It CAN happen to you

[yellowcanoe]

Darren Bush has written a non judgmental blog about the recent kayak fatality in Chile where Doug Tompkins the founder of North Face an accomplished outdoorsman died
It's at silent sports.net date 2/05/16

 

[Iskweo]

YC...I was reading an article on that today and it sounds like it was not one big thing but a series of small oversights that caught up with them. A balky rudder on the kayak... not wearing cold weather gear... deteriorating weather. All things that each of us has done. Sometimes at the same time just like these guys.

Overconfidence looks to be the main culprit. From what I read there was a weather condition equivalent to a small craft warning at the time they departed. Which may have been manageable given their experience but then the weather reallllllly went bad on them and it was too much given all the other little problems.

A drysuit might have made all the difference in survival. Sad really.

 

[yellowcanoe]

But I have done the same thing. Too lazy to put the dry suit on because it's too hot. I just happened to dump on LakeSuperior near a rock

 

[Dagger]

Is it laziness, or do some threats just don't appear very likely to us, even if they are? We tend to feel save in our cars, yet accident and fatality statistics show we probably shouldn't. Moreover, the longer we get away with a behavior, the more confident we are with the way we do things. I tend to become comfortable around dangerous activities, such working with chain saws. I am not oblivious to the inherent dangers, but I admit, it takes a conscious effort to put on all my safety gear before I use my saws. The effort seems more burdensome if I intend to only saw for a very short period of time, or if I paddle that same stretch of the river I have paddled so often. A very short sighted type of cost-benefit analysis, I am sure I am not the only one guilty of.
Luck is when preparation meets opportunity. I suppose un-luck is when preparation wasn't as good as it could have been. I suppose at the end it all comes down to judgment, but I know I'm in no position to through stones...

 

[Guest]

Is it laziness, or do some threats just don't appear very likely to us, even if they are? We tend to feel save in our cars, yet accident and fatality statistics show we probably shouldn't. Moreover, the longer we get away with a behavior, the more confident we are with the way we do things. I tend to become comfortable around dangerous activities, such working with chain saws. I am not oblivious to the inherent dangers, but I admit, it takes a conscious effort to put on all my safety gear before I use my saws. The effort seems more burdensome if I intend to only saw for a very short period of time, or if I paddle that same stretch of the river I have paddled so often. A very short sighted type of cost-benefit analysis, I am sure I am not the only one guilty of.
Luck is when preparation meets opportunity. I suppose un-luck is when preparation wasn't as good as it could have been. I suppose at the end it all comes down to judgment, but I know I'm in no position to through stones...

It isn’t just over-confidence, or short sightedness or poor preparation. In final analysis “accidents” are most often an accumulated combination of factors. A traffic accident might be a combination of unsafe speed, poor road conditions, bad tires and driver inexperience. Remove any one of those factors and the accident may never have happened.

Chainsawing, inattentive tired, rushing, bad position, missing safety gear. Paddling, unforeseen weather, no immersion gear, sudden complication far from shore.

Modern airliners are incredibly reliable, with multiple back up and safety systems. Most airline accidents turn out to be an accumulation of onetwothree things all going wrong at once.

I saw this over on CCR a few days ago. It is simplistic but rings true; I never thought of them as “lemons”, but with experience I have come to recognize when I am holding too many. Of course that recognition comes from the experience of having juggled too many lemons and having paid the price or nearly so.

http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=44674

 

[Iskweo]

Yes breaking the chain of events is the best way to prevent an accident. Stop doing what you are doing and re assess.

For instance. I am the queen of not wearing my PFD. Its only a river etc etc etc. Like chain saw chaps if you wear them everytime then it is one less thing to go wrong. Good footwear instead of sandals is like that also.

We took a basket full of lemons last year on our fishing trip when we decided to go out in rough weather. No one else was going out....we had not been out in a power boat in years.... there was really no need to go. So off we went and promptly took a massive wave over the bow of a 17.5 foot boat. Luckily at that point we admitted defeat and went back in. We never should have left the dock.

Into all of these scenarios we need to look at risk management processes and learn to adopt them. You can still end up in trouble due to unforseen things happening but at least you can avoid the things that you are aware of.

 

[Mihun09]

Yes breaking the chain of events is the best way to prevent an accident. Stop doing what you are doing and re assess.

For instance. I am the queen of not wearing my PFD. Its only a river etc etc etc. Like chain saw chaps if you wear them every time then it is one less thing to go wrong. Good footwear instead of sandals is like that also.

We took a basket full of lemons last year on our fishing trip when we decided to go out in rough weather. No one else was going out....we had not been out in a power boat in years.... there was really no need to go. So off we went and promptly took a massive wave over the bow of a 17.5 foot boat. Luckily at that point we admitted defeat and went back in. We never should have left the dock.

Into all of these scenarios we need to look at risk management processes and learn to adopt them. You can still end up in trouble due to unforeseen things happening but at least you can avoid the things that you are aware of.

I think a bit of frustration took over that day. We had rented a cabin and boat and had already been wind bound for 2 days. The wind was fetching the full length of the lake and had chased others off already, but I had to try...

We have done much worse. First ever non-Summer trip just after I moved out here. May long weekend, it snowed on the Friday, 11". We left Saturday instead. Snow in the bush, a week after ice out. Winter coats and boots on. Plenty of wind and Christy not aware I had little experience canoeing in wind, had no clue how to quarter and I was mighty uncomfortable in the bow quartering downwind on a big lake.

I had never dumped involuntarily before, we didn't that day but when we finally did it surprised both of us. In that instance it was a small river in July with very warm water. No harm done although a day later, no drinkable water, the stove was waterlogged, no fuel, a days paddle out had the eagles looking at us like their next meal.

 

[Guest]

I had never dumped involuntarily before, we didn't that day but when we finally did it surprised both of us. In that instance it was a small river in July with very warm water. No harm done although a day later, no drinkable water, the stove was waterlogged, no fuel, a days paddle out had the eagles looking at us like their next meal.

Karin, I expect there were a number of invaluable lessons learned that day.

A lot of risk management comes back to the (Will Rogers?) quote “Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment”.

I know didn’t know what I didn’t know ‘til I knew it firsthand. I may have read the precautions, or heardtell, or even kinda sorta known better, but nothing imprinted those lessons on my lemon weighing scale quite like the personal experience of poor judgment.

I try to bear that in mind when I see paddlers (or others) juggling too many lemons. If they are unlikely to die, have at it. At worst they’ll dodge the calamity, or be uncomfortable, and at best it will be a better lesson than anything I might impart.

 

[Dagger]

Was not familiar with the Lemon System...Love it!!!

 

[JagDaddy]

Saftey isn't a 'me' thing.

Not being mentally and physically prepared shows a lack of concern for everyone you boat with.

 

[Alan Gage]

A lot of risk management comes back to the (Will Rogers?) quote “Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment”.

I know didn’t know what I didn’t know ‘til I knew it firsthand. I may have read the precautions, or heardtell, or even kinda sorta known better, but nothing imprinted those lessons on my lemon weighing scale quite like the personal experience of poor judgment.

I try to bear that in mind when I see paddlers (or others) juggling too many lemons. If they are unlikely to die, have at it. At worst they’ll dodge the calamity, or be uncomfortable, and at best it will be a better lesson than anything I might impart.

I feel the same way. I try to keep this in mind when tragedy strikes someone who seems ill prepared or in over their heads. The internet seems all to happy to pile on them with statements like "Darwinism at work". It's easy to forget that the reason most of us know what we do is because we've made similar mistakes and learned from them. So far we've been lucky, and I believe luck is a big part of it, to have the opportunity to learn from those mistakes. Some people, for whatever reason, aren't given that opportunity.

Often times I've wondered how close I've been to serious injury or death, perhaps without even knowing it. That time you stepped backwards and unknowingly placed your foot 1" from the ledge. That time your foot began to slip on the wet rock but then stopped after a few inches when it hit a dry spot or ridge (can't count how many times that's happened). Or the time stepping off the roof onto a ladder when the feet started to slide but miraculously caught on something and let you walk another day. No skill involved, just plain luck.

I always feel thankful when I can look back on my mistakes.

Alan

 

[Jim Dodd]

This topic brings to mind a safety inspector at a fertilizer plant I worked at.
He stated. "There is no such thing as an accident !"

I said what if you are walking from one building to another, in a rain storm? And a bolt of lighting strikes you ?

He said it was my fault ! I should not have been out in the rain !
I said what if my boss had told me to go from one building to another ? The Safety inspector said it would have been my boss's fault, for sending me out in the rain !

"There is no such thing as an accident, it's always some one's fault !"

Jim