Wasioto Whitehall Build

This here is where you wish you had 5-6ppl reading along and commenting.

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Interesting project for sure & I'm reading along but I'm still mostly trying to figure out what you're doing as it's a real departure from anything that I've done. One suggestion that I will offer at this point: Rather than towels, boiling water & heat guns, can you set up a 15-16 foot section of pvc pipe & a wallpaper steamer?

I've found that even submerging wood in cold water and soaking for a couple of days is often enough to make it pliable but I've never tried bending them after they've been laminated. I'm interested to see how you make out.

Gamma1214 said:

Interesting project for sure & I'm reading along but I'm still mostly trying to figure out what you're doing as it's a real departure from anything that I've done.

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Thank you! For all four of those.

Gamma1214 said:

One suggestion that I will offer at this point: Rather than towels, boiling water & heat guns, can you set up a 15-16 foot section of pvc pipe & a wallpaper steamer?

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That might be the best way. I'll have a clearer view of the part and can watch it doesn't twist as I add the additional bend. I'll still probably have to build the form (to this step I added using that arced form the gunnels were resting on in early picture, with 4ft boards mounted perpendicularly to form a tray, not so much to force the gunnels into shape but as guide to see proper arc as I alter what they're at), but what I'll GET to do is build a steamer. Been wantn a nice wuna nem. Something with a good wide water vessel, for lots of steam generating surface area.

Gamma1214 said:

I've found that even submerging wood in cold water and soaking for a couple of days is often enough to make it pliable but I've never tried bending them after they've been laminated.

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Or that. I'll have to look at what temp rating T-88 can handle, I wouldn't want them to delam in the pipe or towels. I didn't pre-soak before lamination because I didn't want the wood waterlogged prior to epoxy. But epoxy holds up to water alone. It might be best to do the simple 'soak for 3-5 days, remove, bend, and allow to rest in position for 5-7 days' technique.

Gamma1214 said:

I'm interested to see how you make out.

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Thank you friend. I'm interested to see if I DO.

I didn't want the wood waterlogged prior to epoxy.

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I guess that might depend on how much patience you have. When fresh-cut, wood is often 50% or more water and most will air dry to 8-10% in a year or two. Even with steaming, there's simply no way that you're going to get back to green wood moisture levels.

About the only thing that I've bent are seat parts and I soak strips (3/16 x 1 inch) in water for 3-5 days and then put them in the bending jigs. They then dry in the jigs for 5-7 days (usually inside a heated space in winter so the relative humidity of the surrounding air is pretty low) and then I laminate with epoxy. So far, I've seen little evidence of dampness in the center of the packs (7 strips) when removed from the jigs so I assume that the water dries out of the wood about as quickly as it soaked in (real technical, huh?)

With steam, you might get more water in more quickly but I'd think that it'll still dry out relatively soon. Just don't be in a hurry (?)

Also, I've never steamed wood but my understanding is that it works best if it's soaked for a few days before steaming.

Gamma1214 said:

can you set up a 15-16 foot section of pvc pipe & a wallpaper steamer?

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I've never tried it but I've seen people use steam bags. Basically wrap the wood in a plastic "bag" and then insert the steam hose. Benefits are less setup/materials and you can manipulate the wood while it's in the bag being steamed.

I believe DougD used this method when steaming gunwales to fit his Rob Roy, which bent too much to install dry. He was able to gain pliancy and then clamped the bag and all to the boat to get the correct shape. Turned off the steam and let them cool and dry for a day or two before unclamping and removing the plastic. They held much of their shape and could then be installed normally.


Alan

Yeah, Gamma, good research on the moisture levels coming and going in the wood. With steaming though, it’s not water inside the wood, its the heat softening the Lignin glue of the tree, and letting the fibers of wood slide alongside one another. But yeah I’ve heard soaking them pre-steam helps too, and I’ve done it every other time. I like the idea of towels wrapped on assembled stringers with boiling water poured on them. There’s not as much heat applied on that method, but that might make me use it.

I got the gunnels in water using 20ft of irrigation pipe. Before hand I set seven steel posts in the ground, two of them the length of the boat apart, and five of them the separation of the frames apart. The five were set in an arced line about three to four feet away from the line of the two. Laser found the level on all the posts, marked to measure on each where the sheer arc should be. I cut seven trios of 1x3s, one about four inches, one about 12, and one 18. Then I was going to put the smallest piece of wood on the inside of the curve, the middle sized on the outside, and the 18in set vertical. There was(is) a hole at the end of each 18. That way once each assembly wes clamped together I could run a string from each hole to a post, and draw each seven assembly to the seven spots I wanted them to be. (A point about half again further from where I eventually want it to be? Trial till right…)
Gunnels were in the tube a day. The irrigation pipe needed to be sealed, I used silicone in a fancy caulk gun. Here to tell you. Lowes is great, I worked there, best job I’ve had, I still go there twice as often as I do any other store, but I didn’t buy a Lowes gun because I didn’t want a Lowes gun for life. Take the time, get the good tool, you'll love using it every time. And we'll keep those companies alive so others can still get the good tool in ten years. As said I siliconed the joints, but the middle one leaked. I used Flex Tape on the joint and it leaked. I used Gorilla tape on the joint and it stopped.
I tried to get the gunnels to soak in the irrigation pipe vertical. The whole point of this jig is so weird twists don't start. I clamped them together: I didn't want any twist to develop they weren’t both a party to. One might bend wrong but if the other bends twice as right, you might get it to work. I set one end of the piping on a sawhorse to hold it up in the air. When I slid gunnels in, they flopped 30deg to one side. Twist back to straight they hold for a moment then flop the opposite 30deg. The way weight in the water held some by gunnels wanted to set, was off at that angle.
So I pulled them back out, stacked them so the 30deg arc sent them in the direction I want them to get to, and put them back in.
That was about 24hrs ago. When I pulled them out to check on them this afternoon, they looked just how I want them to.
Well, instead of that jig, they'll just dry on the boat!
Therefore I delayed a week and a half to get a good gun, and cut the same off an estimated three week delay on the normal schedule. That being at least a week in the water and a week drying in shape.
Put them on at the same time, work side to side, so one doesn't bend the assembling frame one way or the other. I start in the middle so the gunnel stays balanced in place, then work towards the ends using same principal as massaging out bubbles under tape.
Clamped up, they fit pretty good. Right now they want to lift up the fifth frame, and they all need torsional twist at their ends. But I'm going to let them dry how they are. In a few days they might get another half day in the water, or maybe get three, but I’ll twist just the ends till we’re in agreement on how to go.
A tool to help that along is in the planning stages, I might make it just to show it even if I don’t need it like the post jig. For right now she’s not putting much strain to the frames while looking pretty good with a lot of hull rocker.
Guess that could be good for a river going rowboat.



Straight so far.

If anything else, I’d like to contribute these 1mm cotton cords to the world of SoF boat building methods. Pretty much everybody always uses zip ties. One time use pieces of plastic that are tricky to use, have sharp corners that dent the wood we’re working with, and did I mention one time ever use. These cotton cords are on their second boat, and on the first boat they were many of them used five or more times.
Skin on frame boats, they come together their own way. There isn’t enough force on any one component to hold them as you go, but what that does is open up the chance to make an extraordinarily light boat to an extraordinarily perfect shape. If you could take a plank on frame boat apart a few times before it was done and have a second go at shaping each plank, each component could be much lighter as the boat held it together in steps. Here one has an opportunity to make a much straighter, truer boat to a great shape, worked to shape gradually.
Then too, these cords bring the boat together really easily. You can draw them in tighter than zip ties, you can also relax the same one back out if you need. I think they’re easier to latch: it’s just a square knot, already done it more than any other I know. And how many of you boat builders ever set one in on the wrong X, and wished you could have them all the same?
I call this a Rectangle Knot, it probably already exists somewhere. It’s a square knot with an extra twist.
That extra twist on the set up lets that knot hold in place on it’s own while you get set for the second step. Maybe a pinky there to remind it, but once softened up they’re holding well on their own now. Then that Rectangle has a big ol hole to stick an ice pick in, to work them all back out later. So stuck in a box and used for all kinds of projects, till three years later on another boat.

After drying in place for 24hrs, third (middle) frame was not compressed at all, and first (fore) frame was half an inch narrower than specs. I slid gunnels back in the tube overnight. Removed battens, re-trued frames to level and straight, reinstalled gunnels this morning. I reduced the stem extension beyond the first frame an inch and stuck a spreader clamp at the last frame, to increase the bend during drying beyond the future intended arc. The stem has one loop pulling the sides together, stem and stern each have a loop around strongback holding them down. Plus their ceiling strings.





Right now looks pretty good, true to plans. Even before the cords holding ends down, the fifth (aft) frame did not want to pop up four inches like last time. If that's where she wants to go though, that's where she'll get to go. I'll increase keel rocker by an eyeball gauge of the difference between planned and actual hull rocker, ease center thwart back a bit to trim her aft some, and she'll be a river version of a bay boat with finer entry and exit angles.