Japanese Whitewater: Entering and Exiting Eddies

[Glenn MacGrady]

Here are some Japanese open canoeists entering and exiting an eddy on the Nagatoro River. Notice their hats and shirts as they paddle big Royalex canoes, all or most seemingly Old Towns, with very long metal-plastic paddles.

The way the second, third and fourth paddlers exit the eddy is interesting. They point upstream, spin downstream on the eddy line, and then kick their stern out into the main current and back paddle. I've never seen that technique before.

The fifth soloist does a nice backwards eddy turn.

The final boat is a some sort of mutant spawn of a Venetian gondola and freighter poling canoe.

 

[Mississippi Mud]

it's a really interesting channel. I've watched most of his videos, and he and his paddling cohort use OT Campers, Pathfinders, and St. Charles. According to his comments, that's what they can find in Japan (I'm guessing he means used boats). No helmets and no flotation.

He's quite a good paddler, especially with keeping his stick in the water. Lots of compound strokes and sculls. In one of his comments, he wrote that he learned everything from Bill Mason's books and videos.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

There are high performance whitewater composite canoes from Millbrook in Japan.

 

[Mississippi Mud]

There are high performance whitewater composite canoes from Millbrook in Japan.

View attachment 137045

Those are some happy people with great boats. I wonder if they utilize as much back paddling as the original video or if they are more cab forward.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Those are some happy people with great boats. I wonder if they utilize as much back paddling as the original video or if they are more cab forward.

I suspect the Japanese techniques will evolve and become more aggressive as the American technique did with shorter and more high performance open canoes.

In the real old days, before my time, eddies were something to be feared and avoided—mini whirlpools that could spin you out of control.

Next, eddies began to be entered by slowly backpaddling next to them, and then kicking your stern across the eddyline with a pry or draw stroke. This would leave the canoe in the eddy pointing downstream. The eddy would be exited simply by paddling downstream out of the tail, the way that 5th Japanese soloist did.

Next, eddies were entered bow first at an angle, and pivoted upstream in the eddy via the eddyline shear and a backsweeping low brace.

Next, after Milo Duffek and other slalom racers perfected the technique, the eddy was entered bow first and pivoted upstream in the eddy on a Duffek or cross-Duffek (AKA, a turning high brace). The eddy peel out was done similarly: punching through the upstream eddyline, heeling the canoe radically downstream, pivoting on a Duffek or cross-Duffek, and paddling forward. Sometimes it still makes sense to enter an on-side eddy on a quick backsweeping low brace.

I'll post a video on modern whitewater technique in a day or two.

 

[Gamma1214]

Last boat missed both eddies.

 

[Mason]

Fast boaters pretty much have to do the stern backstroke eddy. The boats don't want to turn, and they have a great tendency to slice across eddy lines. I do love hanging out hard on a high brace on peel-outs, though, but not in my Wenonahs! My most recent eddy turns were in PakCanoes with a month's gear in them (and in remote areas). They aren't quite a quick as an empty river boat, but they do get the job done.

 

[Art D]

I suspect the Japanese techniques will evolve and become more aggressive as the American technique did with shorter and more high performance open canoes.

In the real old days, before my time, eddies were something to be feared and avoided—mini whirlpools that could spin you out of control.

Next, eddies began to be entered by slowly backpaddling next to them, and then kicking your stern across the eddyline with a pry or draw stroke. This would leave the canoe in the eddy pointing downstream. The eddy would be exited simply by paddling downstream out of the tail, the way that 5th Japanese soloist did.

Next, eddies were entered bow first at an angle, and pivoted upstream in the eddy via the eddyline shear and a backsweeping low brace.

Next, after Milo Duffek and other slalom racers perfected the technique, the eddy was entered bow first and pivoted upstream in the eddy on a Duffek or cross-Duffek (AKA, a turning high brace). The eddy peel out was done similarly: punching through the upstream eddyline, heeling the canoe radically downstream, pivoting on a Duffek or cross-Duffek, and paddling forward. Sometimes it still makes sense to enter an on-side eddy on a quick backsweeping low brace.

I'll post a video on modern whitewater technique in a day or two.

Glenn,
Did you ever post the video? Or are you referring to the Tom Foster videos you linked to elsewhere? Thanks.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I'll post a video on modern whitewater technique in a day or two.

Glenn,
Did you ever post the video? Or are you referring to the Tom Foster videos you linked to elsewhere? Thanks.

I suppose I meant the Tom Foster videos that I did post shortly thereafter, but there is no dearth of videos available demonstrating modern whitewater skills such as eddy turns, peeling out, ferrying and surfing, which are the basic skills.

 

[Art D]

I suppose I meant the Tom Foster videos that I did post shortly thereafter, but there is no dearth of videos available demonstrating modern whitewater skills such as eddy turns, peeling out, ferrying and surfing, which are the basic skills.

Glenn,
I was happy for your post and really enjoyed the entire series of Tom Foster videos. In addition to being a great paddler, he has the perfect voice for it. But he's in a play boat, and what I'm after is a something that talks a little about paddling asymmetrical tripping hulls, especially those with pinched sterns, in whitewater. Take the SRT, for example. Is it designed to be paddled exclusively from in front of the paddler? I've been having a hard time trying to back ferry the boat and I'm wondering if that's just something it's not meant to do. Appreciate any insight you have to offer, including that I may just have to keep working at it. Thanks.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Take the SRT, for example. Is it designed to be paddled exclusively from in front of the paddler? I've been having a hard time trying to back ferry the boat and I'm wondering if that's just something it's not meant to do. Appreciate any insight you have to offer, including that I may just have to keep working at it. Thanks.

No, the SRT isn't designed to be paddled exclusively from in front of the paddler. I've paddled mine next to Harold Deal in his, and he paddled it like a normal canoe with a typical battery of bow and stern strokes.

However, since the rocker is asymmetrical with a pinched stern, the SRT may be easier to turn in some circumstances with bow draws or pries rather than stern strokes. You can also enhance stern slide turning by pitching your weight forward, along with a heel, to lift and release the stern. Alternatively, if you have the SRT adjustable seat, you could adjust it further forward to release the stern more for flat water and whitewater turns.

No, the SRT is not a whitewater playboat like composite Outrage Tom Foster is paddling in his videos. You cannot free spin the SRT in whitewater like a radically rockered whitewater hull. The stern is too sticky. You have to rely mostly on eddline shear for eddy turns and peel outs.

The sticky stern may be contributing to a difficulty with back ferrying. To set the angle, I'd probably lean back to lighten the bow and set the angle with a bow draw, bow sweep or bow pry. I'd probably maintain the angle with alternating reverse strokes and cross-reverse strokes. Alternatively, if you're really strong with a reverse J stroke, you could try that, which may be more or less effective depending on whether your paddle is on the upstream or downstream side when ferrying. This video demonstrates both methods of solo reverse paddling:

 

[Art D]

No, the SRT isn't designed to be paddled exclusively from in front of the paddler. I've paddled mine next to Harold Deal in his, and he paddled it like a normal canoe with a typical battery of bow and stern strokes.

However, since the rocker is asymmetrical with a pinched stern, the SRT may be easier to turn in some circumstances with bow draws or pries rather than stern strokes. You can also enhance stern slide turning by pitching your weight forward, along with a heel, to lift and release the stern. Alternatively, if you have the SRT adjustable seat, you could adjust it further forward to release the stern more for flat water and whitewater turns.

No, the SRT is not a whitewater playboat like composite Outrage Tom Foster is paddling in his videos. You cannot free spin the SRT in whitewater like a radically rockered whitewater hull. The stern is too sticky. You have to rely mostly on eddline shear for eddy turns and peel outs.

The sticky stern may be contributing to a difficulty with back ferrying. To set the angle, I'd probably lean back to lighten the bow and set the angle with a bow draw, bow sweep or bow pry. I'd probably maintain the angle with alternating reverse strokes and cross-reverse strokes. Alternatively, if you're really strong with a reverse J stroke, you could try that, which may be more or less effective depending on whether your paddle is on the upstream or downstream side when ferrying. This video demonstrates both methods of solo reverse paddling:

Thank you, Glenn. This is exactly the kind of advice I was hoping for. Very much appreciated.

 

[Dirigo]

Great suggestions Glenn. Moving your body mass to on-side to off-side, bow, mid or astern helps to reduce hull contact with the water and aids greatly to the effort being attempted.

Art, in a few months let’s get on the Ducktrap and figure some of these details out. I have two solo play boats you’re welcome to use. Put-in on Rt. 52 and take-out in brackish water. The Ducktrap is a beauty with perhaps the most attractive take-out. Looking out onto Penobscot Bay and Seven Hundred Acre and Islesboro Islands.

 

[Art D]

Great suggestions Glenn. Moving your body mass to on-side to off-side, bow, mid or astern helps to reduce hull contact with the water and aids greatly to the effort being attempted.

Art, in a few months let’s get on the Ducktrap and figure some of these details out. I have two solo play boats you’re welcome to use. Put-in on Rt. 52 and take-out in brackish water. The Ducktrap is a beauty with perhaps the most attractive take-out. Looking out onto Penobscot Bay and Seven Hundred Acre and Islesboro Islands.

I will take you up on that! I was thinking about hitting the St. George again this weekend, if you're interested. Otherwise, I'll reach out in early March.

 

[Dirigo]

Sounds great Art. However, this weekend is dedicated to the reindeer !

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

let’s get on the Ducktrap

Put-in on Rt. 52

Seven Hundred Acre and Islesboro Islands

Dirigo, as I request from and again remind everyone, it would be very helpful if you all would put your location in your Account Details page in your profile, which will make it show up under your avatar, so the rest of us know where you are. This is a geographic sport for many topics.

 

[ppine]

I went to forestry school with some Japanese guys. I liked every one of them.
Spreading the Qwann.
People from lots of countries try to emulate Americans. If these guys learned to paddle from books and videos, then that video is impressive.
Better than the majority of people I paddle with.