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Sellers Remorse

Joined
Jun 3, 2015
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Location
Anchorage Alaska / Pocono Mts.
I sold an OT Tripper yesterday and I'm not sorry the boat is gone but I have a bad feeling that the new owner may be "in over his head" for what he wants to do with it. He told me that in his previous boat, some kind of pontoon boat with a 9HP motor, he tried crossing the Knik River to get to "Fort Harrington" and couldn't make it because the current pushed him downstream. I never hear of Fort Harrington so I didn't know exactly where he was going but the Knik is pretty much flat water so I didn't think much of it.

I knew he had no experience when he asked if it came with oars, he also said this boat will be perfect because it doesn't have a keel so it won't be pushed downstream by the current . He was happy with the 17 foot length and how big of a boat it is. This guy was big, maybe 6'6" or more and he was also heavy, I told him that a seventeen foot canoe is not a big boat and that an 11' rowboat might be more stable. I told him that a canoe is greatly affected by wind and currents and that he should get an instructional book and watch some videos to get educated. I told him to sit in the bow seat and face the stern if he is solo and stressed again the importance of getting educated to be safe.

Before he left he said how impressed he was that the according to the literature the boat can haul 1500 lbs and how he was going to load it up with gear to get to "Fort Harrison" if that is what it is called. I said you don't mean Point MacKensie do you? Yeah that's it he said. It was then I realized he wasn't crossing the Knik River with the boat but Knik Arm, which is a long open saltwater crossing with very strong tides and usually windy. Now I wouldn't say that it is not possible in a canoe but if I were to do it I would wear a dry suit just in case. I told him I didn't think it was a good idea to take the boat there and that he would need a lot more experience to do something like that.

I was as honest as I could be about the boat and it's limitations and what size motor it could handle and any other precaution I could think of, but as he drove down the driveway I just hoped that I wouldn't be reading about him in the paper. Has anybody else ever had that feeling when selling a boat and was there anything more I should have done. If he calls back and says the boat is too unstable for him I will give him his money back, but I didn't offer that. He got it at a good enough price that he should have no problem selling it himself.
 
I think you did all you could, Al. It’s up to him now. At one time, all of us were rank beginners, and we went about learning and practicing our skills. If hubris prevents him from doing the same, it’s on him.
 
I was as honest as I could be about the boat and it's limitations and what size motor it could handle and any other precaution I could think of, but as he drove down the driveway I just hoped that I wouldn't be reading about him in the paper. Has anybody else ever had that feeling when selling a boat and was there anything more I should have done. If he calls back and says the boat is too unstable for him I will give him his money back, but I didn't offer that. He got it at a good enough price that he should have no problem selling it himself.

Sounds like you gave as much advice and information as he needed to before he drove off. I go through those situations all the time around here. Even today on the side of a mountain where a family on mountain bikes showed up on a trail that I have never seen bikes on in 20 years. I’m sure they all made it, but depending on what they had on for shoes they may have ruined their weekend. I run into it at the edge of big rivers and I’ll plead with someone to wait until the river comes down. But I guess if they see me going by myself why would they listen to me? If my paddling crew is going on a class V trip, they let me know if they think I should go or not and I’m experienced enough after 45 years to listen. Some people are just too inexperienced to hear what your saying. I think your good to go.

cheers,

barry
 
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Ohhh yikes that is scary. I would be feeling a bit nervous too if I were you.
In the end it is Darwin's principle.
 
Al, You gave all the warning signs from an experienced paddler to a novice. We as paddlers live and learn from our mistakes and trials. I know I have had my share of mishaps that cost me a boat and a very unpleasant evening in a tree. Like Waterdog said the inexperience of the newbies not listening to people who have been doing this for years falls on deaf ears. You got to learn on your own experiences and perils.
 
Sounds like a bullshite slinger to me. The fact that he didn't know the proper name of the place, etc makes me think he never actually tried it in the first place. I talked to a guy once who told me he had been on a bunch of deadly portages on one of the routes I maintain, and when I started asking him very specific questions, it was obvious he had never been there. I wouldn't worry about anything, he's probably just gonna sit on his arse watching Oprah.
 
Yeah, I kinda got the feeling he wasn't listening and didn't want any advise. This was obvious when he tried to tie the boat on using one approx. 50' rope. I told him he should cut the rope into shorter lengths and how to tie the boat on properly but he had his own ideas. I went ahead and got some of my rope and tied one over the boat at the front rack and two more from the bow to towing hooks on the front of his vehicle. Without my help I'm not sure the boat would have made it to his destination.
 
Never been to Point MacKenzie, but, pretty sure you can drive there or get close with a two wheel drive car, starting from Wasilla on either the Knik/Goose Lake Road or Big Lake Road. I personally dont' like flying in a Boeing 737 over the Knik Arm or Cook Inlet on my now rare trips into Anchorage. Nasty winds and bad tides with glacial till in the icy water keeps bad thoughts in the forefront of my thoughts on Approach or Departure to or from the North.
 
Well Al you did your level best to protect him from himself. The rest is up to him. He may give all your advice some second thought you never know. It may've just needed some time to soak in. He likely will have to discover these things for himself, one way or another. I wouldn't worry too much about the guy. It's quite possible he'll either become discouraged through trial and error or actually achieve some other adventures on a smaller safer scale. In any case that canoe will probably get stored behind his garage gathering cobwebs and dust much like a lot of people's crazy dreams.
 
Intellectually you did all you could, Al, but the emotion is understandable.

So, a side-arm motor on a double end canoe out on a cold, windy, tidal, open ocean bay without a dry or wet suit! Sounds risky . . .

. . . but familiar.

Oh, yeah, I did it with my first canoe 40 years ago. I put a 2 hp Mercury outboard on my 16' Mad River Royalex Explorer and zoomed around San Francisco Bay, blowing kisses at Charles Manson as I carved in front of San Quentin prison. I sat on my wide cane center seat with pipe extension attached to the motor arm. I never went too far from shore and only did it once, but would have done it more except for the time and distance hassle from San Jose.

I did know how to tie the boat on my beat up Wankel engine car. I could even lift it in those days.

He'll wise up, one way or another, and survive.
 
Unfortunately many recent arrivals to Alaska want to participate in our great outdoors while relying on experience from more placid waters. Knik Arm is BAD WATER! His desired crossing point is at the junction with Cook Inlet.....home of the second highest tide in the world. If not timing arrivals with the tide, one can be stranded on mud flats a long way from shore. The incoming tide can come in with a wind and you never will reach shore. I'm not sure a canoe powered by a kicker can overcome the tidal currents.

Al has good reason to be concerned about the fellow. To attempt Knik Arm or Cook Inlet in a canoe is foolhardy. That is not canoe country!
 
This is a really important topic. The newbies get offended when we tell them the truth about their ideas. But there is too much at stake to remain quiet. Safety is not negotiable. I am willing to offend people to help them from making bad mistakes.
 
Similar story. My brother and sister in law were doing a trip to Alaska a few years back. They traveled with a small truck and an Aliner camper from Montana. He wanted to bring a boat, so I offered up one of my canoes for them to take instead of the old beat up Grumman eagle. He turned me down and went online and ordered an inflatable called the sea eagle. He didnt want a boat up on the vehicle that might get stolen. Sure, ok good plan.

At one point I asked him what kind of paddling they planned to do. This was after I had made a list of possible calm water lakes and streams I had paddled in a canoe as a young guy. I went to high school and a couple years of college in anchorage. He then proceeded to describe the planned trip to Katchemak Bay state park where they would be dropped off, camp a few days there, then paddle back accross to homer. All in a 12' sea eagle inflatable canoe/kayak or whatever it is. No real paddling experience besides bouncing down rocky montana streams in an aluminum canoe and no wet or dry suits, nothing. I was alarmed at his proclamation because I was familiar with the place. I was also alarmed that he had already made reservations for the one way shuttle out there. I was horrified by the prospect of him and my wife's sister attempting that big crossing in cook inlet, and I went down the list of all the hazards, summarized with an over dramatic "you will die if you attempt it" when I realized he wasn't really listening to anything I said. He also described a trip where they would paddle down the coast from Haines to some river. I couldnt listen any more and finally went to my sister in law and made her promise that she wouldn't get in that boat in the ocean anywhere.

I don't know if they would have actually attempted the trip if I hadn't intervened. Hopefully the shuttle boat company would have put a stop to it or maybe the crossing to the state park would have scared the he'll out of them.
 
Thanks for all of the responses. I don't think this guys goal was canoeing, he was unfamiliar with any local paddling spots that would have come up with one google search of "paddling spots near Anchorage", and he is an IT guy by trade. He did mention Ship Creek which empties into the inlet right near the public boat launch. He probably got the Knik Arm crossing idea from people he encountered launching there. And yes he was new in town.

Ppine, I agree that it is OK if you offend someone if safety is concerned.

It is amazing the poor decisions that the uninformed can make. With everything that is available on the internet today there really is no excuse for it.
 
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