"Borrowing" photos on the internet

[oldie moldy]

Well, it's interesting, all the sides presented here. If I ever come up with pictures worth a whoop and somebody ran off with them, my reaction would vary depending. When I read the article and if I liked the way the guy sounds and thought that except for playing fast and loose a little bit, he probably was an ok guy, then probably I'd just drop him a note saying "It'd been polite to have asked".
But if He seemed a real jerk, then I'd have blood in my eye and would be looking for ways to protect my photos. And if I could figure out how to do that watermark business, you would probably would see them on my photos in the future.

But if say, just suppose, when this site was up for grabs and needing someone to keep it up and run it day to day and somehow I wound up with it, I would have a whole different perspective. Suppose you had spent the last (what's it been; one or two years?) fending off various scallywags, hackers, people trying to subvert the site for their own angle, every darn day, day after day. I know that I'd be ready to lump the watermark guy in with all the other no-good-nicks. You might be too.
And in those shoes, to that person it's not B.S.

I've been thinking about this whole administrator thing, aborted fund raising and Robin's load. He's not a computer mechanic so he has to find someone who is and is reliable, he's got to raise funds to pay for the guy.
He's not some slick PR guy so his effort's are not all that smooth. He's not a graphic design artist; but when he tried to come up with a sticker to encourage money raising for the site, we, in various ways shot the crap out of it.
Now Robin's not any of those things; He is a truly nice guy who likes wood canvas canoes and stepped into the breach when we needed him.
I've always had a hard place in my heart for Harlan and the way he dropped Solo Tripping, but now I wonder if he didn't just get fed up with it all.
Wonder what Robin's limit is?

Let's be kinder, Rob

 

[Odyssey]

There are some old school photos of me and my grade 4 classmates, buried under a pile of forgotten linens in a cedar chest somewhere around this house. It's been years since we looked at them. Our kids laugh at the funny looking children in cotton dresses, dusty denims and scrunched up shirts. That's Rusty in the top row, smart white shirt and slicked hair. No-one was sure if his mom made him look clean and neat that day, or if he was just being funny. None of us were brave enough to ask "big red", but the teacher loved him for his out of character attire. That's my grade 4 "girlfriend" in the second row. Who'd a thought we'd get married so many years later. Not me. She was the only girl not to tease me for being the slowest boy running when the school bell rang. No water marks.
Water marks never showed up on our own kids' school photos till years later. When they did finally appear, I thought "What the? Nobody would take a school photo without paying for it, would they?" Immediately I realized the obvious answer, and the answer was Yes. It was just a little difficult to choose a photo purchase, trying to look past the water mark. Our eldest daughter had a pro photographer friend take some snaps of their 5 lb pride and joy this spring. Gorgeous photos. I loved them all. I'm pretty sure there were water marks, but I don't remember. My attention was captured by the adorable subject.
Photos don't need to be of family to be personal. Don't we in some small way, make a personal connection with whatever we are snapping with our cameras? Am I over-thinking this? Or perhaps I'm just being selfish, calling an image "mine". I'm trying to sit on the fence of decision, but I keep falling off. The idea of having a private photo in a public place "borrowed", "taken" or "stolen" really bothers me. Just a respectful indication of whose pic it is seems simple enough.
Back in grade 4 we used to write our names on our ball gloves, in big ugly ink across the thumb. No-one would dream of stealing another's glove. It was to make picking out your own glove easier when we were choosing teams, like our hockey sticks thrown in a pile at centre ice, to be tossed aside into 2 teams. We also didn't think twice about loaning stuff to each other, or to a new kid come to play. A hand me down hockey stick, a worn out ball glove, or a personally perfect photo; they're always our own, even if they do get loaned, lost or forgotten.
None of these things of mine are worth borrowing, much less taking. My old Sherwood needs re-taping, but it's the only one I've got. The old glove won't win you the game, but it's full of memories for me. The photos, both old and new, some kinda good, many amusingly bad, might not be worth borrowing either. That's okay. Just like my other stuff, they're personal, with memories and a few stories to tell. Once in a while I pull some out to share. We reminisce and trade stories. Our kids laugh at some of the old ones.

 

[yellowcanoe]

My remark to Robin was unduly snarky but the edit function doesn't work on the phone. Anyone who knows me knows I have nothing to push. I don't know how to watermark without messing up the whole picture. Maybe I should just post some of the 98 percent of pix I take that are duds? God knowsI have an ample supply

 

[Odyssey]

Our next door neighbour stopped us on our way in from the car last night. Would we mind cutting her lawn while she's away? She's going on a 6 week trip to the UK. A good deal of it will be spent hiking some of the many scenic long distance footpaths. Could she pay me for cutting her grass? Yes. Pay me by sharing your experiences walking the Cornwall coast, and exploring Hadrian's wall in the north. Photos would be splendid too. She worried whether they would be good enough to show us, but admitted there were hundreds taken over the last 6 years of UK walking trips. Only share what you choose to, and don't worry about any critique from us, there won't be any. If you choose to share hundreds, along with memories, well, that sounds like an evening well spent at our place. We'll supply a couple bottles of wine, snacks, and two eager neighbours ready for some armchair travel. Deal done, she wandered home to finish her packing.
I love trip reports and travel blogs. Just like travel plans and experiences, photos don't always turn out perfect, but they always turn out memorable.

 

[red langford]

If you make a living selling photos you will already implemented processes to avoid somebody mowing your lawn so to speak, other than that we are all amateurs and if a photo any of us amateurs took ended up somewhere where there was a whole pile of money being made from it we should be amazed we managed to get lucky and take such a great picture. I don't think semi-pro photographers are living the celebrity lifestyle of Ferraris and private jets either so we should not be too concerned about somebody taking liberties with a point and shoot photos. How can somebody copyright a scene in nature anyways?

However...saying all that nobody has permission to use a photograph of me anywhere. Past experiences and what I'm sure is a broken thought process has led me to this. I won't even let my wife post photos of me on FecesBook. I want to control who can or cannot see what I look like.

 

[DuctTape]

I left a polite little comment in his comment section a couple of days ago, no response yet. I'll leave it at that, not the arguing kind, and can't get to wound up about a few pics.

Looks like he deleted your comment.

 

[red langford]

I am aware of the work that goes into making consistently good photos (not the techniques per se but the amount of work and knowledge) but as is apt to happen, the sun even shines on a dogs arse somedays. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I am also aware that for some on here it is more than point and shoot, considerably more, but to go from a avid hobby photographer to a bona fide professional is a bit of jump

 

[Odyssey]

I have an old fashioned attitude towards sharing stuff. I'm pretty easy going, and would give you the shirt off my back. Giving you the shirt off my back is not the same thing as you taking it without my knowing, or my agreeing to give it to you. In this modern age of internet public spaces, I suppose "finders keepers" has replaced the civility of saying please and thank you, which is pretty much the same thing as "taking" rather than "been given". Like I said earlier, using without permission could be forgiven, if the person taking could have the good manners of showing to whom the photo really belongs, or a call or Email to ask "may I?"Memaquay is a nice guy and pretty easy going, we all know that, but somehow I can't help but feel like he's been ripped off, and taken advantage of. That really bothers me. This "finders keepers" attitude doesn't sit well with me outside of the internet, and certainly not inside it either. It may be legal, but in my old fashioned world it's not ethical. This may not be a big deal, but that's for our friend mem to decide. This lazy blogger fellow probably thought he'd "finders keepers" a few of mem's pics to fill out his own blog. Maybe he didn't mean any harm. If so, he can prove it by contacting mem to graciously explain himself. If not, then his intentions seem plain enough to me.
I haven't had my morning coffee yet, so maybe that's why I'm so grumpy this morning. If I'm out of step with any or all of you, don't worry. I can agree to disagree. No problem. I need an old fashioned coffee, with some old fashioned breakfast, and then I'll be as right as rain. Sorry for the rant.

 

[oldie moldy]

Well Brad (or should I call you Od?) I don't see your post as a rant at all. To my eyes it's an affirmation of traditional good manners. It seems that today the modern folks can't wait to throw out "how it was done in the past". And replace it with something new, which under examination seems to have no boundary's at all.
When I ponder human history and prehistory, again and again I'm struck how murderous we are. As I see it; good manners are the lubricant that allows us to come together in groups and interact without resulting carnage. (sometimes)
For better and often worse, man is a social animal and for us to disregard manners has the same result as lack of oil in your car engine.

Please, thank you and may I ...........now that's the stuff!

Best Wishes, Rob

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

This thread is certainly wandering and hard for me to follow. It also seems to confuse selling photos with protecting them against copying.

The topic is what to do about "borrowed" internet photos. That has two aspects: preventing it from happening, and what to do about it after it happens.

The following site has some good technical prevention tips in addition to watermarks, as well as some practical and legal alternatives after the fact.

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/protect-online-photos.htm

 

[Guest]

This thread is certainly wandering and hard for me to follow. It also seems to confuse selling photos with protecting them against copying.

The topic is what to do about "borrowed" internet photos. That has two aspects: preventing it from happening, and what to do about it after it happens.

The following site has some good technical prevention tips in addition to watermarks, as well as some practical and legal alternatives after the fact.

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/protect-online-photos.htm

The topic, as in other threads, is what the posters deem it to be. So far I haven't noticed anything that's contrary to the overall theme of the OP.

 

[Sturgeon]

By the way, the site that hosts my trip photos displays a "buy" button under each one. I can't turn it off, and the terms of the site mean I don't profit from it (unless I switch to a really expensive membership for pro photographers). Hope no one is offended by that. I don't watermark my photos and they are freely available to copy (though most are crappy). That said, I would hope someone credits me if they use one. Excuse that interruption. Please carry on with the discussion in progress...

 

[oldie moldy]

I cheerfully agree with you Glenn, the subject (what ever it was ) is staggering around like a drunk camel. I find more and more, I wander in my thoughts, sometimes more wander than thoughts.
But isn't it pleasant to relax and have a gentle conversation, ambling along, where ever our musing take us? I doubt very much that any of us is expecting to solve anything but it is nice to be able to kick in our two bits worth.

Best Wishes, Rob

 

[Rippy]

I am aware of the work that goes into making consistently good photos (not the techniques per se but the amount of work and knowledge) but as is apt to happen, the sun even shines on a dogs arse somedays. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I am also aware that for some on here it is more than point and shoot, considerably more, but to go from a avid hobby photographer to a bona fide professional is a bit of jump

I attended a photography lecture at Canoecopia a couple years ago. It was put on by a professional photographer. He said the difference between a pro photographer and a large pizza was that a large pizza could feed a family of four. I think he was trying to tell us something. (keep your day job folks)
Dave

 

[red langford]

Exactly Rippy. Borrowing for a blog, or to show somebody a item that you don't have a picture of such as a tent without giving credit, while bad manners as some have pointed out, is not a realistic loss of any sort renumeration. So in this instance, memequay is not out actual or even potential revenue, somebody is just using his photos for a blog on the Steel River. If one of my pictures showed up as a post card I would have something to say, but really when you put stuff on the internet it becomes public. I think it would be akin to leaving your photographs (and I mean the physical ones not the digital ones) at a bus stop. Whoever finds them may look at them and maybe they will keep some of them but chances of them turning your photos into some sort of revenue creating venture is slim at best, no matter how good they are.

I only know of one person on this site who actually sells his/her photographs and I know he has a full time job outside of the glamour of photography. And I would hazard a guess that his sale of photos merely covers a portion of his expenses.