Throwing line over a tree limb, and a recent revelation

[Odyssey]

Way easier than swinging that dang weight between my legs.

where do I begin

 

[Odyssey]

Never heard of the PCT (Pacific Crest Trail) method. Interesting use of a twig "toggle".

https://i0.wp.com/theultimatehang.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2013/03/Hanging-A-Bear-Bag.png

 

[Guest]

Test throws with golf ball and tennis ball

I had a chance to spend some time in the yard practicing with a golf ball and tennis ball throw line using the two techniques shown in the video (1:20 – 2:15)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFyu8rgRHAQ

We have a couple of decent limbs overhanging the yard, some easy and largely bare of small branches, other deeper in the woods some quite occluded. The ground is also thick with fallen leaves and sticks, so after the first throw, when I sent a bunch of debris aloft along with the line, I remembered to go get something on which to flake out the line (100 feet of 3mm cord, which is the ridgeline size on tarps).

I thought about using an empty dry bag as a clean surface to flake out the line (meh, straps and buckles) and realized that the back side of the fake grass matt I use in the entry vestibule was perfect, it’s meant to lie on the ground. That clean flake surface goes in the bag of tricks. Oh, yeah, the flake out surface goes best out front, just a few feet back of the limb, so the line is playing out almost straight up.

I tried the between the legs two handed \// style throw using the golf ball first. And went back into the shop and installed a larger eye screw in the golf ball; the ball, dangling at the bottom of the vee needs to be able to slide through the ring easily when doubled up.

That took some practice and I had to run back into the shop and watch that segment of the video a couple of times to see what I was doing wrong. Ahhhh, duck your hands down to groin level on the backswing, lest you smack your coccyx with a golf ball on the backswing. Not the most intuitive movement, but a lesson quickly learned.

But it worked. And it worked very well once I got the hang of it. I think squaring up to the target limb and throwing the initial 9 feet of line with both hands really helps with aim, and loft. As does having a more vertical trajectory with the ball and line, especially with a smaller target area or other limbs/trees in the way nearby.

The one handed throw with the tennis ball was less successful, for several reasons. I had go watch the motion on that throw. Note the weird (also un-natural) arm thrust motion when creating the pendulum.

Also note that the line is again doubled up (maybe tripled up, can’t tell?) through ring, so the thrower is casting several extra feet of line aloft along with the ball.

With just the slit on the tennis ball I could only throw what single length line I had in hand, but once I got the weird arm motion down better it was still pretty effective, more so when I added some pebble weight inside the tennis ball slit.

I need to add a ring to the tennis ball and try using that, but I’m kinda stumped. I could use a small eye bolt, with a washer and nut inside the ball, but left in place that would preclude playing catch or fetch. Although the ring might be handy on the tennis ball as a place to clip a tarp line.

Hmmm, I’m thinking a short webbing loop, knotted inside a hole drilled in the slit tennis ball, with a small carabineer attached to the webbing loop for the line to glide through. I need more practice (which was kinda fun) with those weird two arm motions so they become more muscle memory; I won’t be able to run back in and watch the video out in the woods.

 

[Chip]

I live on a wooded lot where I had 80' trees growing within 20' of the house. Since 2008, I've removed a dozen of those, plus a few others for friends.There being no landing zone into which the tree could be felled, I climbed the trees and took them down from the top in 6' - 10' sections. At first, to get started with line installation I used a stout fishing rod with 40-lb line and an ounce weight. My shoulder is as old as the rest of me, so I sure wasn't going to throw anything 60' up. With the rod, it took many tries to get the line where I wanted it, but it worked. Then, my nice, light, basswood, canoeing pole broke, and became the backbone for a big sling shot of my own creation. The foot of the 8' long sling-shot rests on the ground. The throwing weight (Mike's bull's testacle) fits into a pocket fashioned from a piece of old dry bag. The sling is powered by pieces of stretchy exercise tubing. This thing will fire the throw weight clear over most trees, and can be accurately aimed. The challenge in using it is how much power to use for the shot--how far to pull back the sling. So, it is a relatively cool toy with which to play, but not so germane to this discussion, since it's not going into the canoe to go camping!

Perhaps though, my system of line storage will be useful to rope slingers. The system consists of, a five-gallon bucket. Ta-dah! That (bucket) is something I usually do pack on canoe trips. Start with the tail end of the rope, and do attach it to something so it doesn't fly off with the rest of the rope upon deployment. Then just spool your line into the bucket. Spool isn't the right word--just get the line into the bucket. Then do whatever you need to with the free end--tie on your golf ball, water bottle, stick or what have you--and proceed with installation. The line will play out of the bucket in reverse of how you put it in: LIFO, in accounting terms (Last in, First out). It always amazes me how a rope on the ground becomes tangled in sticks, grass, pine cones, or whatever else is laying there. From the bucket, the line plays out well above the ground clutter. If, by some fluke, your first attempt isn't perfect, retrieve the line and just feed it hand-over-hand into the bucket, and you are ready to try again.

 

[Guest]

Perhaps though, my system of line storage will be useful to rope slingers. The system consists of, a five-gallon bucket. Ta-dah! That (bucket) is something I usually do pack on canoe trips. Start with the tail end of the rope, and do attach it to something so it doesn't fly off with the rest of the rope upon deployment. Then just spool your line into the bucket. Spool isn't the right word--just get the line into the bucket. Then do whatever you need to with the free end--tie on your golf ball, water bottle, stick or what have you--and proceed with installation. The line will play out of the bucket in reverse of how you put it in: LIFO, in accounting terms (Last in, First out). It always amazes me how a rope on the ground becomes tangled in sticks, grass, pine cones, or whatever else is laying there. From the bucket, the line plays out well above the ground clutter. If, by some fluke, your first attempt isn't perfect, retrieve the line and just feed it hand-over-hand into the bucket, and you are ready to try again.

Chip, I really like the bucket idea for flaking out the line, I almost always have a plastic bucket or at least a (wider) collapsible pail. I’ll give that a go next round of yard practice.

I climbed the trees and took them down from the top in 6' - 10' sections. At first, to get started with line installation I used a stout fishing rod with 40-lb line and an ounce weight. My shoulder is as old as the rest of me, so I sure wasn't going to throw anything 60' up. With the rod, it took many tries to get the line where I wanted it, but it worked. Then, my nice, light, basswood, canoeing pole broke, and became the backbone for a big sling shot of my own creation. The foot of the 8' long sling-shot rests on the ground. The throwing weight (Mike's bull's testacle) fits into a pocket fashioned from a piece of old dry bag. The sling is powered by pieces of stretchy exercise tubing. This thing will fire the throw weight clear over most trees, and can be accurately aimed. The challenge in using it is how much power to use for the shot--how far to pull back the sling. So, it is a relatively cool toy with which to play, but not so germane to this discussion, since it's not going into the canoe to go camping!

Ain’t no way I am climbing trees and running a chainsaw, and I no longer carry a fishing pole on trips.

Nor a giant slingshot. We had a three-person slingshot called “The Funnelator” , two 3’ long poles with six feet of looped flexible tubing attached to a funnel at the apex of the pulled back V.

Two guys holding the poles aloft while the shooter s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d the tubing and funnel back near ground level. It would fire a sizeable weight 100 yard on a line drive. We once tried playing catch with a softball, and the velocity would knock the gloved receiver off their feet.

Water balloons were fun, and even rotten fruit would bust down branches.

I realized a couple things while practicing throws out in the yard. I do at times throw limb lines underhanded, especially in the past when throwing some unwieldy chunk of wood or too-heavy but perfectly shaped tie-to rock on high to set a food line. Although even sidearm one-hand I had not used the peculiar Arborist arm motion to get an aimed pendulum swing going. I think maybe the mechanism/motion is important to that throwing technique.

Admittedly, with high tosses I have sometimes resorted to doing a full twirling windmill before letting go. Which I know going in rarely ends well in terms of accuracy. Run away, run away!

Nowadays I’m not (usually) hanging food; most of my tosses are for large (high) tarp centerlines or other stuff, 15 – 20 feet off the ground. At that distance, especially with some desired tarp orientation, that loop over limb height is less difficult to achieve, but more specific about exactly where and how the line loops over.

Another mistake I have often (eh, perhaps usually) made is holding some extra line coiled loosely in my other hand, which pulls the ball laterally off target from where I am aiming, and now seems far less effective than flaking it the line (cleanly) on the ground (or in a bucket!) out directly in front.

I also realized that I have seen tripping friends, some far more experienced than me, throw lines hundreds of times, but have never seen (or noticed) either of those Arborist techniques before, even the doubled up rope-through-ring peculiar sidearm motion. And I surely would have noticed the WTF-are-you-doing betwixt the legs style.

It seems strange that those throwing techniques – debris clean flake out, pendulum aiming swing, throwing doubled or tripled up line aloft along with the weight, etc – are known and practiced in the arborist community – yet not practiced in the tripping world at large.

Trippers throw line over limb for hanging food, tarp lines, other oddball stuff as often as anyone else. Even with short practice I have to believe there is something to learning those techniques.

Back to the yard practicing as soon as I make a Mark II tennis ball.

 

[Guest]

the reason for running a rope high and horizontal between trees and throwing a rope over the center of that rope is that any critter can easily climb out a branch to your bag, but a rope not so much.

 

[sweeper]

I don't about that the squirrels have a very /easy time running the wires around here.

https://www.treehugger.com/natural-...ourses-reward-clever-squirrels-with-food.html

 

[Guest]

Your right sweeper. We had squirrels get I bags 3 times on scout trips. One was found still in the bag when it was brought down--ever hear boys scream like girls? there are also pictures of bears going out on the horizontal rope. but they usually pull it down before getting to the middle. Some have also figured out to just attack the rope where it's tied to the tree.-smart buggers.

 

[Pringles]

I want to try using those techniques for bear bagging. I usually do ok getting the rope over the bear poles in Yellowstone, but sometimes it takes me quite a while. On one trip, a fellow hiker was videoing parts of the hike. He started videoing me trying to throw the rope over the pole. Things didn’t go so well. I nearly took out his knee (not on purpose). I tried again, and it might have been worse. Performance anxiety, I guess. The third hiker graciously came over, grabbed my rock bag and my rope and arced the bag over the pole. For the rest of the trip I just handed him my rope and rock bag. First time, every time. I, on the other hand, need to practice this. Me thinks I should wear a hard hat, though.

 

[Guest]

A quicker way to hang besides the two-tree method can be to use just one tree with a long rope, maybe 100'. The ground and a tall tree form two sides of a right-angled triangle and the pack is tied onto the rope forming the triangle's third side. The rope is pulled tight, raising the pack off the ground to the right height and location, then the rope is tied off onto a smaller tree.

We had a playrope in the yard similar to that for years. We had a bunch of rope swings and such. One was 100 feet of thick rope passed through a forked pin oak trunk 30 feet off the ground. One end was looped over the fork and anchored near the base of the oak, and the other end drooped free in a diagonal arc, 70ish feet of slack rope curving down and tied off a couple feet up another tree. We left the drooped portion of line suspended a several feet off the ground, mostly so I could mow the lawn underneath.

It was by far the most dangerous plaything in the yard; one kid would grab the sagged rope with both hands and walk back along the line nearer the tree, reaching up as high as they could. The other kid(s) would then take up the slack, and walking/hauling back as far as they could.

The hangee would rise high in the air diagonally, pulled up and away from the oak. A considerable (scary) distance, especially if there was more than one kid on the pull side. They called it “The Elevator”.

We called it “The lawsuit waiting to happen”, although they never did keep anyone aloft until their arms gave out (close), and only line dropped a couple of kids on the way down.

We convinced a number of adult friends to give it a try; they were less trusting than the younguns and wanted down quicker.

 

[jefffski]

Like a girl.

 

[jefffski]

Throwing ropes over tree branches on the west coast at sea level (we paddle on the ocean) is a nightmare. Just wandering thrugh the forest is difficult. Then comes the problem of finding a branch that is low enough to reach. If there is one, it's often cluttered with other foliage so a rope will not easily pass over it and down the other side. Finally, on these big trees, low branches are often moss covered (i.e. rotten) or just too thin to hold the weight of a food bag.

 

[Guest]

DIY Throw Ball, AKA Mark II tennis ball.

I need to add a ring to the tennis ball and try using that, but I’m kinda stumped. I could use a small eye bolt, with a washer and nut inside the ball, but left in place that would preclude playing catch or fetch. Although the ring might be handy on the tennis ball as a place to clip a tarp line.

Hmmm, I’m thinking a short webbing loop, knotted inside a hole drilled in the slit tennis ball, with a small carabineer attached to the webbing loop for the line to glide through.

Well dang, that was so simple, easy and cheap I made a couple. I cut usual 1 ½” long slit, so I can squeeze open the tennis ball like a 1950’s lunch money change purse and add some pebbles for weight if needed.

PC071394 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Drill a hole through the tennis ball and push a six inch loop of thin (½” wide) webbing through the hole via the slit. Knot the bitter ends of the webbing outside the slit and pulled the knot into the ball, leaving a 1” webbing loop hanging outside the ball. A loop of rope knotted inside the ball would do just as well

I played with the drilled hole size a bit, wanting the webbing & knot held firmly inside the tennis ball, but I also wanted to be able to (forcefully) pull the knot through the hole to free the line if the ball itself got hung up or wedged in a forked limb on an errant throw.

A small carabineer through the loops serves nicely as the ring for the doubled or tripled up throwing line to glide through using the underhand Arborist technique. Plus it’s easy to clip on and off, so I still have a slit tennis ball for tarp pole ends or playing catch/fetch.

PC071403 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr


Maybe not so much fetch; my previous slit tennis ball throw weights often ended up dog destroyed on past canine companion trips. Hard to resist dog play when I have a tennis ball.

Or tarp fetch. A tennis ball tossed up and rolling along the slant of a tarp is a great fetch game, that becomes canine catch as the dog tracks the ball rolling across the tarp and snares it as it drops off the other side. Tons of fun provided you don’t mind dog ball slobber on the tarp.

Some more practice throwing in the yard and I am like the Mark II tennis ball lots more than the golf ball and eye screw.

I am making a slit tennis ball and loop to put in each of our tarp stuff bags, and maybe making some as stocking stuffers for tripper friends (Glo-wire line not included).

I foresee more practice out in the yard when I have the boys back for Christmas. Maybe I should perfect my throwing technique in secret before then.

 

[ATwaterGA]

Tie a fairly heavy carabiner to your rope. Works very well.

 

[LanceR]

This is the first time I've seen this thread. I've used throwlines for a variety of things from climbing trees and rocks to setting hunting tree stands. I don't think I've seen the modified tennis ball idea before but like that it could be made a number of ways and is a multitasker, always a good thing on the trail. Poor Rosie, our coonhound, is going to lose a tennis ball....

As a practical matter while using a carabiner instead of a knot to attach the throwline to the ball increases the chance of it hanging up in the tree I suspect that the chance is low enough to not matter very much for most canoe tripping or backpacking. If you are throwing your weight into a branch that looks like a wad of barbed wire I suspect that you'd better tie the weight on....

In line with wanting stuff to multitask as much as possible I'd note that there are a whole bunch of small lightweight carabiners made for climbing that are strong enough for life safety work or for un-pinning a canoe that weigh and cost very little. For example, the Mad Rock Ultra Light in either straight or bent wire gate versions weighs just 1.1 oz (31 G) and costs $6 USD or less. And there are many more similar carabiners although the price may be higher.

Nancy hangs her hammock with small climbing biners and I keep a few on the top handle of my pack for quickly rigging stuff like hanging things, mechanical advantage pulling systems etc. I already tote a hank of climbing accessory cord for utility cord so it would be silly to not have a few lightweight carabiners along.

For those who want a turn-key throwline setup just do an online search for "arborist throw bag" or "arborist throwline kit".....

Best regards to all.


Lance

 

[Iskweo]

when I was seven I got into a heap of trouble by throwing a rock at a sissy boy. Hit him in the ear and required stitches
The throw was overhand . I am a girl


Hahahaha...I can just picture that.

 

[Iskweo]

I tie my food barrel to a tree with a pot on top as a warning device. It's best to have a clear field of fire between the tent and the barrel. Make it tough for critters to take and give them some incentive not too. I am good with firing a banger at them to start, because I would rather sleep than deal with having to shoot anything. If one is really nervous about it I suppose you could use one of those bear fences to keep animals out too. There are so many better ways than trying to hang food in a tree.

Not eating in, or keeping food in your tent is a pretty good plan too.

If you need to get your tarp higher I suppose you could make a bipod out of a couple of long poles and use it to prop your ridgeline up, like the poles for an old style outfitter tent. I dont tarp much so I dont have a lot of issues that way. If I do tarp, I like to use a pole as a ridgeline, especially if I use that site often. Sometimes I even take some long nails and use them to put stuff the way I want it. Where I do like a bit of tarp is in my kitchen area in case it is raining when I get hungry.

 

[Guest]

If you need to get your tarp higher I suppose you could make a bipod out of a couple of long poles and use it to prop your ridgeline up, like the poles for an old style outfitter tent. I dont tarp much so I dont have a lot of issues that way. If I do tarp, I like to use a pole as a ridgeline, especially if I use that site often.

Back when we used a blue poly tarp we had a couple of nestled poles and with a large group-sized poly tarp used them as a 10 or 12 foot tall center pole under a ridgeline. The difficulty was that when a wind gust lofted the tarp the pole would some crashing down with unfortunate results (clonked a friend square on the noggin once).

The solution was to embed an eye screw in the pole end, and hook a small beener through the eye. With the beener clipped to the ridgeline the pole could be slid under the tarp and stay vertical even if the tarp lofted.

Not an issue even with a big CCS Tundra tarp, the sil-nylon can be tensioned (and re-tensioned) near drum tight, but we still use that pole, eye screw and beener solution at home.

We have a couple of outdoor clotheslines that tie into place over the deck or between trees when needed, used for drying clothes and gear or spring cleaning beating the dust out of rugs. Those clotheslines are at about eye-level so it is easy to hang stuff to dry, but will sag lower and lower under wet weight.

Beenered pole to the line sag rescue again.

 

[Odyssey]

I'm liking my blue barrel days...and nights. I have hung it (30 L), but no longer do. Jangly ss carabiners are my early warning device of choice. I also tie the barrel to the tree. And there's the bear bangers too, although I haven't had cause to deploy them yet. I suppose my last line of defence is tripping with an awful choice of food and being a lousy cook. Lol.
I dunno. Do black bears like dehydrated panang curry? Eating weirdly might have it's benefits.
As far as the ridge rope height goes I'm okay with my rope tethered ss carabiner throw, although I suffer from blurred vision and dizziness ever since an aggressive chick plinked me with a rock when I was a kid. Lol. Being of a physically compact nature I don't need the ridgeline terribly high, 6' will do nicely. That means an easy underhanded throw, just like, you know*, and if need be I reach up with my paddle blade and coax the rope up higher, just to find that perfect branch.

*...like one of my Champion softball pitching nieces. In my dreams.

 

[Guest]

I'm liking my blue barrel days...and nights. I have hung it (30 L), but no longer do. Jangly ss carabiners are my early warning device of choice. I also tie the barrel to the tree.

Same here; I do love a barrel or other hard-side, leak-proof, nibble-proof container.

I will hang the garbage bag for convenience while I am present in camp, just to keep it a little protected from rodentia. Not an Ursidae hang; just far enough out and up to keep the squirrels and chipmunks challenged, so I don’t turn around to find my trash scattered far and wide.

Being of a physically compact nature I don't need the ridgeline terribly high, 6' will do nicely. That means an easy underhanded throw, just like, you know, and if need be I reach up with my paddle blade and coax the rope up higher, just to find that perfect branch.

Solo, or even with a companion, I don’t need much more ridgeline headroom than an easy toss will provide, 8’ or so is perfect and still provides some “roof” height at the edges for a chair or gear storage, and the driven-rain side can easily be dropped closer to the ground if necessary. That always seems to be the lake view side, but I’d rather be dry than scenic.

But on group trips, with a big arsed tarp, a higher peak is more accommodating, especially if you need to drop one side.

Not so much for the headroom peak, I have no 10 or 12 foot tall companions, but for more height along the sides. Stuffing a half dozen people under a big tarp it is helpful to have the drainage sloped sides tall enough to back a chair under without the tarp resting on your head, and peaked tall enough that the side entries allow two people to come and go easily without a lot of “After you”, “No, I insist”, “Age before beauty”.

Note: The person coming in out of the rain has right of way. Unless the exitee is experiencing Spam and hot pepper gastrointestinal difficulties.