I am wondering about a ballpark estimate of fly-in cost for a Thelon river trip. Put in Eyeberry Lake. Take out Beverly Lake. I heard a cost that made me think it is out of the question for someone of my means. Can anyone give me an idea of what that would cost?
-
Happy (Ancient) May Day! 🎀💈💃🏼🧺💐🍴
fly-in cost?
- Thread starter larry
- Start date
Hard to give an accurate estimate without knowing where you are flying from, returning to and what type of aircraft you need (exterior load, number of people etc.)
For a Beaver you are looking at about $10/mile, double the distance because you are paying for both directions on each flight.
For a Beaver you are looking at about $10/mile, double the distance because you are paying for both directions on each flight.
I agree with recped on the need for more details and the $10/mile as a reasonable current estimate for a Beaver.
Ahmic Air (Yellowknife) has some suggested destinations on their website with the 2016 rates. At that time a Beaver to Eyeberry (309 miles one-way) with 2 passengers, gear and an external canoe was $5300. I make Beverly 443 miles one way, for a guesstimate charge of $7500. Total ~$12,800. Plus inflation to rates since then.
Other options to fly in/out from might be Ft. Smith, Stony Rapids, Kasba Lodge. Which place would have the right plane for your group size and boats - pakboats, nestable boats, etc. could greatly affect cost per person.
There is no cheap flying anymore. The only good news is that rates up there will be in Canadian dollars.
wjmc
Ahmic Air (Yellowknife) has some suggested destinations on their website with the 2016 rates. At that time a Beaver to Eyeberry (309 miles one-way) with 2 passengers, gear and an external canoe was $5300. I make Beverly 443 miles one way, for a guesstimate charge of $7500. Total ~$12,800. Plus inflation to rates since then.
Other options to fly in/out from might be Ft. Smith, Stony Rapids, Kasba Lodge. Which place would have the right plane for your group size and boats - pakboats, nestable boats, etc. could greatly affect cost per person.
There is no cheap flying anymore. The only good news is that rates up there will be in Canadian dollars.
wjmc
Hard to say thank you when the news you get kind of hits you in the gut. But, I do appreciate the information recped and wjmc. I have only used a float plane once before to fly into the Fon Du Lac back around 2003. It was a long time ago and not nearly the distance I am looking at for the Thelon. We flew out of Points North and back from Black Lake, I think. I had no idea it was that expensive. I am not wealthy, work hard and make a simple living. So, this is just kind of a dream crusher. I will just have to be happy to do trips that are not as grand as the Thelon River, I guess. That or save for a long time. Thanks again you guys.
G
Guest
Guest
Great gugga mugga, I had no idea flyin costs were that prohibitive. 12 grand in Canadian is still 9 Gs US.
I spent 18 months on the road, crisscrossing the US from coast to coast twice, for less than 7 grand.
Granted that was in 1988 and 89, but I could still take a helluva long cross country paddling road trip, stopping along the way to paddle here and there, on 9,000 bucks. Even without resorting to stealing campground showers and drinking cheap beer, and pay for a bunch of trailer or jet boat river shuttles along the way.
If time constraints mattered I could cram a three paddling trips into three weeks cross country, with drive time spaced in between, for thousand bucks and change. Including gas, food and cheap site truck bed overnight lodging along the way. Between 1976 and 1989 I did just that, saving up every bit of leave time I had coming for a yearly cross country trip.
Living in Montana I expect you are familiar with the usual Missouri Breaks, Green, Colorado, etc western river stuff. Southern Rio Grande maybe?
Without knowing where you have lived or traveled, even the eastern Canadian Shield could be different. Or Florida as a winter escape, long Suwannee river trip, couple daytrip spring runs and south into the Everglades would be 3 very different venues, all within a days I-75 drive each. And very different from Montana in winter. Maybe a stop in the Ozarks en route back.
I never had dreams of a flyin trip, I knew I was too frugal. But every time I have travelled cross country I have come up with a couple new places I want to paddle someday, and a new routes I want to take to get there.
That is a good wish list to have always expanding and never finished.
All good ideas, Mike. I posted this morning looking for advice on an Alberta trip. I can be there in a long day. There are a ton of rivers up there and the scenery is amazing. Something about the northwoods calls me. It will be hard to let go of the barrenland dreams, but afraid I will be forced to unless I win the lottery. Yes, there are a bunch of rivers in the west I have never paddled just waiting for me. I hope to retire in a year or two and will have more time then. As a teacher my summers are pretty open, just have to find care for my bird dogs. I hope to paddle the Jefferson here in Montana this summer. Never done it. I always try to get a cancelled permit for the Smith. But, spending most of my time poking around on myccr.com looking into Alberta. Also, lots of stuff to paddle with road access in Northern Saskatchewan. With the new Phoenix coming, it's got me thinking about paddling more than I have in a few years. Hope you have a great season.
Gee Larry, I didn't mean to ruin your day. I'm not going to try and tell you that flying up north is cheap. For example, the Beaver in Points North last summer was going at $11.00 per mile. That is steep. But it seems you are a solo traveler and could get by with a smaller aircraft if one certified for an external load is available. In Ft. Smith, NWAL has a Cessna 185 which is certified to carry a canoe externally. The flights to Eyeberry and Beverly are slightly longer from Smith than from Yellowknfe, but based on the rates I saw last summer, the cost for your hypothetical trip would have been around $8,000 - far from cheap, but much better than the $12,800 in my example.
Last summer, Bear Paulsen of Northstar Canoes, also paddling a Phoenix, did an 18 day trip from Ft. Smith using NWAL. He flew 180 miles in to the headwaters of the Thoa River, paddled that rarely traveled river and continued to a takeout at Kozo Lake on the Taltson River, about 50 miles from Ft. Smith. I would say his air charter bill for that trip was probably around $2000, based on rates NWAL quoted me last summer.
There is a small charter operator operating a Cessna 185 out of Yellowknife - Open Water Charters - and last year his plane was also approved for external loads. I don't have exact figures for his rates, but I know a 100 mile flight northeast from Yellowknife will get you to the Barrens. You could explore that area a bit, then descend the Beaulieu River to Great Slave. From its mouth it is about a 50 mile flight to Yellowknife. I would expect that trip to come in under $2000, less if you chose or had time to paddle back to Yellowknife.
To sum up, there are lots of potential trips in the NWT - paddle in - paddle out, fly in-paddle out, fly in and out - which could probably suit your budget. Don't give up - not everyone paddling up there is a millionaire! Flight sharing and charter splitting may also be possibilities.
wjmc
Last summer, Bear Paulsen of Northstar Canoes, also paddling a Phoenix, did an 18 day trip from Ft. Smith using NWAL. He flew 180 miles in to the headwaters of the Thoa River, paddled that rarely traveled river and continued to a takeout at Kozo Lake on the Taltson River, about 50 miles from Ft. Smith. I would say his air charter bill for that trip was probably around $2000, based on rates NWAL quoted me last summer.
There is a small charter operator operating a Cessna 185 out of Yellowknife - Open Water Charters - and last year his plane was also approved for external loads. I don't have exact figures for his rates, but I know a 100 mile flight northeast from Yellowknife will get you to the Barrens. You could explore that area a bit, then descend the Beaulieu River to Great Slave. From its mouth it is about a 50 mile flight to Yellowknife. I would expect that trip to come in under $2000, less if you chose or had time to paddle back to Yellowknife.
To sum up, there are lots of potential trips in the NWT - paddle in - paddle out, fly in-paddle out, fly in and out - which could probably suit your budget. Don't give up - not everyone paddling up there is a millionaire! Flight sharing and charter splitting may also be possibilities.
wjmc
Last edited:
No worries at all wjmc. I do appreciate your follow-up post. Lots of good ideas in it. I would hope to go with at least one friend, but now you do have me thinking about a solo trip. My new Phoenix will be just over 30# and my old SRT is a little over 40#, I think. So, those might fit on a Cessna. If I do it with friends the cost could be split too. I think I was initially shocked at the cost, but that is wearing off a little. I'll just have to buy more lottery tickets! In reality, life is all about choices and priorities. You suggest a number of options that are cheaper, and I love sites like this one where people more experienced than me share their knowledge. It looks like there is a road all the way to Great Slave Lake on Google Earth. I spend a lot of time cruising around the north country on GE. Meanwhile, there are many rivers I can drive to that are left to explore.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2014
- Messages
- 1,550
- Reaction score
- 282
Lots of really great paddling in Manitoba as well...with road access. The other option here is you can fly commercial into the reserves on a Dash 8 and either paddle out or hop on down stream at another airport. Perimeter Airlines is the major player, having the larger aircraft. They have hubs in Winnipeg and Thompson. Everyone else flies King Airs and Metros...no good for canoes. Definitley not an option for time sensitive travel though. Things move at their own pace that far up.
Blue water aviation in Bissett, MB, often has back hauls available for the one way cost.around the Atikaki area.
You could do the Hayes out to Churchill and fly back to Thompson. That will get you your Barrens experience for less. Not really a good solo trip though...best done with others.
Christy
Blue water aviation in Bissett, MB, often has back hauls available for the one way cost.around the Atikaki area.
You could do the Hayes out to Churchill and fly back to Thompson. That will get you your Barrens experience for less. Not really a good solo trip though...best done with others.
Christy
Thank you for all the additional information, Christy. Every little bit helps.
As a solo paddler I can't justify the high float plane costs. So instead of a fly-in paddle out trip it's cheaper for me to take an extra 3 weeks off work with no pay and paddling in and paddle out. I'd much rather spend my time canoeing rather than working to pay for a plane ride. There are enough roads up north that you can drive to some great jump-off locations.
Of course not every job will allow you to take off for 4-6 weeks but you could always quit and find a new one when you get back. Might be worth it.
Alan
Of course not every job will allow you to take off for 4-6 weeks but you could always quit and find a new one when you get back. Might be worth it.
Alan
Hi Alan. Thanks for responding. What you say makes a lot of sense to me. I guess I hadn't really thought about what could be done spending a small part of the savings in terms of how much more time you have your paddle in the current. That connection jumped out from your post. I have the summers off, so I need to take more trips. I've been doing day trips for quite a few years and it's time to pull the tent out of the canoe rather than the truck more often. I found a guy that can house site for me and that makes it easier to leave my bird dogs. I'm going to have to do some more research and look into getting to the barren ground for less money. I saw that there appears to be a road all the way to Great Slave Lake on Google Earth. Not sure I want to paddle across it, but the flights from there have got to be cheaper. The main goal of paddling there for me is the chance to see muskoxen, caribou, grizzlies, wolves, and wolverine all together on the tundra. There's really no other ecosystem like it left in the world that has as little human impacts as the barren grounds that ring the Arctic. I have a serious interest in falcons and want to see gyrfalcons nesting on a cliff as I paddle past (or in some cases in the abandon nests of other raptors). I've seen lots of peregrines in the west, but the only gyrs have been migrants. Being able to float past eyries of both species would be a pretty special experience for me. Feeling the pull of the water against my paddle connects me to the earth in a way the hiking never has. I could drive to Alaska and see them, but I want to paddle past them. We found 5 peregrine eyries the last time some friends and I paddled the Smith River here in Montana. Watching them hunt is super cool. We had an adult peregrine chase a dove right through our campsite on that trip. You just don't have nearly as good a chance to see all the mammals when drifting past the forests here in the west. I've come across grizzlies hiking in the Rockies a few times, but want to see them on the tundra. There's another quality that it gives me in terms of solitude. You can sense you are a long, long way from civilization. We got a taste of it toward the end of the Waterfound River with my son many years ago. Wolf tracks on an esker we camped on where the trees were starting to get stunted and little. I hope to retire in a year or two and that should open things up more. It's fun to think about.
Would it be a good deal less expensive to use a packable canoe, like a Pakboat, instead of having to either strap a hard boat onto an airplane, or into that airplane? If you saved a few thousand dollars by using a pakboat it would make the purchase worthwhile. (I haven't been paying close attention to the math... sorry.) It could be that a Pakboat could let you get most of the way via regularly scheduled bush flights. ??? I've been to the arctic twice--it's special. John Muir said to save Alaska for last, that you wouldn't want to go anywhere else. 
Last edited:
The major saving with a Pakboat is the ability to fly-in out from remote communities on scheduled passenger flights. Unfortunately in the far north (north of 60) even these flights are quite expensive.
Even with a hardshell scheduled flights to or from communities that have the right aircraft doing their cargo runs can be an economical option for getting in or out.
Even with a hardshell scheduled flights to or from communities that have the right aircraft doing their cargo runs can be an economical option for getting in or out.
I have not used a pakboat myself, but have friends who use them and swear by them for simplifying northern logistics.
Where I have been travelling lately, the financial benefit from a pakboat would be limited: I would be chartering the same aircraft, and simply avoiding the external load surcharge for the legs the canoe is on the plane. However, in circumstances where using a pakboat(s) could enable a larger party to use the same aircraft, or allow use of a smaller aircraft, savings could be substantial.
One friend of mine has done a number of trips with his pakboat by flying on commercial flights to the small remote communities north of Yellowknife. I think he has saved a lot of money compared with charter rates by using this scheduled service. For example, Air Tindi charges $248 plus tax for a one way ticket to the village of Wekweeti on Snare Lake, about 120 miles north of Yellowknife. The Ahmic air charter rate for a Beaver to Snare Lake is about $2100, and $1400 would be a good rate for a Cessna. Even with excess baggage charges, the scheduled flight will be much cheaper.
As Recped points out, cargo can be a good option, but may require some patience. Cargo flights into remote communities are generally full, whereas flights out tend to have lots of space (and better rates). If you are really well organized, you could consider sending your hard shell in on the winter road network.. That would require more advance planning than I am usually capable of.
wjmc
Where I have been travelling lately, the financial benefit from a pakboat would be limited: I would be chartering the same aircraft, and simply avoiding the external load surcharge for the legs the canoe is on the plane. However, in circumstances where using a pakboat(s) could enable a larger party to use the same aircraft, or allow use of a smaller aircraft, savings could be substantial.
One friend of mine has done a number of trips with his pakboat by flying on commercial flights to the small remote communities north of Yellowknife. I think he has saved a lot of money compared with charter rates by using this scheduled service. For example, Air Tindi charges $248 plus tax for a one way ticket to the village of Wekweeti on Snare Lake, about 120 miles north of Yellowknife. The Ahmic air charter rate for a Beaver to Snare Lake is about $2100, and $1400 would be a good rate for a Cessna. Even with excess baggage charges, the scheduled flight will be much cheaper.
As Recped points out, cargo can be a good option, but may require some patience. Cargo flights into remote communities are generally full, whereas flights out tend to have lots of space (and better rates). If you are really well organized, you could consider sending your hard shell in on the winter road network.. That would require more advance planning than I am usually capable of.
wjmc
Pakboats look interesting, but having just bought a new canoe, I don't see another boat in my future for a while.
Larry, I have one you could look at. And there's always a possibility that a deal on buying or renting might be had.
G
Guest
Guest
I happened to come across this website and thread last week, Larry, and joined the site to find out what you eventually did. Did you get to the Thelon? Charter flights, as people have pointed out, are expensive. I was wondering if you have considered a guided trip to the Thelon. Canoe Arctic, in Fort Smith, advertises a 13-day trip for about $6,500.00 US. This is about the same as if you were chartering for yourself, but you also get food, local expertise and a great deal,of support for camp chores. Just so you know, I am not associated with any guiding company. My wife Kathleen and I have generally pursued northern canoe trips on our own. But as we get older, we have often thought that a guided trip might be worthwhile. But then we see the fees per person, which makes the costs for the two of us more than simply organizing the trip on our own. We did the Thelon in 1993, from Lynx Lake to Baker Lake, and it remains our favorite trip so far. I must point out, though, that not everyone is enamoured with the Barren Grounds, and it's legions of harrasing bugs!
I started thinking about trips on the Churchill River out of Missinippe that I could drive to the put and take out, and pay for a shuttle. Also, inquired about a short 50 mile one way flight in to the Churchill River for me and a solo canoe, $1500. In the end I decided to start saving for the Thelon and paddled a bunch of Rivers in Montana I have never paddled before, which is most (duh... right?) I paddled my new Northstar Phoenix on the Big Hole, Beaverhead, Jefferson, Madison, Yellowstone and Bighorn. I hope to retire in a year or two and am hoping a barren ground trip will be a reward for over 30 years in the classroom. I have absolutely thought about Canoe Arctic for a guided trip. I have spent a lot of time on Alex Hall's website dreaming. There would be certain advantages to that, which you mentioned, for sure. I've have read his book and his knowledge of the barren land would be hard to beat. I still haven't decided which way to go. I hope my son or a friend or two will come along, so as you said, that makes it more affordable to do a self-guided trip. It looked like you listed Billings, as you home?
Guest (post #19),
We may be neighbors. If you like, contact me by Private Message.
Dave
We may be neighbors. If you like, contact me by Private Message.
Dave
