Food handling while tripping

[Gamma1214]

I would caution against putting water in with your fish. You are potentially adding bacteria, and the water will help that bacteria grow faster. You can also add Giardia. To kill Giardia you need to boil your water, and when cooking fish you don't usually add that much heat.

In order to prevent thread drift, I'll ask here if the general consensus is that I'm being reckless...

I've always used Nalgene bottles for storing fish on trips. I don't want dead fish laying in my boat all day or fish carcasses in camp so my solution has always been to pull ashore, clean the fish, stuff the meat into a Nalgene bottle and fill it with lake water. The bottle is more easily managed on portages than a stringer would be, the water soaks the remaining blood from the filets and I can change the water to keep the fish cool until it's time for a shore lunch or supper.

Now, in the above comment, I suspect that Al may be being overly cautious (not always a bad thing) but water boils at 212° F (100° C) and a frying pan is probably around 400° F (204° C) so I've never worried about any of that.

To me, it seems that any introduced pathogens would be on the surface of the fish and frying would be sufficient for safe consumption. (I know they say not to wash chicken now- theory being that you spread bacteria in the sink when washing and the heat of cooking will kill anything harmful anyway)

Have I just been unusually lucky doing it like I do?

How do you deal with transporting fish on trips? Do you wait until you reach camp?... Use a stringer?... Bring it frozen from home?

 

[ppine]

Don't catch more than you can eat that day. Hang em in a tree in the shade. Cook em for lunch. Cook em for dinner.

 

[lowangle al]

I may be overly cautious, but bacteria growth is a function of time and temperature. I like the idea of storing the fillets in the bottle, it's adding water that increases the chance of adding bacteria. With or without adding the water you will probably be OK since you won't be holding the fish long. Your variables would be the temp of the water where you catch the fish, the ambient air temp and the length of time it will be in there.

If the fish is warm from being caught in warm water you have less time. Given enough time and warm enough temps the bacteria could go deep into the fillet. Even though your oil might be 400f I doubt the inside of your fillet will be. I don't like to cook my fish higher than probably 160 or 170f. The best way to transport your fish would be to head and gut them rather than fillet them. Store them in the shade with some airflow. For ease of transport on portages you can still use the Nalgene or a ziplock bag, but shelf life will be less.

I'm no expert on this, but from my time in the food industry as QC manager, I had worked with a microbiologist to develop safe practices to satisfy the requirements of a major customer. (Kraft Foods)

 

[Odyssey]

I've seen fisher folk fillet their catch and store those in Ziploc bags stored out of the sun. Prepped and eaten later same day.

 

[MichaelMerry]

I've seen fisher folk fillet their catch and store those in Ziploc bags stored out of the sun. Prepped and eaten later same day.

This is how I’ve always handled it and have yet to get sick.

On a trip last year, we caught a couple of large fish just after lunch that we’d have for dinner. We did the fillet in zip lock thing. Severe storms delayed our travel and it ended up being about 8 hours before we ate those fish. I was a bit nervous, but fellow trippers convinced me to cook them. In this case, my fear caused me to crumble the fish in the pan and basically deep fry the nuggets in butter.

I’m still kicking.

 

[Erica]

Jacques was in charge of the fishing, storage and preparation. He would gut the fish and then wrap it in an old, wet, linen dish towel. He’d store it in the bow right on the bottom of the boat. It always stayed cool there. He’d rinse the towel every now and then to keep it cool and fresh. It was always good, in much better condition than fish purchased from the grocery store.

Gamma, I wouldn’t store fish in water just because I think it would negatively affect the taste and texture.

I also spent a lot of years being a microbiologist. There is a lot of latitude in what professionals consider safe. I am certain food inspectors have very high standards. Al’s recommendations should be taken seriously. OTOH, A Frenchman who leaves a lot of food at room temperature because it tastes better that way, has a more casual attitude. In my 20 years with him, I ate a lot of very good food and never once got sick.

 

[lowangle al]

Fish, or food in general, lasts longer than you would expect, but I think it would last longer without water in with it. A gutted fish will last longer than fillets, and the wet towel method that Erica mentioned would be ideal.

Personally I'm not as concerned as most people about leaving food out. I used to hang rings of smoked sausage from my rear view mirror to dry them into a salami. I've made sandwiches for trips that lasted four or five days. Food can stand a little temperature abuse before it goes bad, and I've been known to push the limits. Come to think of it, I ended up in the hospital twice for small bowel obstructions caused by something I ate.

Properly handled and stored fish can last a couple weeks easily. The "fresh" fish you buy at the store is probably at least a week old at best. Fishing boats can go out for multiple days and the fish caught on the first day aren't as fresh as the fish caught on the last day. Then it's another day or two to get to a distributer, where it could take up to a week or more to get through a large tote before being delivered to the retailer. Once the fish is filleted it only lasts a few days and by the time you get the fish home it has very little life left.

Old time Norwegian halibut fisherman used to go out for a month or more before there was refrigeration.

 

[lowangle al]

I should add that the two times I ended up in the hospital it was parasites, not bacteria. To prevent this don't eat raw fish without freezing it first and if you like your fish on the rare side don't eat the belly meat. If this happened to me on a trip I could have died.

 

[Erica]

I should add that the two times I ended up in the hospital it was parasites, not bacteria. To prevent this don't eat raw fish without freezing it first and if you like your fish on the rare side don't eat the belly meat. If this happened to me on a trip I could have died.

Good to know.

 

[dramey]

I catch and release. I like fishing but I don’t like to eat them.

 

[Gamma1214]

Interesting. I've seen people keep buckets of fish overnight (no water) to be cleaned in the morning but always thought it was better to knock them apart ASAP because I thought fish started to rot pretty quickly.

I've always soaked fish to remove more blood from the filets (I use salt water at home). Maybe I'll try going into the pan dry next trip and see if there's a difference. (My soaked fish is better than I can buy elsewhere... I can buy fresh Catfish, Walleye and Perch locally)

Usually, I catch & release until I get one hooked badly (treble hook in the gills, etc). That decides what's for supper and I've never kept more than I can eat at the next fire (I usually wish I'd kept another).

 

[Odyssey]

The common denominator here of course is cool temps. Whether in the bow of a canoe, steel hold of a ship, or shaded portion of a pack, they've all got to control temps to delay spoilage. I know this is obvious but...

 

[lowangle al]

Interesting. I've seen people keep buckets of fish overnight (no water) to be cleaned in the morning but always thought it was better to knock them apart ASAP because I thought fish started to rot pretty quickly.

I've always soaked fish to remove more blood from the filets (I use salt water at home). Maybe I'll try going into the pan dry next trip and see if there's a difference. (My soaked fish is better than I can buy elsewhere... I can buy fresh Catfish, Walleye and Perch locally)

Usually, I catch & release until I get one hooked badly (treble hook in the gills, etc). That decides what's for supper and I've never kept more than I can eat at the next fire (I usually wish I'd kept another).

Fish are actually easier to fillet the next day, as the meat firms up.

I'm mostly a catch and release guy too, but I would like to eat more perch and bluegills.

 

[scoutergriz]

I've been out on a Newfie fishing smack a few times (My daughter's godfather owned about 4 of them), and it's surprising how fast they process their fish- they get pulled out of the net, slid down a chute for processing where they're measured, either dumped onto a chute back to the water or gilled (they literally use either a knife or wirecutters to snip the bone and artery at the base of the gill, then go straight to the tank where there's a bed of ice, and layers added on top of every foot or so of fish. Modern ships even have refrigerated holds and ice plants. I'd say it takes less than a minute from net to hold in smaller or older ships. Larger ships usually have their own processing line that cleans and trims the fish (depending on species the head, tail, and fins are removed) and sends it down for boxing where the box is on a scale for continuous monitoring for weight, which is then marked and sent to a specialized hold refrigerated to about -4f/-20c. in those boats everything after the gilling is done in a refrigerated space; even with boxing the entire process only takes 2-3 minutes. Fish being sold as fresh is usually dropped at a tender, which is usually a floating processing factory, every morning, and transshipped by noon to make it to the wholesaler before end of day for further processing and overnight shipment , higher end ones like bluefin tuna, wild sockeye salmon, and trout are usually air shipped to the customer, some tenders even use sea planes or helicopters to move the fish to shore.
You don't want fish worth tens or even hundreds of dollars per pound arriving at the customer starting to go off, simply because quality means more money...
As for me? I prefer to keep it alive on a stringer as long as possible, but if I have to dispatch it for later eating I gill, gut, and remove the head, pack them in an old towel kept wet and keep them out of the sun and wind( wind can dry out the fish), and plan to eat them within 4-5 hours, above 80F/27c I won't keep them unless I can keep them alive

 

[lowangle al]

I've been out on a Newfie fishing smack a few times (My daughter's godfather owned about 4 of them), and it's surprising how fast they process their fish- they get pulled out of the net, slid down a chute for processing where they're measured, either dumped onto a chute back to the water or gilled (they literally use either a knife or wirecutters to snip the bone and artery at the base of the gill, then go straight to the tank where there's a bed of ice, and layers added on top of every foot or so of fish. Modern ships even have refrigerated holds and ice plants. I'd say it takes less than a minute from net to hold in smaller or older ships. Larger ships usually have their own processing line that cleans and trims the fish (depending on species the head, tail, and fins are removed) and sends it down for boxing where the box is on a scale for continuous monitoring for weight, which is then marked and sent to a specialized hold refrigerated to about -4f/-20c. in those boats everything after the gilling is done in a refrigerated space; even with boxing the entire process only takes 2-3 minutes. Fish being sold as fresh is usually dropped at a tender, which is usually a floating processing factory, every morning, and transshipped by noon to make it to the wholesaler before end of day for further processing and overnight shipment , higher end ones like bluefin tuna, wild sockeye salmon, and trout are usually air shipped to the customer, some tenders even use sea planes or helicopters to move the fish to shore.
You don't want fish worth tens or even hundreds of dollars per pound arriving at the customer starting to go off, simply because quality means more money...
As for me? I prefer to keep it alive on a stringer as long as possible, but if I have to dispatch it for later eating I gill, gut, and remove the head, pack them in an old towel kept wet and keep them out of the sun and wind( wind can dry out the fish), and plan to eat them within 4-5 hours, above 80F/27c I won't keep them unless I can keep them alive

Yeah, proper handling of commercially caught fish requires a lot of ice, even when under refrigeration. Every possible step is taken to keep the fish in good condition, and the industry has gotten a lot better over the years. Up until about 50 years ago in the Ak gill net sockeye fishery they used to use pitchforks to unload fish. They discovered this introduced bacteria and was outlawed.

How the fish are caught also makes a difference in fish quality. For salmon the best quality fish are troll caught kings, caught on a hook and line and each fish is landed and handled separately. They are the most valuable.

For fish like cod and halibut long lines are the best, although pots are also used for cod. The worst quality fish come from the mega trawlers. They can haul in between 100-400 metric tons is one net. Once the fish gets processed it is usually frozen at sea, which is good. But it has already been abused from being crushed in that massive net. It's a terrible fishery for the environmen, but it enables us to have cheap and tasty filet-o-fish sandwiches and brings in a ton of money for the industry.