​DIY side-mount for motor on double-ender canoe?

[Will Derness]

Months ago, I warned you that putting a rudder on a canoe might but lead you to the dark side and putting a motor mount on a canoe. Well here we are; you working on a canoe motor mount. And the canoe doesn't even have a rudder.

The allure of the internal combustion engine is just too strong to resist I suppose. Those rudders are the "gateway" drug of the paddling world.

 

[Guest]

I think the 30% estimate is way high. But perhaps there is a more biodegradable oil suitable for 2-stroke pre-mix.

Googling “Uncombusted fuel 2 stroke engine” turns up some interesting info. The 30 percent number may be at the “as much as” high end of some estimations. A couple of cut and pastes from the first articles cited:

Two-stroke engines used by many pleasure boats are a major source of hydrocarbon and other toxic emissions in coastal areas. The high emissions from traditional two-stroke engines are caused by the design of the motor. Twenty to thirty percent of the fuel and the added oil that these two-strokes use are emitted unburned directly into the water. At low speeds, up to 40 percent of the fuel entering a cylinder might escape unburned while at the most efficient operating range eight percent of the fuel is expelled as exhaust. A one-hour ride on a boat with a 10-horsepower traditional two-stroke engine emits the same amount of hydrocarbon pollution as driving a modern automobile 40,000km (25,000 miles).

The two-stroke motor, found on 75 percent of all boats and personal watercraft (jet skis), generates 1.1 billion pounds of hydrocarbon emissions each year. These high emissions are attributed to the design inefficiency of the two-stroke motor, which has remained essentially unchanged since the 1940's.
Consider the following:
Twenty-five percent of the fuel and required oil that conventional two-strokes use most of it unburned is emitted directly into the water and air. According to the EPA, two-stroke engines discharge as much as 30 percent of their fuel and oil unburned directly into the water.
In the US, approximately 75 percent of all motorized boats and personal watercraft (14 million units) are powered by two-stroke engines.
Every year, marine two-stroke motors spill 15 times more oil and fuel into waterways than did the Exxon Valdez.

 

[Guest]

Change of plan. Well, same plan, different canoe.

We will be forgoing the freighter beast and using a Mad River Freedom 17, which I believe is an MRC rebadging of the venerable 17 foot Revelation.

http://www.madrivercanoe.com/sites/default/files/Product catalog 2002.pdf

I took both the freighter and the Freedom/Revelation off the racks today and scrubbed 37 feet of canoe. The freighter nearly broke me, not just the 100+ lb weight, but the length, girth and sheer mass of a 20 foot long by 40 inch wide appendage on my shoulders. Too much boat for me, and maybe too much for the trailer crossbars.

The 17 foot MRC Freedom should be a better choice in a myriad of ways, not just getting it on and off the racks. The gunwale height behind the stern seat is more amenable to a short shaft motor, the more slender hull and less wetted surface should provide increased efficiency under power, and if push came to paddle the Freedom would be easier to propel by hand.

If Joel can’t carry enough beer to keep me happy for a week in a “1200 lb at 6 inch waterline” canoe he’ll have to make two trips.

Once the Gilpatrik book arrives I can start having a look at the motor mount design.

Next design question. For daytripping purposes, after motoring out to some distant camp, it would be advantageous to have an easier paddling solo boat attached as a (releasable) catamaran/ama. The lower gunwale height on the MRC Freedom would work better in that guise as well.

I know that outfitters like Tag-a-Long and Tex rent paired-Grumman cats on the Green River, with field- proven sturdy cross members, which must be KISS-quick assembly for the shuttle drivers to put together at the launch with customers waiting. Now I wish I’d paid attention to how they did that Cat-Grumman set up.

I’ve done crude-cats, lashing two canoes together-apart with rope, tarp poles or materials at hand, but there must be some efficient way to build an efficiently assembled Cat rig.

Well, OK, I have also lashed two canoes gunwale-to-gunwale with no spread, which mostly served to tell me that there is probably some best wave-wash distance apart. It is at a minimum a couple of feet apart.

And another chapter opens. Catamaran builds.

 

[Muskrat]

Go over to the woodenboat forum. There's a thread called the outrigger and proa thread. They will be able to help. Gary Deirking chimes in a lot and he has a book and plans for several outrigger canoes. All his plans and book have specs for iakos (cross beams). Those are geared for a small ama, but those guys have all built cats too, so they should know the specs. Also also, they build on a budget or with limited materials they can get on an island, so they'll have the most cost effective solution. You could even mount a good sail and forget about that motor.

 

[Guest]

Go over to the woodenboat forum. There's a thread called the outrigger and proa thread. They will be able to help
You could even mount a good sail and forget about that motor.

Muskrat, thanks for that heads up to the Wooden Boat forum thread. That thread is 51 pages long, so we should have some things to learn there.

A sail is definitely in the cards. I have a large size Pacific Action Sail, but have found it too much for my solo boats.

The PA Sail is super easy to mount, and equally easy to deploy and take down, so it is worth a shot installing the necessary fairleads and cleats.

http://www.pacificaction.com/

With a decent tailwind it should work to propel the MR Freedom and kayak outrigger and be used instead of the motor, or even with the motor on low power serving as a tiller/rudder with the sail up.

The trickiest part may be DIYing some simple, economical and KISS easy to install iako’s.

I’m thinking maybe thick walled aluminum conduit with an epoxied closet rod fill the interior diameter. That might be stiff enough, yet a bit flexible without the aluminum kinking, and ready-made attachments are probably in the same hardware store isle as the conduit.

I have a near certainty that our first build attempt will end up being the Mark I, and it would be wise to keep it simple and economical

 

[Muskrat]

I wouldn't discount lashings for the attachment points. It's super simple, a lot stronger than you'd think, and allows for some flexibility in the joint. That's what's been used for a thousand years and what most small sailing canoes still use.

There's lots of discussion about spacing the two hulls. Typically the wider the better, but no more than a 1:1 width:length. The more spread the hulls, obviously the more stable, but it also keeps the waves and wakes from piling up in between the hulls. Of course a wide spread also makes it harder to turn.

Your iakos have to be strong enough to hold up the ama unsupported. There's some engineering beam design software for that, you just build it and try it, or you can hang weights off it in your backyard until the beam breaks.

For shorter iakos, 8 ft, I'd guess a wood cored aluminum rod would work nicely.

Check out pictures of hawaiian double hulled canoes. That should give you pretty good ideas on the setup, although some of them go excessive with the iakos.

 

[Odyssey]

Did some paddling yesterday, and at the boat ramp (motor boats allowed on these lakes) saw this fellow. I thought of this site, this thread, and the people who ponder such things as canoes with small motors. The wind was pretty stiff. We couldn't get beyond a point to paddle the rest of the long lake, but I bet this guy had few problems.

 

[Iskweo]

I had my sweaty hands on a 50hp yamaha this past week and I fear I may be in serious trouble with the paddling gods. I reaaaaaally liked the ability to motor around. There is a guy up the road selling a 14 Scott y stern and Honda 2 hp....hmmmmm.

 

[Mihun09]

4 Strokes rule.

 

[Guest]

I am psyched to get into this project. Too psyched; the boat, motor and driver probably will not come together until October.

OK, I’m too psyched to wait for the driver. I have the boat and motor, a spanking new Suzuki 2.5HP 4-stroke. Great reviews and only 29 lbs.

A test fit with the Suzuki hung off a tall sawhorse shows that it fits the 15” deep stern of the Freedom 17 (nee Revelation) perfectly, with the prop below the bottom of the hull. That was joyful revelation #1.

Next design question. For daytripping purposes, after motoring out to some distant camp, it would be advantageous to have an easier paddling solo boat attached as a (releasable) catamaran/ama.

And another chapter opens. Catamaran builds.

I have the boat and motor, and I have the iako’s. Or akas. Or – speak English dammit - crossbars. Cunningly crafted crossbars, manufactured by SpringCreek outfitters for just this purpose. I was going to wait for Joel to “try them on”, but ehhhh, I have a near empty shop, what the heck.

The manufactured crossbars provided joyful revelation #2.

Oh heck yeah; sturdy, KISS simple and adjustable. Three pieces per crossbar, all 4 feet long, which should fit nicely in, say, a snowboard bag for transport. I found a (sorry Joel) hideous floral pattern “women’s” snowboard bag on clearance.

The crossbars are double clamped on each side of the gunwales. Using those clamps allows the crossbars to be spaced as needed anywhere along the sheerline of the motor canoe, positioning the straps and minicel pads atop the kayak bulkheads. Or, if using a canoe as the ama boat, across the thwarts in that float boat.

Much better than having to lash them down atop the motor-canoe thwarts in a fixed location. I like it!





Internal sleeve bar with length adjustable thumb button clips ready to slide into the clamped motor-canoe bar.



Outer bar sleeved in place with cam straps and minicel saddles. That is a 36 inch span between the boats, which looks about right to me, but it could be thumb button adjusted in or out in 6 inch increments. Those are 1 ¼ inch square bar, but they might still accommodate sundry Thule accessories. Hmmmm.. . . . . so many experiments yet to try.





That design, with square aluminum stock, thumb button clips for length-adjustable sleeves, cams, straps and minicel saddles, was exactly what Joel had envisioned (and maybe not fully articulated; although sometimes I just don’t listen).

Thanks to Chuck at Springcreek for having thought through and resolved the construction method and material difficulties. That is a brilliantly functional design. I doubt we couldn have DIY’ed even crude crossbars without wasting time and money on several failed design attempts.

Cool beans, this will work. And the design of those Springcreek crossbars would easily accept a second set of crossbar extension off the unsupported side. Trimaran live-aboard with a fold out screen house/tent platform?

That probably won’t happen this shop session, but it’s a future target.

 

[ezDuzit]

That really does look like the perfect motor.

BTW something got fixed on the site, today, as I just received my first email notice of a new post.

 

[Guest]

That really does look like the perfect motor.

Every review I have read indicates that it is the pick of the litter in small 4-stroke outboards.

I already have motor envy. All of my experiences with small outboards involved running 1950’s two strokes in the 60’s and 70’s. Not fun or reliable, although I did learn the true meaning of “cursing like a sailor”.

The side motor mount design is still under consideration. I like the Gil Gilpatrick design from the Building Outdoor Gear book, and may incorporate some laminated wood elements of that in the side mount.

Since the Freedom 17 will be a dedicated motor canoe it would be easy enough to install a wide, double-hung thwart positioned behind the stern seat, epoxy on a filler piece between the inwlales to bring that “motor thwart” flush with the top of the gunwales. Just drop in a couple of clevis pins and clips to hold the side mount in place and away you go.

That would be extra thwart sturdy and uber simple to install or detach.

 

[Guest]

Canoe as ama

The crossbars are double clamped on each side of the gunwales. Using those clamps allows the crossbars to be spaced as needed anywhere along the sheerline of the motor canoe, positioning the straps and minicel pads so that they rest atop the kayak bulkheads. Or, if using a canoe as the ama boat, across the thwarts in that float boat. .

I’m playing in the shop, might as well see how a canoe ama would work. I just grabbed the open canoe closest to the shop for a crossbar trial; the actual canoe ama would be Joel’s kevlar Rendezvous. I expect it is best if the ama is kept as light weight as possible, with all of the gear in the motor canoe, and I have a huge-never used center airbag that would fill most of the Rendezvous hull,



The answer is that the crossbars work well, and easily. I simply repositioned the crossbars so that they fit atop the ama canoe thwarts. In some ways that was easier than attaching a kayak ama; instead of using the cam and passing the strap under the kayak I just strapped the crossbars directly to the thwarts of the outrigger canoe.

And the design of those Springcreek crossbars would easily accept a second set of crossbar extension off the unsupported side. Trimaran live-aboard with a fold out screen house/tent platform?

Dang, I may need to start thinking about some KISS design for a fold out live-aboard platform. That platform only needs to be big enough for a solo tent or a tiny screen house.

Lesse, the Freedom is 36 inches wide. A standard 4 foot x 8 foot sheet of something could be cut in half and hinged, and would fit nicely on the canoe trailer racks for transport. All of the platform weight except six inches off either side would be balanced and sturdily centered atop the Freedom.

Cheapest trial solution would probably be a sheet of exterior plywood, but I expect there is some better, lighter weight and more durable material, maybe in the plastic world. Ideas?

 

[Muskrat]

Good looking setup. The simple traditional solution for a platform is a tramp. Lash a net across the beams and then set up your tent on top of that. It also makes it easy to move around while underway without impeding water much in the waves. You could also make a bimini for warm weather sleeping aboard. I'll link a picture. Also, in the picture this guy (woodenboat thread page 32) uses slats as a platform. These could be lashed in a way that they could easily be rolled up and then rolled out for camping.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b24/huskyrunnr/myyacht.jpg

 

[Muskrat]

Couple trampoline pictures, one actually made out of trampoline material. You get the idea.

http://assets.makaiproject.com.s3.am...ion2NoLogo.jpg


https://grillabongquixotic.files.wor...5/dsc00863.jpg

Edit to add, so I don't make a third post in a row: the way you're planning on traveling, I wonder if you couldn't pack that kayak full of ice and drop a keg of beer in the hatch

 

[Will Derness]

While not exactly the end result you are looking for you might get some ideas from this:

 

[Guest]

Muskrat and Willie, thanks. Every idea helps.

We may or may not get around to building a Mark I platform. We have some shop time limitations and still have a lot to do. To wit:

Register the boat for a motor. There is only one walk-in DRN site where we can register the canoe in person and leave with a 2-year permit. Doing it through the mail / DNR turn around / mail might be cutting it close.

Once the canoe is motor registered we’ll need a couple of experimental trips under power, probably testing the crossbars with both kayak and canoe ama.

Oh, yeah, we’re not motoring anywhere until we build a motor mount. I’m waiting for Joel on that one.

I like elements of the Gilpatrick design, but since the little Suzuki fits the stern of the Freedom so perfectly height-wise, with the prop blade just below the bottom of the hull (I learned that from the Gilpatrick book), I think the build could be simplified.

This rig has the potential to evolve into the long dreampt of Live Aboard-Motor Canoe With Detachable Day Paddling Kayak Ama (or, in Mil-spec, “LAMCWDDPKA, Mark I”). I expect the first motor mount we build won’t be the last, but I do wish I hadn’t given away that freebie side-mount years ago.

The canoe at least is largely ready to go, with plenty of tie downs (3 vinyl pad D-rings, half twist webbing loops off most of the through-gunwale machine screws, deck bungees, Wenonah adjustable foot brace in the stern, minicel knee bumpers bow and stern, lash straps and etc).

Oh, yeah, the 10 year old cane on both seats is ready to go and needs to be replaced with webbing. Joel, how about a nice plaid pattern? I could start on that before you get here. BWAHAHAHA.

That canoe has seen so little use that it still lacks skid plates, which might be a good end-of-day and walk-away project to provide a bit of oyster bar protection.

Joel has the fuel containers and a guide’s worth of minicel kayak saddles and cam straps. And some other thoughtful accessories we’ll get to later.

I love a good outfitting project, especially something new and novel. This should be fun.

 

[Chip]

Mike, Janice used to run the Wontonah with a motor. It seems your motor project has evolved since you thought about motorizing the freighter, so maybe you don't care, but I could get info on the particulars of the motor and motor mount. It was not a complicated set up. There was some sort of bar that clamped onto the gunwales. A pseudo-transom (piece of 2x) was attached to the bar, and the motor hung on that. Fairly simple. Start it up and drive it around. Trim not much of an issue. I can't find any pictures that show much detail of the mounting. Here's Katie, age 13 and mad about something, driving it on Moosehead.

 

[Guest]

Mike, Janice used to run the Wontonah with a motor.
It was not a complicated set up. There was some sort of bar that clamped onto the gunwales. A pseudo-transom (piece of 2x) was attached to the bar, and the motor hung on that. Fairly simple.

I have looked at various manufactured and DIY side motor mount designs and agree that a basic and functional motor mount looks pretty simple to construct, especially since the little Suzuki doesn’t need to be clamped on below gunwale height.

I do know that we don’t want to go the adjustable “fits most canoes” route. Nothing “universal” ever works as well as something designed for a specific purpose in a specific boat. The Gilpatrick design is elegant, and we may incorporate some of his construction elements in a Mark I motor mount. For example the vertical “wings” trapping the outwales.

Weight is not an issue. I don’t foresee the Freedom and motor ever being portaged further than trailer to water’s edge. Nor the unmotorized canoe being carried far; Joel has UL canoes for that.

I keep pondering a design that uses a wide thwart, permanently installed behind the stern seat, as an attachment point for the motor mount.

It seems your motor project has evolved since you thought about motorizing the freighter .

The evolution of this rig has been percolating in Joel’s odd cerebrum for years, but it wasn’t ‘til now that the parts and pieces for the LAMCWDDPKA started to come together. There are outfitting parts and pieces of this rig that Joel has thought through I haven’t even begun to mention.

BTW – That is a fierce look from Katie, and I’ve experienced it from the other end. I often couldn’t hear what my bowman was saying in a tandem, but I’ve seen such a look, and a canoe, even a 20 footer, is no place to be inescapably trapped, withering away under glare.

 

[Chip]

In Utah, Joel recognized my Tripper by the registration numbers on it. I registered it once and ran an electric motor on it. Below are the pictures of the DIY side mount I rigged for that. Huge overkill for an electric pusher, but it may give you some ideas--perhaps what to avoid. This rig weighs 6 lbs 2 oz.


You can have it if you'd like to look at it more closely.