Single sided correction strokes - Does your paddle touch the hull?

[Alan Gage]

I'd like to get better with my single sided correction strokes. At slow speeds in light wind I feel pretty comfortable with what I think is referred to as a Canadian/northwoods stroke (blade is sliced partially forward in the water for correction) but when fighting the wind or putting down more power I really feel like I struggle.

One thing that tends to bother me is the shoulder of my bottom hand. My paddle shaft does not touch the hull during the stroke so this bottom hand is holding the paddling away from the hull during correction and over time starts to hurt my shoulder.

I see many videos of paddlers dragging the paddle shaft along the gunwale or prying off the gunwale for the correction portion of the stroke. This looks easier and more comfortable but it just seems wrong because of the wear on the boat as well as the paddle (both of which are usually composites for me).

So, does your paddle contact the hull during your stroke? If not am I missing something to keep the pressure off my shoulder?

FWIW, I'm center seated in solo canoes of various designs. Sometimes I wonder if the discomfort is coming from the paddle drifting too far behind me before the correction. But, being seated in the center, I feel like I need the blade farther back to get proper correction.

Alan

 

[samb]

I am a one sided paddler who pries off the outwale. With my wooden canoes and paddles I have a leather wrap sewn on the paddle shaft. The leather on the nearest paddle is held with velcro so it gets moved to different paddles.


With my composite paddles which I use in my plastic gunnel canoe I put a length of shrink wrap on the paddle shaft or use the velcro one

Sam

 

[Ober27]

For me, all my shoulder problems went away when I switched to an Ottertail style of paddle. Beaver tail or other style wide paddles seem to transfer to much stress to my shoulders. In my experience the more you practice the Northwoods stroke, the more you do the correction on the return slice instead of behind you.
If you have some different paddles to experiment with, you may find a paddle that feels better for you.
All my experience is either paddling tandem, or paddling solo in a tandem canoe facing backwards from the bow seat.
Good luck.

 

[memaquay]

Pry off the gunwale, why not use a mechanical advantage? My pry is often one handed from the grip, just a little flip. I have posted pictures before of paddles and gunwales that have had thousands of kilometers of prying on them with very little impact.

 

[Alan Gage]

Looks like I need to try prying off the gunwales. I like the idea of something wrapping the shaft for protection.

My paddles (and many of my gunwales) are carbon (or wood wrapped with carbon) and I've always avoided contact because carbon wears so easily. My normal paddle for correction strokes is cedar covered with carbon and even though I try to avoid hull contact it's already wearing into the carbon despite not being used a lot.

Alan

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Short answer: Yes, sometimes I pry off the gunwale when correcting.

Middle answer: When I do this, I almost always palm roll and do a partial or full in-water return. That requires symmetrical blade faces and, ideally, a symmetrical grip. Most of the correction happens during the in-water return.

Long answer: On an in-water return correction, whether done with or without a palm roll, the leading edge of the blade is angled slightly down (toward the bottom of the lake) for the first foot or so of the return. While it's angled slightly down, lift the paddle up slightly (like lifting the water an inch with the top face of the blade). Correction happens with some pressure on the arm. After that one foot or one second, the leading edge slice angle can be adjusted either (1) purely slicing forward in-water with no resistance toward the next catch (full in-water return; much easier with a palm roll), or (2) slightly upward so the blade pops into the air before the next catch (partial in-water return; no palm roll required).

Also, you are probably sitting. Were you kneeling, you could angle your body about 30° toward your paddle side—"facing your work." This enables a more vertical stroke with the your grip arm, and makes a no-hull-touch correction easier on your shaft wrist, forearm and shoulder.

 

[yknpdlr]

The answer for me is absolutely never does my paddle (straight wood ottertail or carbon bent) ever pry or touch my canoe in any manner unless it is laying inside the hull, when not being used. My solo power stroke with vertical shaft, both hands "stacked" over the water, goes from the catch in front of me, gradually morphing from straight back power into a pitch stroke, with a partial "C" as might be necessary. The pitch eliminates any necessity to ever need anything more a slight quick non hesitating J correction, then immediately into a feathered air recovery without ever touching the canoe at any point. Only if in a sharp onside turn, a more radical outward push to a ruddering J hold might be needed, with blade held well out away from the boat, never touching it.

If not in racing or training mode, what would in that have been a slight ending J instead will become a Canadian recovery and correction stroke, power face of the blade facing up.

When I train new paddlers, I was taught to push their boat into a glide and have them discover what happens when they drag the paddle in J (or rudder) orientation mode with the blade held down at a slightly rotated angle relative to vertical. When it is fully under water near the stern, you can make the boat bow yaw in either left or right direction until you apply a normal vertical blade J pushed at a slight outward angle to make the bow drift toward the onside.

I have seen photos of Bill Mason's padle shaft nearly worn through from draggiing it on the gunwale, so in some schools that is obviously ok. I learned differently.

 

[Alan Gage]

On an in-water return correction, whether done with or without a palm roll, the leading edge of the blade is angled slightly down (toward the bottom of the lake) for the first foot or so of the return. While it's angled slightly down, lift the paddle up slightly (like lifting the water an inch with the back face of the blade). Correction happens with some pressure on the arm. After that one foot or one second, the leading edge slice angle can be adjusted either (1) purely slicing forward in-water with no resistance toward the next catch (full in-water return; much easier with a palm roll), or (2) slightly upward so the blade pops into the air before the next catch (partial in-water return; no palm roll required).

Yes, this pretty much explains what I'm doing but not the palm roll method.

My right shoulder was the one that tended to be bothered and I had minor surgery on it last year. I haven't paddled extensively since surgery so maybe my pain will be gone now. I tried it earlier this year and it still felt awkward though, especially when more than normal correction was needed due to something like wind.

Also, you are probably sitting. Were you kneeling, you could angle your body about 30° toward your paddle side—"facing your work." This enables a more vertical stroke with the your grip arm, and makes a no-hull-touch correction easier on your shaft wrist, forearm and shoulder.

I'll try kneeling and angling to see what that does.

I'll also pay close attention to my mechanics from side to side. My stroke feels better on the left side than the right side. I don't know if that's because my mechanics are better on that side or because my shoulder is better on that side.

Alan

 

[recped]

I'm a dedicated practitioner of the "goon" stroke, 99% of my paddle strokes (not including cross strokes in rapids / fast water) are on the right side.

I do not drag my paddle shaft along the gunnel because I keep my paddle at 90 degrees relative to the water.

When I get to the pry portion like @memaquay it's usually just a brief little "flip" and most of the time the paddle shaft only brushes the gunnel at most, much of the time my palm is resting on the gunnel and the paddle shaft momentarily sits between my thumb and forefinger for the pry.

When I bought my first carbon paddle it developed a small indent at the pry point of the shaft, I applied some whipping to the shaft as a cushion, no more damage to the paddle shaft, it's also quiet on the vinyl gunnels.

Even my oldest boats (vinyl gunnels) show no signs of any wear from the paddle shaft, there are quite a few dings but those come from letting my canoe run the rapids without me!

Whipping your paddle shaft.....

Whipping Paddles

Whipping is done without any type of glue, I was skeptical that this would remain in place for very long but my primary paddle was whipped 10 years ago / 500+ days of paddling and it's as tight as the day I put it on. The whipping protects the shaft, the gunnel and provides a more comfortable grip. I just used 3mm (maybe 2mm?) nylon cordage instead of the traditional ultra thin cotton.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

My intent is to do like @yknpdlr , but I'm still a work in progress. If my paddle contacts the boat, it's by accident or the odd whitewater or wind fighting move. Oh - or it's to move directly sideways. My shoulders don't get sore unless I get sloppy trying to go fast or fighting wind.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Re damage:

I have pried off both wood and carbon gunwales with both wood and carbon paddles. I've never noticed any damage on any of the gunwales other than a slightly accelerated wearing away of the oil or varnish finish at the contact spot on wood gunwales. Easily restored.

A soft wood shaft (e.g., cedar) will become micro-dented where it has been levered off the gunwale. But over time, especially with palm rolling, the micro-dents eventually blend into into a smooth micro-ring around the shaft. No problem to me.

My hardwood shafts, mostly ash, show no denting or other structural damage—just a wearing away of the oil or varnish finish at the contact points. Again, easily restored.

My carbon shafts show almost no contact evidence other than perhaps some barely visible scuffing marks.

I've never whipped paddles. Not sure I'd like the feel. My paddle-gunwale correction contacts on lake canoes are not like the Herculean stern pries and rudders sometimes necessary in whitewater. They are much lighter "thumb down" flicks with perhaps a soft slide-along of a few inches. Just enough force to induce the beginning of corrective yaw, which is mainly completed by the in-water return.

 

[memaquay]

When I was introduced to whitewater paddling, I was taught by Canadian trained ORCA instructors. The main bow strokes were always draws and crossbows. They mentioned the bow pry, which they said was an American thing, and that it was the preferred stroke south of the border, apparently because one did not need to change sides for correction, and that the crossbow was looked down on. When I have paddled bow in whitewater, I find I am continuously switching between draws and crossbows. So, my American friends, is it true that the bow pry is American and the crossbow is Canadian, and if so, has anyone noticed any damage to their paddles or gunwales?

 

[scoutergriz]

where I paddle (lakes, rivers, and streams) it involves a lot of draws and prys to get around tight bends I've always pried off the gunwales when doing prys for the simple reason that you get more leverage, my favourite paddle has a very slight wear mark on the shaft after close to 40 years of use and the gunwales show little wear either. if I need a hard pry to keep from getting hung up in the alders, or even pop the bow over a mid- bend strainer log, you can bet I'm using the gunwale for extra leverage...

 

[Steve in Idaho]

When I was introduced to whitewater paddling, I was taught by Canadian trained ORCA instructors. The main bow strokes were always draws and crossbows. They mentioned the bow pry, which they said was an American thing, and that it was the preferred stroke south of the border, apparently because one did not need to change sides for correction, and that the crossbow was looked down on. When I have paddled bow in whitewater, I find I am continuously switching between draws and crossbows. So, my American friends, is it true that the bow pry is American and the crossbow is Canadian, and if so, has anyone noticed any damage to their paddles or gunwales?

I don't know about others, but I use both. I find an crossdraw to usually be more effective, but sometimes a pry is called for. Usually if I pry it's near or behind my hip for a sideslip. I haven't heard of anybody who is a skilled paddler looking down on crossdraws. Unskilled paddlers seem to eschew anything that isn't a sweep or a rudder.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

When I'm doing whitewater I'm usually using a fiberglass paddle and vinyl gunwales, so no sign of wear. I might be using the Grey Owl Hammerhead, but haven't had it long enough to accumulate wear.

Oh.... never been a bowman in whitewater. Only solo.

 

[yknpdlr]

More than 95% of my marathon canoe races see me as the bow paddler, nearly all in a voyageur or C4 canoe. While cruising open water, I set the cadence, as most bow paddlers do with hit and switch as called by the stern paddler, who controls overall direction of track. I occasionally provide minor turn corrections as I see the need with what I call a moving draw, or bow rudder left or right. My favorite segment of the Adirondack 90 mile race is Brown's Tract, 2. 5 miles of constant closely spaced narrow twists, turns and S-bends In Brown's, some at or nearly 180 degrees along with several beaver dam chutes to negotiate.

In Brown’s, I hut myself on my own schedule and hug the gunwale independent of the paddlers seated behind me. Approaching a large bend, I aim to begin the approach wide with my stern paddler and myself positioning the canoe with bow rudder and power draws at a good "approach angle" set up to enter and complete the hard turn efficiently. Just one miss-placed stroke would put us nose first into the brush and mud of the outside bank. I paddle hard until my instinct tells me to begin strong onside power draws paddle placed well forward and away from the hull, while the stern paddler does what is needed with opposite draws and rudder to swing the stern into the turn. Mid-seat paddlers maintain strong forward power strokes to maintain our speed. After I begin to tire, my draw becomes a post, angling my blade as an outstretched vertical rudder and hard pull to get us around every kink in the river without ever ramming into the outside brushy muddy shore. My paddle never strikes or preys off either side gunwale. When I first started racing in a heavy strip voyageur, I carried a spare sturdy straight wood paddle that I would wedge against the bow in the water to rudder swing the bow around a bend. It worked extremely well, although it bled off a lot of speed. I would not dare do that with my carbon bent paddles now, for fear of breaking them from the very strong stress force.

When approaching and overtaking another canoe in Brown’s, I have my own strategy of faking a pass and getting around it without causing any conflict while passing and leaving it in an inefficient position to make their own next turn.

I recently received a call from a very experienced 30 year team who I once filled in for a missing bow paddler once several years ago, now looking for a bow paddler this year, but I was already committed to my own usual team. it was quite a compliment when he told me he has never raced with any other bow paddler in Brown's in the way I was able to get through it so quickly.

 

[gumpus]

So, my American friends, is it true that the bow pry is American and the crossbow is Canadian?

I do whatever strikes my mood. I paddle on both sides and assume that anyone that confines themself to one side must be crazy or some kind of weird canoe snob. I have no desire to be consistent and I would be embarrassed to learn that I follow the norms of any country.

In my experience the bow pry can be useful if you suddenly decide that you want to park your boat and continue on your journey without it.

 

[lowangle al]

35 years ago they were teaching the cross draw in New York. My wife paddles bow and I don't ever remember seeing her do a bow pry.

The only differences I've noticed between American and Canadian paddlers is, like I mentioned before, the Canadians have an aversion to switching sides. They also seem to like to get their feet wet for what appears to be no apparent reason. I saw one guy on you tube walk in the water so far that his Tilley hat floated away.

 

[Chip]

Cross-bow vs. bow pry: I believe the cross bow is the most powerful stroke in canoeing, because you use your whole back and torso. When you need to move the bow a lot, use the cross bow. However, I’m a little slower with the cross bow, it just takes a little time to rotate, do the stroke, and then move the paddle back to the on-side. The pry is faster to deploy. Just turn your blade and push away, but it is just not as effective as the cross bow.

Using the outwale: I try not to. I like to wear leather gloves when paddling. The gloves keep the sun off my hand and make it easier to rotate the paddle, plus, there is really nothing in the river or on the bank that I want to touch with my skin. When I do pry, I usually brace the heel of my palm on the outwale, so there is glove and hand between the paddle and the outwale.

I have no idea if I do a proper J stroke, so I shouldn’t be giving advice (but I will). What I try to do is rotate my top hand thumb down once the paddle stroke reaches my hip and lift, with the blade canted, the paddle up out of the water. This produces a pushing force towards the off side that brings the boat back towards the onside. I’m lifting instead of pushing outward. It seems less work than prying.

 

[Chip]

“Tilley hat floated away.” good one!