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What does a Old Town PACK look like with wood?
- Thread starter Larry650
- Start date
I always wanted to try that, just to see how much weight you could trim off without those big vinyl gunnels. What did you end up at weight-wise?
G
Guest
Guest
Larry, if, like the deck plates, the OEM gunwales were Old Town’s vintage white/cream vinyl going to wood was a good call.
I’ve worked on a couple of early Old Town Royalex canoes with those white gunwales and in every case they were brittle and prone to cracking/breaking. I don’t think it was just age, I have similar vintage RX canoes with the more familiar black vinyl gunwales and those are still sound.
I suspect those white OT gunwales were more susceptible to UV degredation.
BTW, you did not list an asking price in your classified.
I’ve worked on a couple of early Old Town Royalex canoes with those white gunwales and in every case they were brittle and prone to cracking/breaking. I don’t think it was just age, I have similar vintage RX canoes with the more familiar black vinyl gunwales and those are still sound.
I suspect those white OT gunwales were more susceptible to UV degredation.
BTW, you did not list an asking price in your classified.
Matt,
I don't have a good way to weigh the Pack, but I did saw one gunnel up into foot long pieces and weigh it at the post office. It was a whooping 4 lbs 15 ozs.
Also, when the gunnels were removed both of them were loaded with things like sand, silt, bugs, etc. Those hollow plastic gunnels can pick up unwanted weight over time.
This whole project started only because I just wanted to move the seat forward. I got carried away and did everything.
Hello Mike,
You are correct, the old gunnels were a bit brittle. After I removed the gunnels they were left outside in the sun and after six months or so they were even more brittle. They also turned dark from the sun exposure. The old deck plates were white and rather large and heavy. I tossed them out with the seat which was also white, large and heavy, and made new deck plates out of fiberglass, which are much lighter and smaller than the old ones. But the old deck plates were also carry handles so new carry handles were made of ash.
This canoe was originally yellow not green, so I stayed with yellow for hull color. I found a picture in an old REI ad of this yellow Pack canoe, so Old Town did make a few yellow ones. The paint is good old Rustoleum with a hardener. Four parts Gloss Sunburst Yellow to one part Gloss Beige, as the yellow is too bright right out of the can. Shot with a Harbor Freight paint gun. It will be easy and cheap to re-do or touch up if it ever needs it.
You have done a couple of these Royalex canoes? You have my respect, sir. This thing was a LOT of work.
That is the best looking OT Pack I’ve ever seen. Great restore!
G
Guest
Guest
Second that, the world's prettiest Pack.
Larry, can you still read the HIN? Curious as to what year it is.
Matt,
Nope, it was a long ago heat baked piece of plastic Dynamo tape. However, embossed into the hull is this: "197616" on the outside of the hull and directly opposite but inside, the logo "Old Town" is embossed.
If the numbers mean anything, maybe the 16th week of 1976? In that case maybe it's a Bicentennial canoe.
I wish I knew the year too, but that's all I have for info, sorry.
Larry, Did you take a picture of the canoe before you started? I have a suspicion it might be a OT Chipewyan Pack, which were available in yellow and weighed slightly more at 37 to 42 pounds depending on the year. The thickness of the exposed edge of the Royalex on your pics seems greater than the later Packs. It might also explain why the serial number does not contain the 'XTC' identifier for Old Town. If it is a Chipewyan, it is a rare boat indeed, as I only seen one other come up for sale in the last 5 years.
So sad that Larry and the boat are in Arizona. If the boat is what Matt C thinks ( and I have never seen a Pack in other than green and I do know OT was using yellow back in the 70's and '80s)
I think HIN;s came into being in 1972. Whether they were standardized from the get go I have no idea. Usually I think Packs would be in the $500 range but this one does deserve $849 . Even though I hate flat seats I would get it were we in AZ now.
I think HIN;s came into being in 1972. Whether they were standardized from the get go I have no idea. Usually I think Packs would be in the $500 range but this one does deserve $849 . Even though I hate flat seats I would get it were we in AZ now.
G
Guest
Guest
The two early RX Old Towns I worked on with those UV degraded white gunwales were badged Chipewyan, although dimensionally both were identical to (later badged) Campers. It has been a long time but I think one of those was yellow.
I passed on a third busted to heck Chipewyan, but when I realized it was only miles from Chip’s home and, IIRC, free, suggested he pick it up and repair it.
It was worth every penny he paid for it, and I’m not sure he ever forgave me.
That might be another clue, Larry, as the Chipewyan Pack seat was placed farther to the stern than later Pack's as you might be able to see from this catalogue pic.
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Hi Matt,
Yes I think you are right. My boat must be that early style. I'm impressed how knowledgeable you are about old Old Town canoes! So yes the white plastic seat was far to the rear just as the picture shows. It was also attached right to the gunnel. And just one thwart. The hull is 3/8" thick, except near the ends where it goes up to 1/2". Yep I think you nailed it!
Yes I think you are right. My boat must be that early style. I'm impressed how knowledgeable you are about old Old Town canoes! So yes the white plastic seat was far to the rear just as the picture shows. It was also attached right to the gunnel. And just one thwart. The hull is 3/8" thick, except near the ends where it goes up to 1/2". Yep I think you nailed it!
Certainly no expert, just did some research on the evolution of the Pack awhile ago. I still cannot understand how they command the price they do, but you can't argue with the statistics or the continued demand. Good luck on the sale; maybe including the history will peak some added interest.
Speaking of white seats and gunnels, this is on craigslist here locally.
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/spo/d/mesa-beautiful-baby-blue-old-town-canoe/7328897135.html
G
Guest
Guest
Thanks Matt, I like that link to the OT Chipewayns. Having only ever seen Chipewyan 16’s I mistakenly thought that was the model name for what later became badged as the Camper.
https://www.canoetripping.net/forums/forum/general-paddling-discussions/general-discussion/125607-what-does-a-old-town-pack-look-like-with-wood?p=125672#post125672
Both the Chipewyans I worked on, and I think Chip’s as well, were 16’s, essentially identical in dimensions to the OT Camper, with the Chipewyan speced at 6lbs heavier. Thick old-school Royalex all the way to the sheerline.
The later badged just “Pack” is comparatively speced very close, at 1” longer and 1” shallower, and again 4lbs heavier.
The OT Trippers are dimensionally identical, but the later versions oddly weight 6lbs more per spec. Maybe OT finally got an accurate scale.
The Chipewyan 14 became the OT Hunter, with identical dimensions.
http://a-drifting-cowboy.blogspot.com/2016/04/12-pack-14-hunter-discontinued-old-town.html
The Hunter was a neat little sport canoe, halfway between the shorter Pack and longer Pathfinder, which replaced it in Old Town’s canoe line.
https://www.canoetripping.net/forums/forum/general-paddling-discussions/general-discussion/125607-what-does-a-old-town-pack-look-like-with-wood?p=125672#post125672
Both the Chipewyans I worked on, and I think Chip’s as well, were 16’s, essentially identical in dimensions to the OT Camper, with the Chipewyan speced at 6lbs heavier. Thick old-school Royalex all the way to the sheerline.
The later badged just “Pack” is comparatively speced very close, at 1” longer and 1” shallower, and again 4lbs heavier.
The OT Trippers are dimensionally identical, but the later versions oddly weight 6lbs more per spec. Maybe OT finally got an accurate scale.
The Chipewyan 14 became the OT Hunter, with identical dimensions.
http://a-drifting-cowboy.blogspot.com/2016/04/12-pack-14-hunter-discontinued-old-town.html
The Hunter was a neat little sport canoe, halfway between the shorter Pack and longer Pathfinder, which replaced it in Old Town’s canoe line.
