Help me pick a tandem

[Punkinhead]

I paddle a solo canoe (Northstar Phoenix) and my wife paddles a kayak. She started kayaking late in life and never became comfortable in moving water. Even class 1 intimidates her and she's had a few dumps that scared her. Because of this her preference is lakes. My strong preference is rivers so I'm thinking a solution might be a tandem canoe. She can use her kayak when we're paddling in lakes or the Gulf and we can paddle a tandem canoe on rivers. I haven't owned a tandem canoe since the 1990's and that was a whitewater boat.

Here's my wish list: This canoe will be for tandem paddling (or me and my 60 lb dog) in class 1 and sometimes 2. We tend to paddle fairly shallow, rocky rivers so scraping is going to happen. I'm not afraid of doing repairs so composite construction is fine. I want it to be relatively short and under 45 lbs since I'll have to portage & rooftop it by myself. Decent primary stability for her comfort. Easy to turn in rapids and narrow rivers. We only do day trips and neither of us are particularly heavy so it doesn't need to be capable of large loads.

We visit our kids in Madison, WI fairly often so brands/models carried by Rutabaga or Carl's are preferred since we don't have a decent outfitter near us. I'd also buy used if something pops up near central Indiana/Illinois.

Suggestions?

 

[ABT]

I’d look really hard at the Northstar Opal. Symmetric rocker, plenty of maneuverability, available in IXP or blacklite HD for the scraping, wide enough the primary should be great, small enough to meet your requirements, seems like it fits most of what you’d want. Likely not the fastest by any stretch on flatwater but HappyPaddlin’s videos on YouTube make it seem like it’s not as slow as you’d think. It’s also got pretty nice lines aesthetically in my opinion.

The Polaris is another option but at almost 17’ long I wouldn’t call it “small”. I also think in IXP it’s over your weight limit, but it may be fine in blacklite. It’s got great primary in my opinion, and really good secondary, but I’ve only had another adult in it with me once. It’s pretty narrow for a tandem so you’d certainly want to test one out to be sure the primary is acceptable with two adults. Usually it’s me solo or with a kid and I think it’s great. It has decent enough maneuverability on Ozark streams even with the length (although noticeably less than a symmetrical boat), and has good tracking for the flats.

Shame that T-formex is going to be out of your weight limit, I’m probably going to be selling my Wenonah Prospector 15 soon. I believe it’s 60 lbs or so unfortunately, but otherwise is similar to the Opal.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

I want it to be relatively short and under 45 lbs

How short? There are a lot of ~15' tandems that would fit this requirement. The Wenonah Heron in the lighter layups, for instance. I wouldn't go shorter than that unless both of you are in the 150 lb and under range and not carrying much gear.

Going with a ~16' canoe opens up a wide range of possibilities. I'd start by looking at the Northstar B16.

 

[dutchlennart]

Go to both places and get paddling. Stability is such a hard thing to advise and compare.
Something short and composite.
Not sure if your wife is a sitter or a kneeler. For a sitter a good footrest helps a lot instability.
Enjoy the search and even more the paddling.

 

[gumpus]

Starfire with 3 seats. Swift can build one for you. Great light tandem, great solo, great dog boat, great on rivers and lakes. Popular for freestyle so maybe that's something you two could enjoy too (just playing around with a few new strokes/moves).

 

[Black_Fly]

I paddle a solo canoe (Northstar Phoenix) and my wife paddles a kayak. She started kayaking late in life and never became comfortable in moving water. Even class 1 intimidates her and she's had a few dumps that scared her. Because of this her preference is lakes. My strong preference is rivers so I'm thinking a solution might be a tandem canoe. She can use her kayak when we're paddling in lakes or the Gulf and we can paddle a tandem canoe on rivers. I haven't owned a tandem canoe since the 1990's and that was a whitewater boat.

Here's my wish list: This canoe will be for tandem paddling (or me and my 60 lb dog) in class 1 and sometimes 2. We tend to paddle fairly shallow, rocky rivers so scraping is going to happen. I'm not afraid of doing repairs so composite construction is fine. I want it to be relatively short and under 45 lbs since I'll have to portage & rooftop it by myself. Decent primary stability for her comfort. Easy to turn in rapids and narrow rivers. We only do day trips and neither of us are particularly heavy so it doesn't need to be capable of large loads.

We visit our kids in Madison, WI fairly often so brands/models carried by Rutabaga or Carl's are preferred since we don't have a decent outfitter near us. I'd also buy used if something pops up near central Indiana/Illinois.

Suggestions?

A few days ago, Rutabaga had an Esquif Prospecteur 15, which could be ideal for you, on sale for $1899. It’s a T-formex hull (60#). I’d hurry though.

It’s still there. Great hull for tandem or solo. I’ve had 3 prospectors, 2 15-footers. If you’re larger people, a 16’ might be best with a dog.

 

[dutchlennart]

About th polaris
A couple of friends have 1. They look better in thah then in any boat they previously had. Blacklite makes then very comfortable of the water. They are not young anymore . They have expiriance in paddling expeditions and dya trips for decades. They came to the conclusion that this will be their last one.
What is so good stability and glide. And still easy to turn.

 

[Punkinhead]

I ran across the video below where Northstar is introducing a new lamination called BlackHD that is somewhere between Blacklight and IXP to make it more appropriate for river running without the full weight penalty of IXP. For 2026 they are only offering it in their solo canoes. I was leaning towards a Northstar Opal as a tandem but I don't want the weight of IXP. My Phoenix is IXP and at 40 lbs it's light enough for me to haul around and cartop solo but the Opal is 57 lbs in IXP which is more than I want to carry. This canoe will be used almost exclusively in rocky rivers where IXP would shine but I value light weight too much to go for it. BlackHD would be a great compromise for me if they offered it in tandems.

In the video he mentions that there are plenty of manufacturers that already offer a lamination similar to BlackHD. What manufacturers and laminations do you think he's talking about? What are good laminations for river running that I should be looking at? Or am I overthinking it? We'll be running rocky moving water but not whitewater. Maybe Blacklight is fine if I'm reasonably careful.

 

[OxbowJay]

Following.

 

[Punkinhead]

How would a Nova Craft Pal fit the requirements in my original post?

 

[dutchlennart]

Much more primary stable compared to the polaris. Less glide. I have paddled both briefly and years in between. So it is not great to compare. I think if the conditions are poor i rahter do the polaris. Main thing will be get togehter in some boats buy 1. Put a decent amount of time in it. Maybe some coaching can help a lot.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

In the video he mentions that there are plenty of manufacturers that already offer a lamination similar to BlackHD. What manufacturers and laminations do you think he's talking about?

Maybe, Nova Craft's Blue Steel? Probably Swift, but I'm not sure which layup.

A Polaris in Black HD sounds like a pretty safe bet.... when they get around to it. I count five kevlar canoes here from as many different brands though, and while I'm not bashing any of them broadside on rocks, three of them get an occasional glancing blow without any more than cosmetic damage. The kevlar Wenonah Moccasin I bought last year came with the exact damage in the chines Bear talks about. But it wasn't enough to leak, and the PO simply duct taped over it and kept paddling it that way. I cleaned it up and did a proper repair - which was cheap and easy. I'm pretty much over worrying about that kind of damage in kevlar canoes on class 2 and under. I would think a carbon/kevlar or other such hybrid would be every bit as good or better.

 

[Punkinhead]

I agree that I'm probably overthinking layup. Other than my Phoenix I haven't owned a composite canoe or kayak since the 80s. Back then all we had were fiberglass and kevlar and we didn't worry about it. We enjoyed the boats, avoided hitting rocks, and repaired the damage when needed. And most of the damage was from scraping - not impacts. All these newer options have me worrying about something we never used to think about.

 

[Gamma1214]

Personally, I don't know much about commercial boats but I've always thought that lay-up was more a function of achieving a desired weight than increasing durability (besides, of course, the marketing aspects). Build a canoe out of high carbon steel and it'll (probably) still end poorly if you wrap it in a large rapid.

I have some 50 year old glass canoes that I treat more gently than I do my strippers but that's just because it's old glass and, like old(ish) me, it's probably not as resilient as it once was.

I've found that I'm more likely to crack a hull getting in or out (like high-centered in a class 2) than actually hitting rocks.

 

[tketcham]

I've always thought that lay-up was more a function of achieving a desired weight than increasing durability (besides, of course, the marketing aspects).

I think those two factors plus cost are considered with each build but one or the other gets priority, at least that's what I consider when shopping for a canoe. And look at how many canoes with durable but heavy layups are sold, where weight wasn't the priority. I used to own a heavy-duty Kevlar river tripping canoe that weighed almost 70 lbs. You could hit it with a ballpeen hammer, but it wasn't fun portaging 3mi./5km. If I'd had a less durable but much lighter canoe it would have been fine on that trip. Weight was an unnecessary cost of insurance. We leap-frogged with some well-seasoned Canadians that were doing the same route with lightweight Kevlar downriver canoes.

Repairability can also be a consideration; a little additional weight (no foam) in order to easily fix a hit. Those downriver canoes we saw in Canada did not have foam cores but were built to be lightweight and repairable. I thought twice about having a foam core bottom in my Blacklite Firebird but wanted the lighter build, so hopefully I'll never need to have the foam core repaired.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

I wonder how often anyone suffers core damage in a composite hull. All the significant damage I've ever seen personally has been stems and chines.

 

[Neophyte]

I have the Northstar Trillium in blacklite. I take it down rivers with mild rapids (1+ at most probably), and it’s definitely taken some scrapes and dings on rocks. For what it’s worth I think it’s probably more durable than it’s weight would imply. But an email/call to Northstar might be your best bet.

I have found most of the scrapes at the front and back, so skid plates may be worth considering if you go for blacklite.

 

[lowangle al]

My Bell Seliga is the lighter layup,( starlight?) and I agree that it is more durable then it's weight would imply. I'm ok with it in white water as long as I can keep my speed down. So far it seems ok with low impact collisions with rocks as long as they aren't sharp and pointy. If I took it out on some pushy water with bigger drops I would think a collision with a rock would break the hull. I'm not saying I would never push my luck, I would just carry more duct tape.

 

[tketcham]

I wonder how often anyone suffers core damage in a composite hull. All the significant damage I've ever seen personally has been stems and chines.

Perhaps true but the foam core in my Firebird wraps up into the chine of the hull and a bad hit right at the margin of the foam might cause some tricky damage to repair. Just speculation on my part and I hope to keep it that way.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Perhaps true but the foam core in my Firebird wraps up into the chine of the hull and a bad hit right at the margin of the foam might cause some tricky damage to repair. Just speculation on my part and I hope to keep it that way.

The damage on my Moccasin was right on the edge of the core. Didn't seem to me like a difficult repair. What I wonder about is damage that is under the core where the inside of the outer shell is inaccessible.

Anyway, it's just a question.