Used MNII from a BWCA outfitter.

[JeremyA]

I'm considering making a long drive up to MN to buy a boat. I was wondering if anyone could give me their opinion on the apparent condition and if there is anything I should look out for. This particular boat is 6 years old and does not have any repairs, but it does have significant wear. They're asking $1250 and firm on the price. I appreciate any advice, thanks!

 

[yellowcanoe]

Looks great inside. Horrid outside.. Hard to tell but some of the fabric might be exposed. My 2 cents is they are asking too much. Use that as a tool if you can.. It is possible for you to restore the bottom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3jHsboMO3I&feature=channel

http://bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=forum.thread&threadId=243443&forumID=15&confID=1

 

[Iskweo]

I think I would take a pass on that one. It looks to have been used pretty hard. Sure it is fixable, and lord knows we fix some horrid old canoes, but that is a $500-$600 boat in that condition. Look around some more.

 

[Alan Gage]

I don't know that the price is that out of line considering the market. Those are a hot commodity in the upper midwest. Whether or not it's worth it is up to you. Hard to tell from the pictures but it doesn't look too bad to me.

Alan

 

[JeremyA]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I wish it were closer to take a look in person. An older Mad River Lamoille in Kevlar just popped up this morning and it's much closer to me. It looks to be in nice shape and they only want $500 for it. Not as light as the MNII, but still under 60lbs and the price and location are a lot more attractive.

 

[dogbrain]

There are lots of outfitters up there with used boats for sale, so if you're heading that way why not shop around before you buy that boat. The bottom is certainly scratched up, but it's hard to tell from the photos if the outer skin is oxidized, but it might just be the light. I'd ask for some closeup photos of those dull areas between the scratches. The boat next to it is certainly a $500 boat. I would ask if it has been stored outside in the sun its entire life. I looked on Piragis website and they're selling last years MNII's for $1800, so this may not be a bad deal.

Mark

 

[JeremyA]

Thanks Mark. I did contact several other outfitters in the area and they mostly ranged from $1550-$1800, albeit for newer boats than this one, so that sounds about right.

 

[Canotrouge]

I'm not in the US, bot the price seem about right. And really from what I can see those boats look in decent shape. But again, value of used stuff is worth what people are willing to pay for!! I have an old dagger caption that I could sell in my neck of the wood for $2000

 

[Guest]

An older Mad River Lamoille in Kevlar just popped up this morning and it's much closer to me. It looks to be in nice shape and they only want $500 for it. Not as light as the MNII, but still under 60lbs and the price and location are a lot more attractive.

If it is at all convenient I’d go have a look at the Lamoille. Outfitter boats are used hard and frequently. $500 for a good condition Lamoille is a steal, and the extra $750 would easily pay for some high end paddles and gear.

If it helps:

Min II
Length 18 feet 6 inches
Width 35 inches (less at the waterline)
Depth 20 inches
Weight 42 to 66 lbs (depending on lay up)
Recommended burden 650 lbs


Lamoille
Length 18 feet 4 inches
Width 33 inches
Depth 15 inches
Weight 60 to 75 lbs (depending on lay up)
Recommended burden 650 lbs

I have never seen a poorly constructed Wenonah canoe, but Mad River’s from the Vermont days were excellent build quality.

 

[JeremyA]

Thanks Mike, that's consistent with what I got from Mad River when I called today. At the time this one was made, they were only available in Kevlar and weighed 60lbs This one has had the wooden gunwales and thwarts replaced with aluminum, so I'm guessing it's a couple pounds less than that. If it looks good in person I think this will be a good start for us, at the price I'm sure I will be able to sell it and upgrade in the future if I want to.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Min II

Depth 20 inches

That can't be right, not at the center. It would be an Exxon supertanker.

I wouldn't be interested in such a long and large canoe for any purpose. Bottom scratches aren't that big a deal if they are superficial. But outfitter canoes are used hard. You can usually find better preserved canoes, though usually older, from private owners.

 

[JeremyA]

That can't be right, not at the center. It would be an Exxon supertanker.

I wouldn't be interested in such a long and large canoe for any purpose. Bottom scratches aren't that big a deal if they are superficial. But outfitter canoes are used hard. You can usually find better preserved canoes, though usually older, from private owners.

That appears to be the bow depth, these are the current specs on the MNII:
[FONT=&quot] [h=5]DIMENSIONS[/h] Length

18' 6" (563.88cm)​

Gunwale Width

33.5" (85.09cm)​

Maximum Width

35" (88.9cm)​

Waterline Width

33.5" (85.09cm)​

Stern Depth

17" (43.18cm)​

Center Depth

13.5" (34.29cm)​

Bow Depth

20.5" (52.07cm)​

Rocker

0" (0cm)​

[/FONT]

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Jeremy, I know the topic isn't the type of canoe you want to buy, but I'm curious whether this is your first canoe or an additional one. I ask because, to me, an 18.5' tandem canoe with no rocker is a niche canoe. It's primary purpose would be to carry very large loads on very long trips on big water. It will be at the bottom of the list of maneuverable canoes and would be a beast to paddle solo.

Most people can take average trips just fine in a 17' tandem or even a high volume 16' tandem such as a Mad River Explorer. These shorter tandems will be more maneuverable, more amenable to solo paddling, and lighter in weight.

Of course, if you already have a 16'-17' tandem and are specifically are looking for something bigger, then a Minnesota II or an old MR Lamoille may make size sense.

 

[JeremyA]

Hi Glenn, It will be an additional canoe to our MR Journey 156. I'm looking for something to that will fit our family of four and camping gear, so I don't think it would make sense to go smaller. If it were just the two of us I would definitely be looking at something closer to the 17' range. I am quite new to canoe tripping though, so I appreciate the input

 

[yellowcanoe]

I've got a deeper version of the MN II and we have had it for 25 years. We got it cause we felt cramped in our 15'10" Sawyer 190. And there were just two of us Its done everything from day trips to two day trips to two week trips in Quetico and Lake Superior. Aside from its skittishness when empty ( weight just on the stern and the bow tends to make it torque kind of unsettlingly) with a load it is amazingly stable I have never put four in it. At most its been two of us and a Golden Retreiver

I wouldn't go with it for day trips but in Quetico or Algonquin its 43 lbs is nice. Its a Wenonah Odyssey.
Yes we have done some whitewater with it. Rocker is a drafting convention and what seems like straight keel line might not be. I have been impressed with the turning ability of the Odyssey in moving water but it does give the stern person a wild wide ride.

The reality is that a family of four is going to require careful packing in an 18.5 foot canoe. Kids do not shrink.
the 33 inches of the Lamoile seems too narrow for a family of four..

I fail to see 20 inches of center depth on my Odyssey. The MN II currently has 13.5 which is consistent with my Odyssey ( which has a fuller bow and might be an inch deeper)

https://www.wenonah.com/Canoes.aspx?id=105

 

[Guest]

I fail to see 20 inches of center depth on my Odyssey. The MN II currently has 13.5 which is consistent with my Odyssey ( which has a fuller bow and might be an inch deeper)

My bad. Instead of searching the files for a vintage Mad River catalog containing the Lamoille I just grabbed the specs from a 30 year old Buyers Guide. Those yearly compendiums of every make and model often juxtaposed some number and I suspect the 20 inch for the Min II was a stem height figure.

What surprised me was seeing a “Recommended burden” for a Wenonah canoe. Wenonah usually refuses to list such a number, believing (correctly) that weight capacity is more a function of paddling conditions and paddler skill and judgment.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Mike I recall before we got our Odyssey in the prehistoric ages of 1991 that it was suggested that 650 pounds was a recommended burden. There must have been a low limit too but I don't remember it

 

[Guest]

Mike I recall before we got our Odyssey in the prehistoric ages of 1991 that it was suggested that 650 pounds was a recommended burden. There must have been a low limit too but I don't remember it

In the long ago past Wenonah did list weight limits for their canoes, but ceased to do so for logical reasons. I helped put together the canoe specs for the last Paddler Magazine Buyer’s Guide before the publication folded. In the later iterations of Buyer’s Guides, in both Paddler and in Canoe & Kayak, the weight burden for all Wenonah canoes was listed as NA.

When I contacted Wenonah to review their specs I asked about recommended burden or weight limits, and they explained their stance on such a number being meaningless without consideration of water conditions and paddler skill/experience.

Wenonah’s current catalog, print and on-line, addresses the weight issue in the FAQ’s, without listing any specific number for any given model. See “max capacity for any specific model”

https://www.wenonah.com/Faq.aspx

I agree with Wenonah that this is a more sensible approach, as opposed to a couple of novice paddlers sticking 1100 lbs of weight in an Old Town Tripper and going submarine in lake waves or mild whitewater.

 

[JeremyA]

I picked up the Lamoille last night. The gel coat needs a little attention, but overall it looks pretty good. Also, I got out the tape measure this morning as I found it interesting that several people in different forums commented as to how it was significantly less stable than the MNII due to it being 2" narrower. None of them had actually paddled one of course, and no one who owned one described it as being unstable. As it turns out, the width measures just about the same as the MNII, it's 33" at the gunwales and 35" at the widest. I'll try and get some pics up soon, I'm going to have some questions about seat mounting and the gel coat repair.

 

[yellowcanoe]

It's not the stability it's the volume.
Kids aren't cargo at least not for long
Anyway it fits your needs and paddler skill is as important as boat. If the skill isn't there now, water time is the perfect cure!