If you frequent the wrong North Maine Woods road you may need this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TNkmH3R9u70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TNkmH3R9u70
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Happy International Museum Day!🏛️ 🖼️🏺
Bushcraft vehicle extrication.
- Thread starter yellowcanoe
- Start date
The Mors Kochanski flip-flop winch. Ingenious and actually works very well. I was fortunate enough to take a 21 day survival course designed by Mr. Kochanski back in the 80s. I never got to meet him, but the course was life-changing.
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Pretty neat video. I can think of a lot of uses for that - but honestly, the vehicle in the video wasn't really stuck. I'd call that just slipping - as opposed to up-to-the-axles stuck. I'd be a little more cautious about that method for a truly stuck rig. I've seen cables and straps under tension that slipped anchor or snapped and whipped back with enough force to break windows (or bones) and bend steel. I'm confident that this flip-flop winch can generate enough tension to make that happen under enough resistance. When I was involved in such operations (without going into detail, it was a common event in a previous professional life) we made a point of throwing a heavy blanket or several over the cable, rope, or strap to dampen the recoil if it happened to break loose. And even then, we made sure everyone was standing clear.
The ironic thing about the video is that vehicle probably could have been freed without all that drama, by simply feathering the parking brake and easing the throttle and clutch - or just feathering the foot brake and easing the throttle with an auto tranny and AWD. Often, giving the spinning wheel a little resistance with the brake gets the other wheel turning enough to move out of a simple off-camber one-wheel spin. Another trick we use in the back country is a traction mat stuffed under the slipping wheel. I've seen products on the market for this, but it can be as simple as on old rubber door mat. One can often improvise with tree limbs and/or coarse gravel, among other things. The whole trick is to impede the free-wheeling on one side so both wheels are turning under power. Another simple method that most vehicles will be equipped for (if the tool hasn't been pilfered) is to jack the non-spinning side up enough to transfer weight to the spinning side, then put enough rocks, sticks, or whatever under the tire to hold it up there with the jack removed - and then just drive off.
I can see that Mors-jack trick being a useful thing to know when solo tripping. Could really add some power to a solo-rigged z-drag.
The ironic thing about the video is that vehicle probably could have been freed without all that drama, by simply feathering the parking brake and easing the throttle and clutch - or just feathering the foot brake and easing the throttle with an auto tranny and AWD. Often, giving the spinning wheel a little resistance with the brake gets the other wheel turning enough to move out of a simple off-camber one-wheel spin. Another trick we use in the back country is a traction mat stuffed under the slipping wheel. I've seen products on the market for this, but it can be as simple as on old rubber door mat. One can often improvise with tree limbs and/or coarse gravel, among other things. The whole trick is to impede the free-wheeling on one side so both wheels are turning under power. Another simple method that most vehicles will be equipped for (if the tool hasn't been pilfered) is to jack the non-spinning side up enough to transfer weight to the spinning side, then put enough rocks, sticks, or whatever under the tire to hold it up there with the jack removed - and then just drive off.
I can see that Mors-jack trick being a useful thing to know when solo tripping. Could really add some power to a solo-rigged z-drag.
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Yes, lots of videos and explanation of that technique on the internet. A number make the point that you probably shouldn't use a dynamic climbing rope. The stretch wastes energy and turns the whole thing into a giant slingshot. I keep thinking I should buy a couple of hundred feet of quarter inch Amsteel to keep in the trunk. No stretch and super light and compact.
Most times I have been stuck the ground (or snow) was so soft that I would have made me very wary of trying to use the standard jack to lift the vehicle. I guess that is when you start carrying a proper Hi-Lift jack though I have wondered whether some sort of inflatable jack could work as it would have a large footprint so be be less inclined to bury itself.
Most times I have been stuck the ground (or snow) was so soft that I would have made me very wary of trying to use the standard jack to lift the vehicle. I guess that is when you start carrying a proper Hi-Lift jack though I have wondered whether some sort of inflatable jack could work as it would have a large footprint so be be less inclined to bury itself.
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yes, an air bag would be a good idea. We used to have them for lifting aircraft should the gear collapse. Maybe something you could use the car exhaust to inflate?
Breaking strength of rope .....4xdia squared
Breaking strength of chain or wire rope....40xdia squared.
wheel depth = 1x veh weight
fender depth = 2x veh weight
hull depth = 3x veh weight
tackle loss is 10% per pulley
The best bet is some wire rope with a pulley to give you a 2:1, or 3:1 advantage.
But what would I know. I'm just a girl.
Christy
Breaking strength of rope .....4xdia squared
Breaking strength of chain or wire rope....40xdia squared.
wheel depth = 1x veh weight
fender depth = 2x veh weight
hull depth = 3x veh weight
tackle loss is 10% per pulley
The best bet is some wire rope with a pulley to give you a 2:1, or 3:1 advantage.
But what would I know. I'm just a girl.
Christy
G
Guest
Guest
As well as draping something over the cable I always put the hood up on my old truck with a winch on the front. I figured I could drive it to a junkyard and find another hood as long as the windshield was intact.
Per a suggestion from Oldie Moldy here on Canoe Tripping I made a jack stand base from a thick piece of laminated oak and keep it in the truck. It doesn’t take up much room.
We dumped my old truck into the ditch on some soggy bentonite in the Wyoming backcountry years ago. We edged it back into the road a couple inches at a time by jacking it as up as high as we could and pushing it sideways off the jack. A jack stand base would have been dang handy.
The bags I have seen have a hose that fits over the tailpipe. Quite effective and easier to locate under the vehicle than a conventional jack but not as cheap as wooden jack stand.
You can't just throw numbers down and walk away! It's like placing a new box of cookies on the kitchen table and then not opening them
Amsteel is way stronger than most other ropes.The 6mm is rated to over 3500kg plus it is way nicer to use than wire. It's used on a lot of atv winches nowadays.
G
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I’m surprised that the exhaust generates enough force to lift a vehicle, and that modern computer controlled engines don’t shut down when the exhaust becomes back pressured.
They have no way of knowing if the exhaust is restricted and not really any reason to shut down because plugged exhaust isn't likely to cause further damage. Better to let you limp home at 30mph than be stuck along the side of the road.
Alan
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One thing about stretchy rope, I use work in a sling shop, and we use to make all kind of things, choker cable for logging, chain sling for anchoring heavy equipment on flat bed, synthetic(nylon, polyester..) for all kind of use and we also made huge rope sling for cement truck, and for smaller and lighter vehicle to...
We use large diameter rope, braided inside and outside, we would make eye at each end, anyway, the way they were using these sling, was if a cement truck got stuck(they are heavy right) they would bring an other one and hook up the two truck with one of these rope and the non stuck truck would start to pull untill the rope was well stretch, and then the magic started... The rope would pull the stuck truck out slowly... I've seen it, I've used it. It work.
We use large diameter rope, braided inside and outside, we would make eye at each end, anyway, the way they were using these sling, was if a cement truck got stuck(they are heavy right) they would bring an other one and hook up the two truck with one of these rope and the non stuck truck would start to pull untill the rope was well stretch, and then the magic started... The rope would pull the stuck truck out slowly... I've seen it, I've used it. It work.
G
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If you have a long stout rope and at least 2 people, you can loop one end around a tree and have others pull sideways on the center of the rope, then let off and someone takes up the slack at the tree and so on. if you get the rhythm going it can work well. You have a surprising amount of leverage at the center of a long rope.
Turtle
Turtle
Working with stone masons for quite a few years an old salt showed me a trick , when stuck in mud throw some hydrated lime in the rut ,works like a charm just wash off your tires asap.
Thanks forest. You made me curious, I found this link.
http://lime.org/documents/publications/free_downloads/fact-mud.pdf
http://lime.org/documents/publications/free_downloads/fact-mud.pdf
I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I watch a show called Dirty Rotten Survival. In an episode, they tried using this flip flop winch method to get and old Jeep out of the mud. The strapping the used broke first. The successful strategy involved using a land anchor and the rotating spinning tire to winch the car out. Pretty neat trick.
Very very jealous. This guy is the grand daddy of Bushcraft and nobody else comes close to his knowledge and experience.
The irony is that when I took the course I had no idea of the significance of the author's name on the course material. It wasn't until at least a decade later that I came to understand exactly who Mors is and what he represents to the outdoor community. I bought a copy of his book Northern Bushcraft and have read it at least a half dozen times.
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