If there is any confusion, promote native fish species and get rid of the others to the extent possible.
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Happy National Garlic Day! 🧄🚫🧛🏼♂️
Invasive fish (northern pike) threatens Maine lakes. Huh?
- Thread starter Glenn MacGrady
- Start date
Hayden Lake in Idaho doesn't seem to have an insurmountable problem with housing non-native northern pike along with salmon, bass, trout and other game fish. They control the pike with gill netting and unlimited catching.
"The exceptionally clear waters of this lake are teeming with game fish, including bass (largemouth and smallmouth), bullhead catfish, kokanee salmon, yellow perch, rainbow trout, sunfish (such as bluegill and pumpkinseed), and white crappie. But the game fish that had all of Idaho talking in March 2023 was the northern pike."
. . . .
"The northern pike is classified as a game fish in Idaho. The lakes where northern pikes have been illegally introduced have ironically become some of the state’s most popular fisheries. In a seeming contradiction, this non-native fish that has created an ecological problem has also been an economic positive. Large numbers of anglers such as Thomas Francis purchase state fishing licenses to target this aggressive, hard-fighting fish.
"In the state’s efforts to suppress the number of northern pike in its northern lakes, fishing for the species is unregulated. IDFG wants anglers to remove as many northern pike as possible from the state’s waters, so there are no limits on pike harvests. Catch-and-release pike tournaments are prohibited.
"When anglers harvest northern pike from these waters, it’s a win-win."
"The exceptionally clear waters of this lake are teeming with game fish, including bass (largemouth and smallmouth), bullhead catfish, kokanee salmon, yellow perch, rainbow trout, sunfish (such as bluegill and pumpkinseed), and white crappie. But the game fish that had all of Idaho talking in March 2023 was the northern pike."
. . . .
"The northern pike is classified as a game fish in Idaho. The lakes where northern pikes have been illegally introduced have ironically become some of the state’s most popular fisheries. In a seeming contradiction, this non-native fish that has created an ecological problem has also been an economic positive. Large numbers of anglers such as Thomas Francis purchase state fishing licenses to target this aggressive, hard-fighting fish.
"In the state’s efforts to suppress the number of northern pike in its northern lakes, fishing for the species is unregulated. IDFG wants anglers to remove as many northern pike as possible from the state’s waters, so there are no limits on pike harvests. Catch-and-release pike tournaments are prohibited.
"When anglers harvest northern pike from these waters, it’s a win-win."
Largest Northern Pike Ever Caught in Idaho Was An Absolute Monster
I believe in Mid-Atlantic states the muskie that are stocked are what they call tiger muskie, a hybrid between northern pike and muskellunge. Because they are a hybrid, they are unable to reproduce, and thus they do not establish themselves in the same way the northern pike are doing in Maine...
There is no shortage of places in which one may catch a pike if one so desires. Just say'n.
I am a fishermen, fish eater, biologist and an ecologist. For years local F&G Depts planted introduced fish species. Those days are coming to an end. Our society has evolved in their view of which species are desirable. We have plenty of Brook trout, Kokanee salmon, Brown trout, Lake trout and other species in the West in places where they were never native. Now some native trout sub-speies are being promoted for the first time. I think native species are what should be there. It will take a long time for some fisheries to recover and some never will.
Lake Tahoe might be a good example. The Lake had an impressive poplulaton of native Lahontan cutthroat trout. They were huge up to 40 pounds. The local tribes, especially the Washoes relied on them in summer for protein. During the first Mining Era around 1860-1880 the Comstock Lode was developed at Virginia City, NV concurrent with the gold fields in the Sierra Nevada. The Lake was commercially fished. Some time after 1900 the local trout populaton was extirpated. CA and NV Fish and Game Depts introduced lake trout and kokanee salmon into the Lake. Although there are some large rainbow trout and Brown trout found in the Lake today, neither are native.
The USFWS has released some native cutthroats back into the Lake. Their source has been some remote water sheds in parts of Nevada mountain ranges. Same with the native fish in Pyramid Lake. Since lake trout are pescatorious, it is very problematic about how to get rid of them in such an enormous Lake. Yellowstone Lake has a similar problem. Some of our decision making as a society in the past will haunt us well into the future.
The USFWS has released some native cutthroats back into the Lake. Their source has been some remote water sheds in parts of Nevada mountain ranges. Same with the native fish in Pyramid Lake. Since lake trout are pescatorious, it is very problematic about how to get rid of them in such an enormous Lake. Yellowstone Lake has a similar problem. Some of our decision making as a society in the past will haunt us well into the future.
Agreed. Hate the universal DH.
Yes, because I think most natural systems should be attuned to the betterment of the species homo sapiens rather than some other species. Should homo sapiens take a salmoncentric or pikecentric or wolfcentric position instead?
Folks here rave about walleye as a game and eating fish. But biologists in Utah know, just know, that walleye are EVIL.
Invasive fish species caught at Strawberry Reservoir, believed to be 'illegally introduced'
The Utah Division of Wildlife Resources says an invasive fish was recently caught at a popular reservoir, and they believe someone illegally brought the fish from another location.
www.fox13now.com
"Strawberry Reservoir is stocked with cutthroat trout, rainbow trout and kokanee salmon. The DWR said that based on surveys, these fish are preferred by most people who fish there.
“'Walleye could easily disrupt our ability to manage the current trout and salmon populations at Strawberry Reservoir through competition and direct predation as a predator fish,' said Alan Ward, a DWR fisheries biologist."
That DWR and biologist seem thoroughly anthropocentric to me. Genesis 1:28 would approve, even if read only as a mythological interpretation of human experience, as would be consistent with this site's rules.
Personally I hate when I travel in the country and see the same dang chain stores and restaurants in every town. And while I don't fish much, I'd rather not have the exact same fish in every river, pond and lake.
And therein lies the catch. If you believe that the world is here to solely benefit man, then I guess you feel we can do what we want as long as mankind benefits. If you believe that the non-human world has intrinsic value independent of their direct value to man, then there is a lot we can do to support this intrinsic value, sometimes conceding that there may be a human cost. I, and probably most scientists, fall in that category. These are contrasting ontological positions based on culture, religion, etc.
So are you speaking for all of us? That we all want introduced game fish in our streams and lakes?
And back in New England western rainbow trout (along with Eurasian brown trout) are stocked in native brook trout streams. We just can't leave well enough alone. ;-)
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Does not take a genius to look up all the bad things that have happened when mankind introduced invasive species to the natural environment.
Never. I only ever speak for myself, with which anyone is free to disagree. My opinions are based on facts and principles as I understand them and will change if and when my understanding changes.
My problem with tinkering with nature is that I believe most such systems are too complex, or too outright chaotic such as weather and climate, for anyone to predict much less control accurately. Therefore, my default position is to maximize any necessary tinkering for human welfare.
That's the problem, Glenn. Not everyone wants walleye and northern pike introduced for sport fishing; so are we supposed to just go along with it because other people do? There's probably a compromise that could work for both opinions but if the pro-game fish crowd takes things into their own hands the results are most often irreversible.
Many introduced species are very beneficial or neutral. Just focusing on North America, chickens, goats, cattle, horses, pigs, honey bees and thousands of other animal and plant species have been beneficial or neutral though non-native and introduced by colonists.
"Invasive" is a loaded term that cannot necessarily be determined a priori. A non-native species, sometimes introduced because it was thought to be beneficial by naturalists or scientists du jour, often turn out to be deleteriously "invasive" only (long) after the fact.
As to game fish, which this thread was started about, the concept of "invasiveness" seems to be mostly a function of their desirability as sport fish or eating fish in different areas of the continent. Manipulative stocking of native and/or non-native species for these purely anthropocentric reasons seems to be ubiquitous.
soo, you've never heard of the feral hogs that are decimating half of the continent, tearing up plants, watersheds, and forests, and killing small birds, animals, and insects???
It is. The questions are: (1) should we continue to do it in the areas where non-native fish have not yet been introduced and (2) can it be reversed where it has already happened? Here in the DC/MD/VA area someone released snakeheads into some ponds in the early 2000s. Snakeheads are considered a delicacy in certain Asian cuisines but are also a voracious predator. It can also "walk" considerable distances on land to get from waterbody to waterbody. They made efforts to eradicate it with poisons and electricity and instituted "catch and kill" fishing regs, but to no avail. Now this fish is well established in the Potomac and threatens the native sport fishery. But fisherman also think they are good sport fish.
https://dnr.maryland.gov/fisheries/Documents/SHData.pdf
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It's human nature to want to "improve" things for ourselves and for future generations and the degree to which our actions improve anything is usually very subjective. In their haste to implement improvements, people who are confident in their own superior cognitive abilities often overlook (or simply ignore) the deleterious effects of their actions and those unintended consequences become their legacy.
I think this is pretty accurate. I don't believe we as humans really care all that much about future generations. I think we think we do and we definitely say we do but mostly I think we just do what we want and use the "future generations" thing as a justification.
Alan
