing your boat or getting wrapped in the line? Since my painters float, I'll continue to do as I've described.
I always keep my lines done up in my solos too. Not sure what kinds of rivers you are running, but everything around here is pool and drop. If you dump, boat usually eddies out below rapids better than most people can do it. If your boat pins, well, I'd rather be clear of ropes then too.
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Whitewater in Wisconsin is typically pool-drop, but there are places where the Class II-III are continuous, up to a half-mile (Wolf River). There are also places where eddies are few and far between (e.g., parts of the Peshtigo). Yes, the boat usually eddies out, but where? And can you be sure you'll eddy out in the same place, or close enough? I'll take my chances on getting trapped in my floating painter. If I have to cut the painter, I'll be close enough to the boat to hang onto it, most likely with the remaining length of line.
Another reason to keep a painter handy is for tying up when there's a need to pull over but there isn't a place to get out of the boat. That's a fairly common occurrence when padding in eddyless fastwater and floodplains with no defined banks.
Another reason to keep a painter handy is for tying up when there's a need to pull over but there isn't a place to get out of the boat. That's a fairly common occurrence when padding in eddyless fastwater and floodplains with no defined banks.
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Does it at all make sense for a solo paddler to have the painter secured to the decks but leave a "tail" within reach that would unravel or be freed with a relatively easy tug?
My canoe has no deck plate either, so securing a rope has always been an awkward compromise for me, maybe time to start a new topic.
My canoe has no deck plate either, so securing a rope has always been an awkward compromise for me, maybe time to start a new topic.
I tie my gear to a line attached to the bow (along the lines of Oldie Moldy, I assume). they are a daisy chain spread out with at least 8' before the first pack and 4' to the next (around). I learned this at canoe instructors school in 1979 in Ontario. Now ideas change, new data on accidents and techniques are discovered, but it has worked for me. My thought has been that if the packs leave, they act as a drag and straighten the boat. I imagine that they could also cause the whole affair to snag as well, but not yet, though I have only had it tested out a couple of times during the intervening years (ahem...). One can do a canoe over canoe rescue fine or just clip off the end to give another person/boat when dragging the boat to shallows/shore. I have never been entrapped by rope and carry a knife, so I choose to live with that possibility and keep it in mind. (oh ya... I have succeeded in shaking out a dumped boat thus rigged and all it did was swing me around rather than slosh straight abeam... not recently, though. Shakeout is too much work and really just a bit of a stunt).
Yellowcanoe, I am really taken by your admission. We do stupid things. We don't have to explain or justify them, because... we do them and we hopefully survive, learn, are duly chastened or have the appropriate ego adjustment inserted in our self image and most importantly... nobody was there to see us! With me there always is and they love to remember.
Could be a good thread! We can all think to ourselves, "Well, I would never do that... I know better! And then someone can think the same of us!
Thanks for sharing.
Yellowcanoe, I am really taken by your admission. We do stupid things. We don't have to explain or justify them, because... we do them and we hopefully survive, learn, are duly chastened or have the appropriate ego adjustment inserted in our self image and most importantly... nobody was there to see us! With me there always is and they love to remember.
Could be a good thread! We can all think to ourselves, "Well, I would never do that... I know better! And then someone can think the same of us!
Thanks for sharing.
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Yes, this is a great idea. However, if your boat is, say, 14 feet long, the "tail" will still be a good 4 feet. If it's loose in the bottom of the boat - not wrapped around things like packs or paddles - it unravels just fine. I've found that tying a loose slip knot around the forward thwart leaves a few feet lying in a loose pile under the thwart. It's easy to reach and comes free with just a tug.
I tend to tie stuff in if we are running white water but I admit I am not obsessed with it. Usually I will make sure the big packs and wanigans are tied to a thwart or to the slotted inwales. If I lose an axe so be it. We can survive without an axe. Of course, the most important rule is to scout everything and don't run stuff that you are not very sure you can navigate successfully - at least if you are a long way from help. The loss of a canoe in some situations can be life threatening so it depends on the circumstances. I tend to be pretty conservative in certain circumstances. The incidents I have been involved in, except for one on the Horton, all involved running rapids in the Northeast along roads where the risks are lower and so you can be more aggressive.
I ran into a lovely young couple once on the St. John. They were quite young and also very competent. They were trained to tie in tight as a drum. The test to see if you had tied in correctly was to lift your boat upside down and shake it around. If any thing fell out you failed the test. I believe it was one of the camps they attended together as kids that taught them this way. They were a strong tandem tripping team I can tell you that. The St. John was in flood at the end of the trip that year and all of us were fortunate to make it home.
I ran into a lovely young couple once on the St. John. They were quite young and also very competent. They were trained to tie in tight as a drum. The test to see if you had tied in correctly was to lift your boat upside down and shake it around. If any thing fell out you failed the test. I believe it was one of the camps they attended together as kids that taught them this way. They were a strong tandem tripping team I can tell you that. The St. John was in flood at the end of the trip that year and all of us were fortunate to make it home.
Some further thoughts on painters, especially in whitewater:
Painters should be floating line and strong. If they float, there is much less chance of a dragging rope snagging.
Painters should be a high visibility color. This is so both swimmers and rescue boaters can see them when they are dragging.
Painters must be easy to detach by both a swimmer and a rescue boater, who may need to reach underneath an overturned hull to reach the painter. Common methods include stuffing under a deck bungee, stuffing under the lashing cords of of end float bags, tying off with quick release knots to thwarts. The problem with this third method is for the rescue boater; he may have trouble locating a thwart knot on an overturned boat in a rapid. It's easier for the rescue boater if he can just yank the painter easily free from the end of the overturned canoe.
Whitewater boats should have painters attached to grab loops drilled through the stems. The grab loops are helpful to a swimmer trying to tow his boat to shore and to a rescue boater who is trying to attach his rescue rope to the dumped canoe.
Your stern painter can be set up as a rescue line when you are the rescuer. Run your stern line from your stern grab loop to a jam cleat on the thwart or gunwale behind you at a place you can easily reach. To rescue a free boat, you unhook the stern line from the jam cleat, run the line through the grab loop of the free boat, and then re-attach the line to the jam cleat. You can then tow the free boat. If you need to release the towed boat for your safety, you just reach back and release your stern line from the jam cleat.
In flatwater, especially on day trips in an empty boat, I often just let my painters stay uncoiled on the bottom near the ends.
Painters should be floating line and strong. If they float, there is much less chance of a dragging rope snagging.
Painters should be a high visibility color. This is so both swimmers and rescue boaters can see them when they are dragging.
Painters must be easy to detach by both a swimmer and a rescue boater, who may need to reach underneath an overturned hull to reach the painter. Common methods include stuffing under a deck bungee, stuffing under the lashing cords of of end float bags, tying off with quick release knots to thwarts. The problem with this third method is for the rescue boater; he may have trouble locating a thwart knot on an overturned boat in a rapid. It's easier for the rescue boater if he can just yank the painter easily free from the end of the overturned canoe.
Whitewater boats should have painters attached to grab loops drilled through the stems. The grab loops are helpful to a swimmer trying to tow his boat to shore and to a rescue boater who is trying to attach his rescue rope to the dumped canoe.
Your stern painter can be set up as a rescue line when you are the rescuer. Run your stern line from your stern grab loop to a jam cleat on the thwart or gunwale behind you at a place you can easily reach. To rescue a free boat, you unhook the stern line from the jam cleat, run the line through the grab loop of the free boat, and then re-attach the line to the jam cleat. You can then tow the free boat. If you need to release the towed boat for your safety, you just reach back and release your stern line from the jam cleat.
In flatwater, especially on day trips in an empty boat, I often just let my painters stay uncoiled on the bottom near the ends.
