Buying Canoe Advice for beginner

[dellos]

Hi all, we are looking with my wife to buy new canoe for our rivers trips. We will be canoeing from 2 day trips to 3 weeks trips with our dog for fun on small rivers and maby some lakes.
I found two interesting canoes from my point of view and abbility to buy in my country Nova Craft PROSPECTOR 17 and Old Town Penobscot 174
And now I have problems with one to choos ?? We are looking for fun to trip and also good quality for years. We don

 

[eckilson]

Do you pack light? Two people with gear in my 17' Spirit II didn't leave much room for a dog. I suppose if he is small he could stay between your legs. I'm sure some dog folks will respond.

 

[JoeO]

They are both good canoes if they are your only choice go with the lighter on

 

[dellos]

I think standard 174 is lighter but as I understand Prospector is more stable. I'm thinking about Prospector 17 in TuffStuff Expedition (TSE) as I understand is there way of saying it's a Carbon one. As for dog, it's 34kg labrador retriver so not so small dog at all. I hope well be able to put 2 barrels in middle and find some space in back of them for a dog. There is still some planning for packing and taking dog with us.

 

[memaquay]

Tuff Stuff is not carbon. It's not particularly light either. I have a 16 foot NC prospector, advertised for 50 pounds, might be a few over. You could easily fit four barrels in the 17 footer. Two in the front and your dog in the back will be no problem. I've never paddled a penobscot, but it looks like a fairly large canoe too.

 

[dellos]

Tuff Stuff is it worth to buy this version or go with SP3? As for TS I would have to wait more to get this version of P17 but for me time is not so important as getting best canoe for next comming years.

 

[yellowcanoe]

The Penobscot 174 is SP3 a type of thermoformed plastic.. It is a favorite in rental fleets as it is inexpensive. Improperly stored it will tend to hog and deform. The 174 is an entry level boat that is straighter tracking than the Prospector. It is HEAVY. ( 38 kg) . A Prospector should be rounder bottomed and higher ended. Better river boat it is more demanding of technique on lakes. The Nova Craft is much lighter than the Penobscot.

The 174 does not have floatation. if you dump it and wrap it around a rock it will be toast.. You need to add end bags at least

a seventeen foot canoe packs plenty for three weeks.. Many people do Arctic expeditions with a 17 foot canoe.

 

[memaquay]

SP3 is extremely heavy. In a 17 foot canoe, it will probably oilcan quite a bit as well. It won't paddle as nicely as the tuff stuff canoe. If you do manage to damage the hull, it will be somewhat difficult to repair. I have a 16'6" poly canoe from old town. I call it "The Pig".

On the plus side, if you don't mind carrying a canoe that weighs more than 90 pounds, poly canoes are very hard to damage. They are also the cheapest option out there. However, if you are going to be doing any portaging, you will want to spend the extra money for the tuff stuff.

 

[Guest]

As for dog, it's 34kg labrador retriver so not so small dog at all. I hope well be able to put 2 barrels in middle and find some space in back of them for a dog. There is still some planning for packing and taking dog with us.

If you are committed to fitting two barrels and a 75 lb dog in the middle it might be advisable to try a test pack before purchase, fitting the barrels inside whatever model canoe you are thinking about to see whether the barrels fit sideways or lengthwise between the yoke and thwarts, and how much room remains for the dog.

SP3 is extremely heavy. In a 17 foot canoe, it will probably oilcan quite a bit as well. It won't paddle as nicely as the tuff stuff canoe. If you do manage to damage the hull, it will be somewhat difficult to repair. I have a 16'6" poly canoe from old town. I call it "The Pig".

On the plus side, if you don't mind carrying a canoe that weighs more than 90 pounds, poly canoes are very hard to damage. They are also the cheapest option out there. However, if you are going to be doing any portaging, you will want to spend the extra money for the tuff stuff.

Before buying an SP3 or other poly boat put it on your shoulders and walk around for a bit. A 17 foot SP3 or other poly canoe is going to weight a good 90 lbs. That was a bit much for me even when I was young and strong, and it would never come off the rack today.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Its all up to the dog. Ours would not stay put curled up. She wanted to stand and hang her head over the gunwales. We needed 18.5 feet for trips on the Allagash and long trips of over a week.

 

[Dagger]

Dellos, lighter and stiffer canoes generally perform better, last longer and are easier to handle, on and off the water, than comparably sized thermoformed plastic canoes. I have a Spirit II in Kevlar, and a 65-pound dog. I sure like the roughly 50 pound Spirit II over my previous 75-pound, 16' Royalex Legend. I am also more of a comfort camper and not an expedition specialist/minimalist. Just because they can pack freeze-dried food for three weeks doesn't mean I can...or like to .
My packing list for two + the dog will fit into my 17' Spirit, BUT if I had to do it all over again, I'd go with an 18' canoe, and a wider one at that. Your water dog will want some space to move, and he will change your weight distribution, every time he does! Wider canoe > stability (typically).

Some boats I'd consider, Northstar Northwind 18 for instance. 18' 9" long and 36" wide and under 50 pounds. Wenonah Champlain at 18' long, 37" wide and a little over 60 pounds, even in their heaviest layup. Or the Nova Craft 18' Prospector.

 

[yellowcanoe]

I do think Northstar exports to Europe. Maybe Bear Paulsen can chime in.. The problem is we can suggest till the cows come home but I for one don't know what can be or is shipped to Europe

 

[pblanc]

Do not confuse the Old Town Penobscot 174 with the Old Town Penobscot 17. The Penobscot 17 was Royalex, much lighter than the 174, faster, and a bit less stable. Since Royalex is no longer made, the Penobscot 17 is only available used if you are lucky enough to find one. It was just about the lightest 17' Royalex tandem available.

As has been said, the Penobscot 174 is three-layer, roto-molded polyethylene. I have an old one that I saved from the grave. It is more stable (very stable) than the Penobscot 17 but not as fast. It will hold a ton. And it is ungodly heavy. I would not consider this canoe for any type of use in which it has to be carried any distance, and many individuals will have difficulty lifting it to car top or carry even relatively short distances.

Here is a photo of the back of a Penobscot 174. The two smaller barrels are 60 liter size. The larger one sitting cross ways is an 80 liter barrel. My wife and other dog are in the front of the boat:

 

[dellos]

Yup this is problem but I hope I choosed good stable canoe, I would pick Nova Craft Prospector 17 in TuffStuff Expedition (TSE) and see where it will go from there. Just had to chance to see the SP3 version and we feeted in and it would be a good canoe for shorter trips with less bagadge. As from there we'll see where it will lead us... to 18? Who knows. Canoe Market in Poland is not so big and also will look into germany market if there will be some chance to find other brands...

 

[yknpdlr]

Get the lightest canoe you can afford. I don't know what kind of water you paddle in or if there are many portages, which can make a difference in choosing canoe by weight. I have a friend in Belgium who paddles with me in the U.S. and the Yukon. He has the same problem in finding canoes he likes for tripping and for racing. I had a Labrador dog who liked to look at ducks on one side, then seconds later, a beaver on the other side, then back to the ducks. Stability is something you learn to control with practice.

 

[gumpus]

Hello dellos. Please note that everyone is telling you that weight is important...it is important that you can lift and load your boat to make sure you use it...and your wife gets a vote about the weight unless you plan to handle the boat all by yourself.

If you have a dealer nearby I suggest you just go and lift some boats to get a better feel for the weight that you can easily handle. I used to travel to Wroclaw for work and it seemed like many men look like weight lifters that could compete in World's Strongest Man competition!

The Nova Craft Prospector in TuffStuff is a fine choice...as long as you can easily manage the 60 pound weight. It is worth getting TuffStuff since it is very strong yet much lighter than plastic...it will also paddle better than plastic.

Based on the reviews in the link below people seem quite happy with their Nova Craft Prospector 17's.

https://paddling.com/reviews/product/nova-craft-canoe-prospector-17-canoe/

 

[yellowcanoe]

The Prospector is a very maneuverable canoe.. So much so that at the beginning you may zig and zag across lakes.. Do not despair. With time on the water you will get better with the J stroke and your partnership with the bow paddler. Don't get discouraged and dont try to over correct.. Doing something wrong faster and harder is not usually productive.
Tandems need never be "divorce boats"

Yes I had a Golden who loved to stare down moose. We tended to paddle hard to get away before she decided to leave the boat and chase.

 

[yknpdlr]

What North Americans call Moose, I believe that in Europe are called Elk.

 

[memaquay]

Big canoes are nice. The pic shows my Polish friend helping me haul a fully loaded 20 foot canoe over a beaver dang. We were moose hunting. Mr. Batog is strong like bull, good Polish canoe paddler.

 

[yknpdlr]

For many years I have mainly paddled several different voyageur canoes, from 28-34 feet in length with a crew of 6 or 7 paddlers. More recently I have been paddling C4 canoes, with a crew of 4. Of course I also paddle C2 and solo.

Here is a photo of my team loaded for a 1000 mile 6-day race on the Yukon River.