The Elusive Carbon Beavertail

[yknpdlr]

That is heavy for a carbon paddle... Not worth it in my opinion, I like wood better, but that is just me!

Doesn't anyone read posts before making a judgement???


I just weighed my 49 inch GRB carbon racing paddle - 10.5 ounces for the whole thing including the plastic GRB logo on the blade!!

My 53 inch GRB (no logo) weighs 9.5 oz.

Several Adirondack region racers use GRB paddles. I wouldn't call them uncommon.

 

[Canotrouge]

Yes, I thought that, but it is a long paddle. What does an equivalent wood paddle weigh?

It may be one of the reasons why they aren't common.

A 68" sitka spruce with ash reinforced tip and a similar blade shape, come in at 25oz... 68" is quite a long paddle, a "regular" length paddle would come closer to 17 to 20 oz...

 

[yknpdlr]

That is heavy for a carbon paddle... Not worth it in my opinion, I like wood better, but that is just me!

I also prefer wood when recreating, never for racing. You will not see any serious racers using wood paddles, certainly not for any long distance marathon races

One thing about the weight of wood (when recreating), while it is in the water during a stroke it does not weigh the same as it does out of water. Come to think of it, the same is true for a foam core carbon paddle as well.

 

[Dagger]

Doesn't anyone read posts before making a judgement???


I just weighed my 49 inch GRB carbon racing paddle - 10.5 ounces for the whole thing including the plastic GRB logo on the blade!!

My 53 inch GRB (no logo) weighs 9.5 oz.

Several Adirondack region racers use GRB paddles. I wouldn't call them uncommon.

I believe the comment about heavy paddle was in reference to the UK link Bothwell provided. Thank you by the way!
The UK carbon otter tail comes in at a little over 20oz for a 70" paddle. I agree that is heavy for a carbon paddle. I'd think even at 60" the paddle would still weigh 18oz or so. My $80 BB beaver tail weighs 22oz at 60" length.

The GRB paddle at 10oz is light, even for carbon.
BB used to have the Black Perl that weight 9oz I believe, but I heard they took it off the market cause some of them broke.

 

[lowangle al]

Yes, I thought that, but it is a long paddle. What does an equivalent wood paddle weigh?

It may be one of the reasons why they aren't common.

Thanks for posting that BV, I'm not ready to pull the trigger on one but it is what I'm looking for.



I just weighed two 72" wood paddles. The manufactured low cost Carlisle weighed about 28oz and isn't too heavy, but I could probably snap it with one hard pull. The white spruce one that I carved myself weighed around 40oz and is a lot beefier than neccessary, it's not a paddle for all day use. I would like to know what my ash ones weigh but don't have access to them.


I think 20oz for a long paddle is reasonable, especially if you can really put your weight into it.

 

[Alan Gage]

I think 20oz for a long paddle is reasonable, especially if you can really put your weight into it.

The website also said they've added fiberglass to the shaft to give it more flex. This would make the shaft heavier as well and but probably make it feel lighter overall than a 20oz wood paddle where more of the weight would be in the blade.

Alan

 

[yknpdlr]

My 56" cherry Tremolo (Caleb Davis) beavertail paddle weighs 21 oz, Caleb's standard cherry otter tail (wide palm grip, 30" shaft, 58" overall) weighs, 25 oz, less than that when in the water.

 

[stripperguy]

My 56" cherry Tremolo (Caleb Davis) beavertail paddle weighs 21 oz, Caleb's standard cherry otter tail (wide palm grip, 30" shaft, 58" overall) weighs, 25 oz, less than that when in the water.

yknpdlr,
Ha ha, that's twice you've said that!!
I'm pretty sure the weight is the weight no matter where the paddle is, unless you leave the planet, that is...

 

[Dagger]

The plot thickens...
Below is the 2nd response from Gene Newman.
Just to recap, I had asked Gene for a 6.75" x 25" straight shaft beavertail blade. I did not ask for a specific shaft length since they are typically between 54" and 60". A total weight of 10 to 11oz would be great for such a paddle!

"No, the 10 to 11 oz is for the whole paddle, the advantages of carbon. I don't have a photo on file for that but when I get to the shop the first of the week I will see if I can find the plug and get a photo of that. I can't adjust the angle but if you have used a 12 degree racing one a 6 degree hardly looks or feels like any angle. I can cut down the width to about 7 inches but will have to measure the length. If you do decide to buy one I would be very interested to find out how it works with your more traditional style of paddling."

As far as differences in weight (in or out of the water) goes, I am sure that weight and displacement and buoyancy...etc all have some impact on paddle feel, perceived weight, ergonomics and so on. I am sure individual body mechanics as well as paddle style also contribute. Bottom line though, if you take the paddle out of the water you'll have to lift its weight right?. The following calculations may be crude, but it does apply to some degree.
Imagine an 8 hour flat water day trip, reduce the total time by 3 hours for breaks, slow sections, photo ops...etc to get to actual paddling time. Now multiply the remaining minutes paddled by a paddle cadence of 30 strokes/minute. The result is 9,000 strokes. Each 1oz of paddle weight therefore translates into roughly 550 pounds you have to move somehow that day. Like I said, probably crude, but I believe it indicates that even a small difference in paddle weight adds up over time.

 

[yknpdlr]

I calculate that during the Yukon 1000 mile canoe race, I make between a third and a half of a million paddle strokes over the 6 days to finish (using a GRB carbon bent paddle).

One of my paddling partners always paddles with an old heavy wood bent shaft when training for the Yukon and other marathon races. She figures it makes her stronger for when using a carbon during long races.

 

[yknpdlr]

yknpdlr,
Ha ha, that's twice you've said that!!
I'm pretty sure the weight is the weight no matter where the paddle is, unless you leave the planet, that is...

But due to buoyancy, you are not supporting the full weight of the paddle when it is in the water. Granted, on the recovery you lift the full paddle weight, but that is only half the time. Have you ever seen those awful plastic/fiberglass or tree-branch-thick waterlogged paddles found at some Scout camps? No buoyancy with those.

 

[Dagger]

I have seen those, and paddled with them! No love or nostalgia lost on them either. I think the whole buoyancy really only makes an appreciable difference in high quality, low weight paddles anyways. Some of the cheap rec sticks like Carlisle probably have enough buoyancy to not sink (at least I believe they don't sink), but that is it. It would be interesting to see how buoyancy actually figures into paddling dynamics, paddling effort, calories burned ...etc. I am just not smart enough to calculate any of that, and just thinking about it made my head hurt, so I had to go for a two hour paddle to clear my head of it...)

 

[lowangle al]

I'm not buying the bouyancy thing making the paddle lighter and decreasing paddling effort, when it's in the water . Just a gut feeling though since the paddle isn't actually floating, you have to submerge it. I think you would be better off with paddle that sinks for efficiency, (weight being equal) just don't drop it overboard.

 

[yknpdlr]

Go into the back of the old storage building at a youth camp waterfront, in some older camps you may find a paddle made of solid plastic and fiberglass without hollow shafts that will indeed sink. Try it and tell me how efficient it is.

 

[Canotrouge]

Wood, wood is good... I'm not racing anymore, I don't care for carbon, I like the feel of wood! Heavier indeed, but I average only around 45-50 stroke a minutes so no need for anything "fancy" and plus I paddle a "barge" full of gear!!

 

[stripperguy]

But due to buoyancy, you are not supporting the full weight of the paddle when it is in the water. Granted, on the recovery you lift the full paddle weight, but that is only half the time. Have you ever seen those awful plastic/fiberglass or tree-branch-thick waterlogged paddles found at some Scout camps? No buoyancy with those.

I guess my R & D engineering humor doesn't translate through the keyboard.
Of course the buoyancy reduces the load you carry, but the weight doesn't change, unless you change the mass of the paddle or alter the gravitational force!

Beyond that, any way you can reduce the calories required to move a given distance, the more advantage you'll have on your competitors. On a race like the Yukon 1000, I would think that the caloric savings from the buoyancy of a less dense paddle would certainly add up!

 

[yknpdlr]

As a career engineer myself I understand the difference. Mass is the invariant. Weight and perception of weight depends on gravity, location within a gravitational field, and any other force opposing it. The mass of a hot air balloon doesn't change, but it's weight is effectively reduced by the lifting (bouuancy) force of the hot air. Similarly, the perceived weight of an object placed in water is reduced by the bouyancy force, although its mass never changes.
See:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buoyancy
"In science, buoyancy also known as upthrust) is an upward force exerted by a fluid that opposes the weight of an immersed object."
"In a situation of fluid statics, the net upward buoyancy force is equal to the magnitude of the weight of fluid displaced by the body."
Technically, weight is not afffected either, unless gravity changes (as on another planet). But the "effective weight" is what is perceived by anything supporting a submerged object. Buoyancy can and does alter our perception of both mass and weight by affecting the measurement processes.

In the long run, does paddle bouyancy make any real difference to the paddler, I don't know, but maybe on the fringes. hold tight on to that foam paddle.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

People have asked about carbon beavertail paddles several times on forums over the years. I recall once that Patrick at Onno Paddles responded that he could reproduce any paddle in carbon if it were sent to him to make a mold. Price was not mentioned to my recollection, and I'm not sure whether Onno is still in business. You might try contacting him.

 

[Alan Gage]

People have asked about carbon beavertail paddles several times on forums over the years. I recall once that Patrick at Onno Paddles responded that he could reproduce any paddle in carbon if it were sent to him to make a mold. Price was not mentioned to my recollection, and I'm not sure whether Onno is still in business. You might try contacting him.

The only comments I've heard about Onno for the past couple years have been from people who have sent him money and never received a product; which is too bad as he turned out some nice things and seemed to have a real passion for it.

Alan

 

[Dagger]

Thanks Alan.
I did some quick searches on Onno. "Oh-no" would seems more fitting...