16' Mad River Freedom

[Robin]

Thanks for the replies, Dan your information is very helpful. I wasn't sure about the deck, but your pictures will help me figure out what I need. And with what the others suggested I think I will give the router a try. I have some scrap material I will practice on first,. I have 8 rails 16' long all the same dimensions, so I think if I clamped them together on a long level surface (4 picnic table benches) I could have a nice level surface for the router to ride on.

Now that I know what side (the 3/4") of the rails rides against the canoe I will apply a few coats of varnish to those sides Thanks Phil for reminding me. Today is warm and dry, so I will get one coat on and another tomorrow.

Mike, send me a pm of what you are looking for, I will keep my eye open around here, or just send me a pm when you see something in either Maine or CT, my daughter lives in Camden area of Maine (craigslist/Uncle Henry adds) and I'm there 4-5 times a year and CT/Mass would be easy (unless your looking for the same things I'm always looking for...haha)

 

[paddlindan]

No Title

Good luck with the routing. I've done some and have not been too successful without practice, a guide, and much patience.

Philtum above provides some dimensions that I don't see. He mentions "the in- and outwales were 3/4" wide and about 7/8" high" on an Eclipse and an Indy.

I don't have an Eclipse, but do have a Kevlar Indy. My measurements indicate 7/8" wide (horizontal dimension with boat floating on water) and 3/4" tall. Same with a Kevlar Explorer. On composite boats, the inside vertical face of the outwale is rabbetted so that the wood covers the top edge of the hull. Therefore, the outwale only protrudes 3/4" horizontally from the hull. But I'm willing bet a shot of bourbon the stock is 7/8" x 3/4".

MRC also did the decks differently on their composite boats as the pic below shows.

I do whole-heartedly agree with Philtrum's point about several coats of whatever you are going to use to seal the wood on the faces that touch the hull. That way, you know they are protected.

Mike M: I agree with your comments about Vermont-built. All of my proud bunny boats were born up there. I do believe the tandem Freedom began life badged that way, as a more river tripping oriented version of the Explorer. That's why I sold my Duck Hunter (aka Explorer) and bought the Freedom. I have no idea why they changed the Guide badge to the Freedom Solo. Maybe from Dr. Seuss: Thing 1 and Thing 2? I think, but am not sure, that the Revelation hull was renamed the Freedom 17. I guess it's all academic now, most are gone with the demise of royalex.

dan

 

[paddlindan]

I just noticed a 16" MRC Freedom with vinyl rails and flotation on ebay, in Rochester NY. They are asking $950. Robin, if you follow that sale, and see if it actually sells, that should give you some idea of what yours may be worth not too far from you.

I paid $968 w-o tax for my wood railed one in 5/1996 (new, from dealer).

 

[memaquay]

I just picked up a decent router table, a small one, with the router and a bunch of bits, for 40 bucks. Second hand of course. Before that, I had a really budget plastic router table with a wow in the middle. With my wood butchery skills, I wouldn't try to free hand a gunwale. It would give a new meaning to the word "wiggle".

 

[Philtrum]

Good luck with the routing. I've done some and have not been too successful without practice, a guide, and much patience.

Philtum above provides some dimensions that I don't see. He mentions "the in- and outwales were 3/4" wide and about 7/8" high" on an Eclipse and an Indy.

I don't have an Eclipse, but do have a Kevlar Indy. My measurements indicate 7/8" wide (horizontal dimension with boat floating on water) and 3/4" tall. Same with a Kevlar Explorer. On composite boats, the inside vertical face of the outwale is rabbetted so that the wood covers the top edge of the hull. Therefore, the outwale only protrudes 3/4" horizontally from the hull.

[...]
dan

The outwale protrusion is the dimension I was remembering. Due to the rabetting, it probably began life 7/8" wide.

 

[latremorej]

Robin, an idea for making it easy to use the router...

You only need one picnic table, since you are using 1x stock, at 3/4" actually width, clamp a scrap piece of pine board, left over ash, whatever you have (1x3 or 4" scrap) to your table and , one at a time clamp the gunnels material down along side it.... this will support your hand router and keep everything square. Just slide the piece down as you go along, and router it in 4 foot sections. As Alan said, the bearing will keep everything uniform. No need to go hauling around a bunch of picnic tables!

If need be I can take some photos when I get home from work this morning

Jason

Great looking canoe BTW

 

[Robin]

I got the new ash rails in today, used a router to knock down the corners, a little touch up with 80 grit on the belt sander, tomorrow I'll use the palm sander to get them nice.
Be it wood canvas or Royalex, new rails really make an old canoe look better.

 

[Philtrum]

"Like."

 

[latremorej]

Wow, what a difference!

 

[Robin]

I applied Watco to the rails and installed the varnished seats and thwarts. Next I need to build some decks. I compounded the sides and buffed them, I sprayed the bottom with Krylon,

I moved the stern seat back about 3" and kept the bow seat in the same location for solo use, I raised both seats about 2" I tucked both thwarts in a bit about 32" at the widest point.

So although it was a quick referbish of a well used canoe I think it will make someone a good all around moving water canoe.

 

[Dennis]

What a difference, nice work Robin.

 

[paddlindan]

Very nicely done!

Your purchase price of "too good to pass up" plus your effort turned that hull into what looks to be a very good river canoe. It will be interesting to see how much you get for it upon resale, especially since it seems many sellers are aware that royalex is no longer being made and existing boats in good condition are therefore more valuable.

I didn't notice the black seat trusses before. It appears from your pictures that they were the original ones, and you cut them down to raise the seats. What material are those trusses? My 96 Freedom still had the simpler dowels to suspend the seats, MRC must have switched to those trusses a little later.

As an academic question, it would be interesting to see the other dimensions of your Freedom, and paddle it, compared to a stock one. You mention you tucked the thwarts in to be about 32" wide at the widest point. My carry yoke is 95 1/4" from the stern (tape hook over the rear deck, measured to where the yoke front surface touches the back of your neck. At that point, the hull is 37" wide measured to the outside of the outwales. What measurement is your 32"? I wonder if that changes anything else in the boat (rocker, or flare?)

Regardless, thanks for sharing the story, it was interesting to follow.

dan

 

[Philtrum]

Shortening thwarts induces roundness, reduces flare and rocker, and makes the boat less stable.

 

[Robin]

Thanks for the "attaboy's"

Dan,
Sorry, the canoe is 34" wide at the carry thwart,(not 32" as I wrote in post 30") that's to the outside of the royalex hull's sides, not the gunnels. The only reason I trimmed the thwarts was that the existing bolt holes where not compatible with the new ash trim. I think I only trimmed about 1/2 inch on both sides of both thwarts.

The carry thwart is now 95 3/4" to where it meets the back of the neck from the bow.

The seat trusses are made of a hard plastic. I cut them down with a ban saw and leveled them out with a belt sander. I prefer dowels but this seemed like it would work and the seats are very secure. I thought the original seats where too low for the paddlers I'm going to try and sell the canoe to. Same with moving the stern seat back, our local rivers are not all that big so I thought the more distance between paddlers will assist with flatwater paddling yet keeping it a river canoe. (?)

I left the bow seat level as it seems like it's in a good position for a solo paddler.

The Krylon paint is all about first impressions, not something I would bother with on a personal royalex canoe. I just sprayed the bottom of the hull and left the sides original finish, with a quick compound and buffing.

Your description of the decks was very helpful. I'm not sure what I will end up with as far as material, but I have some ideas. Thanks for the help.

 

[Robin]

Well, I glued up some 1"x1/2" ash and made my own decks. added a brace underneath,

Then I drilled and screwed them down and added a carry thwart at each end,

Finished!

 

[dave0]

A very nice job Robin! Looks great. Now, please come up here and finish off my Kev Malecite! ;-) I seem to have a motivation problem lately!

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Nice save, Robin!