Help deciding on a solo tripping canoe design

[jffdejongh]

So I'm finally pulling the trigger on a solo canoe build. I've been paddling an Old Town Appalachian ABS tandem as a solo for tripping. I'm 6'2" and 235# so I can reach pretty well over either side. So far I can keep up with tandems on the water but the canoe seems to get about 5 pounds heavier each year. I paddle sitting 70%, kneeling 25% and poling 5%.

After perusing this and other sites I think I've narrowed it down to the Green Valley Raven. The 15' length and 32" beam seems like it will be faster and the asymmetrical rocker will maintain the maneuverability but help maintaining tracking on flat water.

I'm also thinking of re-purposing the planking of an old canvas canoe.

I welcome all thoughts.

Jeff

 

[Roybrew]

Interesting. I'm looking forward to your build.

 

[Jim Dodd]

If serious about a light weight canoe ? I'd advise a composite build !

If you are determined to build a stripper, there are many plans to fit your needs. North West Canoe has several, that are free to download.

https://northwestcanoe.com/

The Merlin would be my choice, unless you can talk them into printing the 38 Spl. ( Bruce Kunz design) for you. If I remember right, around $85.

I built the 38, I believe my 4th or 5th hull. back in the 90s. I still have it, and love it.
Relatively easy to build stemless design, with good Tumblehome !

Another option ? Contact Alan Gage, and see if you could get plans for his Bloodvein ?

There are a ton of designs out there ! I'm sure you can find what will fill your needs.

Edit !!!!!!!! By the way ! Welcome to the site ! Great bunch of People !


Jim

 

[memaquay]

I built the Raven, I believe I might have been the first to build it s a stripper. It is my favourite solo, I can't song it's praises loud enough. For a fella your size, it will be perfect. Mine saw a lot of miles, several thousand in fact. The raven in royalex had the reputation for being a dog on the flats, but I did not find this to be the case at all. It was great in big waves, white water, or for just cranking the miles out on the flats. It's big too, holds lots of gear. Build it, you won't be disappointed.

After a while, I painted it red on the outside too.

 

[yellowcanoe]

My Raven in RX was a bit of a dog on an opposing tide ( 3 knots or so) but it handled big ocean waves pretty well. I lent it to an "expert" on the Allagash. We started the trip at Chase Rapids and he ran the whole rapids sitting down in the bottom.. Hanging on for dear life. The boat knew just what to do. It read lines really well and deposited its "paddler" at Bissonette two miles later warm and dry spitting and fuming about the instability of the boat. Needless to say he was always far behind as he did not know how to paddle.

Great river boat! The "paddler" finished as bow ornament in an Old Town Tripper and found that squirrely too...... lol.. Somehow the Raven picked up speed after his departure from it.

 

[stevet]

Had a Tripper as the second canoe we ever owned many moons ago.....and how anyone could find that thing "squirrely" I'll never understand.Think you could dance an Irish jig (even in the bow) and never be in peril.

 

[Cruiser]

I have a soft spot for the Freedom Solo from Bear Mountain, in fact I have built 2 of them ... haven't been in anything else that is any better, lots are about the same, but is a very nice boat and strips easily.

Brian

 

[jffdejongh]

Jim- Thanks for your thoughts. The merlin is a little small for me since I want to be able to pole and my balance is not better than average. I totally agree about composite being the light weight way to go, but since I have cedar and experience building strippers, this will be an easier and cheaper build. You do have me thinking of the next build (if my wife lets me ). Building composite Raven off the Raven I'm going to build this winter.

Memaquay- I've lurked on your battle of the birds build. The first picture you posted is one of the 3 images Martin Step sent me last year when I was starting to get serious about building a solo. Since my Appalachian is about 90#, getting my build to be around 50# would be great. Since I seem to either paddle really shallow water (Allagash the last 2 seasons) or that I'm a rock magnet, I'll need to make it strong enough.

yellowcanoe- I can picture the person hanging for dear life going down Chase rapids. Since the royalex Raven could pick the route, maybe a strip version would make me less of the rock magnet.

Cruiser- I've looked carefully at the Freedom but it also seems a little small for my needs.

These ideas have helped me cement that the Raven is the best design for me at this point. While going through Alan Gage's strip Bloodvein build and his description of using delftship started me thinking... but then I realized that as I was switching from paddling sea kayaks, I thought the Redbird from Canoecraft would be a good idea for a river tripping canoe. It is a great lake canoe as it tracks very well, but it's not that maneuverable.

I'll be ordering the plans tomorrow.

 

[Jim Dodd]

It's good to weigh all the options, and there are a lot of them !

Knowing what you want is a good start. I missed the poling part. Tried this Summer to pole, my old aluminum, like I USED to. It wasn't comfortable anymore, so I sat down !

Yes,
you will need a broader hull, than we have suggested !

Beings you have the experience of building Strippers. Building something different, is intriguing !

Share your build as we ALL love a new build !

 

[Jim Dodd]

Some ideas that I would look for in a hull for poling and paddling. They are opposites, and therefore compromises must be made.

I would look for some rocker, no more than 1 1/2", more and it can get doggy paddling. Again in My View.

A hull 33 -34" width at the waterline, for stability while standing.

A partial Flat bottom to ride high in shallow water. Partial as a compromise

Flare, the bow and stern, for aid in turning, and bouncing against waves, instead of cutting them. Ease of gear loading and a drier ride in rougher water..

I'm a big fan of Tumblehome, just not the Shouldered kind. It's more work to build. The first Shouldered Tumblehome hull I paddled was the Magic. The Only thing I have against it ? I hit the hull with my paddle. Some say you just need to paddle it more, and that will go away. That may be true.

Lastly length. I favor a hull in the 16' range for tripping. As you probably know 16' lumber without splicing strips, can only build about a 15' 8" hull. Why throw wood away that could be a canoe ? Length will also give you speed.

Take a look at how I flattened the hull design on my Nokomis. It's very stable.

https://www.canoetripping.net/forums/forum/paddlecraft-construction/37923-nokomis-build

Just my $.02 worth.

Jim

 

[DaveO]

Nice pithy summary of opposites, and so compromises must be made.

 

[jffdejongh]

Jim, what are the beam, depth and sheer dimensions for Nokomis?

Besides the Raven I have considered a prospector styled hull. 33 inches wide, 15-15.5 feet long 14-15" deep but with less sheer than a traditional prospector.

You've got my mind racing (never a good thing) . I saw that Alan used delftship software for the Bloodvein. Are there other free ware that make it easy to render canoe shapes??

Jeff

 

[memaquay]

I think of all the dedicated solo's out there, the Raven is the only one I would confidently pole from, although having said that, I have never poled from it, but have stood up and paddled many times while scouting rapids, hunting, etc. Not sure how an asymmetrical hull would pole though, so perhaps a small symmetrical prospector hull might be better. Always trade offs, but if the bulk of your use will be paddling, consider a dedicated solo.

 

[jffdejongh]

I downloaded delftship, remembered the steep learning curve, and promptly went back to the Raven. I'm glad you can stand up in yours. That means I have a shot at being able to standing in mine once it's built.

 

[dcloots]

This thread is starting to give me the itch again to start another build. Have you decided on the Raven? Also I would be curious to learn from Memaquay exactly what paint product that he used for his canoe. Best of luck with your decision and your build. Jim Dodd said it well, there are indeed great people on this forum that are more than willing to help with building advice and willing to share their knowledge. Look forward to seeing your progress.

 

[memaquay]

I usually use Tremclad, think it's called Rustoleum in the States. Roll on three coats, and it's a thing of beauty, lol.

 

[jffdejongh]

Since there's no snow in Maine to ski on, I brought the husk of the Old Town Guide into my basement shop. After about 45 minutes I realized that although it would be a nice tribute to re-purpose the planking it was going to take too long to take off and then I'd have to clean them up before I could use them. I looked around in and see that I already have 6 4" wide planks 8 feet long plus quite a few clear cedar scraps from our school shop (before it closed). Now I'll have to look for some more stripping cedar.

 

[jffdejongh]

I usually use Tremclad, think it's called Rustoleum in the States. Roll on three coats, and it's a thing of beauty, lol.

Did you tip the paint out with a foam brush after rolling, or just let the paint level on it's own (as much as it will)? Lowe's has Rustoleum marine paint that's significantly cheaper than the marine paint I can get from Petit or Z-spar. I do think it's a little thinner, but that may help it level out.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Jim, what are the beam, depth and sheer dimensions for Nokomis?

Jeff

I hadn't forgot you Jeff ! Just too busy around here to get some measurements. Crawled into the canoe loft, as my forms were buried.

Nokomis is 31.5" at it's widest point, about the 5" waterline.

Sheer width is 26.25" to the outside, with 3/8" outwhales.

12" depth midship.

I should have posted these in the original thread. I will now.

How wide is the Raven at the shear, and widest ?

Jim

Oh ! Happy New Year !

 

[jffdejongh]

Nokomis is 31.5" at it's widest point, about the 5" waterline.

Sheer width is 26.25" to the outside, with 3/8" outwhales.

12" depth midship.

How wide is the Raven at the shear, and widest ?

Jim

Oh ! Happy New Year !

Thanks for the measurements Jim, Below is the lines drawing for the Raven. It's max beam is 32 1/4" with a waterline beam of 29" and center depth of 14". I think it should be a great improvement for weight, beam, and handling compared to paddling my OT Appalachian solo (36" beam, 15" deep and 90 pounds. Even if I build the Raven heavy, it will be a whole lot lighter than what I'm currently portaging.

I spent time in my shop looking at spare plywood for my strongback and will be getting that put together tomorrow.

I've ripped my cedar on a band saw and most often on a table saw but I'm going to try your method on this build. Just the thought of bringing the strongback outside and being able to clean up with a leaf blower will be so much better!