​Preferred gunwale material?

[Guest]

Willie’s thread on the Swift Otter with delaminating gunwale cladding got me thinking about preferred gunwale materials.

I’ve never had a canoe with FRP gunwales and I’m not sure I ever will. Although pushing 60 the additional weight savings do become increasingly attractive.

I have only had one canoe like Willie’s with vinyl (?) clad aluminum gunwales, a Dagger from their last year of production. Those were relatively beefy stiff and sturdy gunwales, with an oddly “soft” inwale profile. That canoe went to a niece 10 years ago and, while I know it has been soundly abused in both use and storage, and I have not seen it since to appraise the cladding durability.

For my purposes thin cladding on aluminum gunwales seems a poor choice for roof rack transport, home storage, gunwale pries and general camp scrapage.

I love the look and feel of wood gunwales, especially those with soft and well drained profiles. But I do not have an abundance of indoor storage, and the maintenance of wood gunwaled canoes stored outside needs more attention than a quick and easy oil swipe a couple of times a year.

I’m ok with aluminum gunwales, although the inwale edge is often ergonomically uncomfortable. A little chunk of shaped minicel works wonders there. But aluminum gunwales do not recover well after even minor pins.

Sad to synthetically say, I kinda like big chunky-inwaled vinyl gunwales, with aluminum channel inserts if the canoe is long enough. With big honking vinyl deck plates, all the better to accommodate a long, wide vee of painter line bungee above and below.

Those clunky vinyl gunwales have lots of depth available on the inwale box to seat machine screws and flange washers for truss seat drops, thwarts or yoke.

I admit that they are the ugliest and weightiest of choices. But they are functional and maintenance free. And certainly the easiest to install when regunwaling a canoe.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Ash.

I'm finishing up two canoes, both will have the same gunnels, decks and seats. With hardware, the trim will weigh 16 - 17#. These are both solos, 15'9".

I debated going aluminum for the Kevlar, and wish I had, as it would have been my first. There is always next time !

I like scuppers in my gunnels ! I can't find that in aluminum.
As for looks, Watcoed Ash has my heart over aluminum !

To each his own !

 

[Guest]

I had a lightweight hemlock kestrel with spruce gunnels. As lite as composite, but soft and dents easy. Not as attractive as cherry or ash.
Turtle

 

[wysedav]

I'm building a boat now with redwood gunnels, should I epoxy it? Or maybe varnish or Tung oil? Maybe glass it and then varnish like everything else?

 

[stripperguy]

I've used all sorts of wood, had a particularly light 17 ft tandem that I used southern yellow pine. It hold up OK.
I gotta say I really like the carbon fiber over foam, with a strategically placed over layer of glass, where the boat rests on roof racks.
And I liked Alan's carbon wrapped cedar, I might do that on my next build.
Never used any metal, for me, it's not an option.

 

[Boatman53]

I'm about to redo a Mad River canoe and will use Mahogany. I find the Ash just doesn't hold up, rots too easily. Actually I have three canoes to do so will be milling all at once to save time.
Jim

 

[Alan Gage]

I've got no problem with aluminum. Strong and lightweight. Not the prettiest thing out there but some of them don't look too bad, Bell's in particular.

I've never really had a boat with wood so I can't comment. I had a couple briefly but didn't own them long enough to get to know them. I don't like the weight and I don't like the guessing game as to how strong or weak any given piece is or if there's hidden rot you can't see.

Never had carbon over foam but I think that will change on a couple boats this winter. I'd like to retrofit my Magic and maybe a couple other ones too. Not exactly cheap or as DIY friendly as wood but lightweight and strong and it's fun to try something new.

For the time being I see myself sticking with either carbon over foam or carbon over cedar. I think carbon/cedar is stronger than any of the hardwoods out there and a good deal lighter.

I think this thread could get a little skewed with most of the "make it wood and make it heavy" constituency out tripping together at the moment. Perhaps a coup?

Alan

 

[sailsman63]

I've done Ash, and like Jim Dodd scuppers are essential. Helps with drainage, and adds a handy attachment point for all sorts of gear. Also allows more sectional width to the gunwale structure ( = more stiffness for given material) without all the weight.

Due to difficulty in finding full-length hardwood and a... complicated relationship with scarf joints, I'm going to try laminated gunwales on my current build. (epoxy + cheap cabosil + a variety of hardwoods = hmm... what can I do? )
wysedav I can't make decisions for you, but I would note a couple of things:

- Tung Oil will need re-coating relatively more often than the other options
- Redwood is not all that hard. Even Ash will pick up some nice dings in normal use. (if you've never worked it, its a lot like Red Oak in physical properties, other than being more rot resistant.)

I'll probably saturate mine with epoxy (I have a very thin resin that will soak in well, before I glue everything up) and then topcoat at the same time as my hull.

 

[dave0]

I use ash because I can buy 20' boards of it and mill out my own vs buying them and paying through the nose for shipping. I am a varnish guy as I know I am too lazy to oil them a few times a year. As long as I store them inside the ash seems to weather well. With that said I am intrigued by the idea of putting a coat or two of epoxy on them as I'm regunwaling a MR Malecite Kev I picked up last fall. Has anyone done this on ash before? Would that be tougher and longer lasting then spar varnish? Interesting topic!

 

[Jim Dodd]

I'd be a little shy of redwood for gunnels. It's soft and it splinters easily. There maybe a romance involved, but I would opt for something harder. It also has an oil that resists epoxy adhesion.
Just used a few strips in my Pearl, and have a Spot of delamination already.

Jim

 

[Guest]

I'm building a boat now with redwood gunnels, should I epoxy it? Or maybe varnish or Tung oil? Maybe glass it and then varnish like everything else?

Good question. I have never worked with Redwood, other than for some tabletops. I have only used ash for DIY gunwales, and I have protected them with multiple coats of old-timey oil mix, usually 1/3 boiled mineral spirit, 1/3 (old) varnish and 1/3 turpentine, with an added dollop of turps to the first coat or two. The heavier turp coats do take a looong time to dry.

“Usually” because I have thrown the dregs of tung oil and old Watco and little hockey pucks of spar varnish (which eventually dissolve) into that oil mix can over the years.

I like the protective performance of that mix, and it is easy to wipe-on reapply. Except, unfortunately, to the undersides, were rot from trapped moisture and funk inducing dirt is most likely to begin. I know I am not backing out all those screws to inspect or refresh the undersides of the gunwales with any regularity.

I have thought of varnishing new wood gunwales, or even epoxying (and then varnishing for UV protection) them. But I am rough on my canoes, at least in terms of sliding them on and off storage and roof racks. And prys. And flipping them over in camp. Or even just having them jiggling against the roof racks over the course of long cross country trips.

I know I wouldn’t want to DIY fiberglass on my gunwales, at least with an honest assessment of my ‘glassing skills and gunwale scraping tendencies. The eventual result would most likely be a virtual pain, as in wee glass shards stuck in my fingers.

I wonder is any impermeable barrier is a good idea on wood gunwales? Gunwales flex and bend a bit, and mine get dinged and banged and scraped up. If I open a gouge or crack through the epoxy layer would that trap moisture in the wood below the surrounding impermeable top coat?

I know, proper and routine gunwale maintenance. Bleh.